Kyler Murray, you will become a Cardinal. It is....

[dscher]

Yes - it could happen again, but, at best the data says - once in the next 20 Super Bowls.

(There are no exceptions to rules. If there's an exception then it's not a rule).

If all rules have exceptions then even the rule that states that all rules have exceptions must have an exception, or the rule is proven false.

But if it does have an exception the rule is also proven false, because then there is a rule without an exception, which is what the rule is saying cannot exist.

Nerd alert! Lol.

 

[DVontel]

LOL I was kidding, but my point is perfect counter point.

Only one sub 6 foot QB has started during that time frame and he has been to two Super Bowls.

How do you feel about Dawson Knox in the 3rd round?

It’ll be controversial to a lot of people on this board, but with the situation he was in he’ll have a lot more success in the league than in college. Especially with his tools. Doubt he’ll make it to our 4th.

 

[gamebird98]

Just heard Carson Palmer say he would draft Murray because he looks to be the best player in the draft and you have to take advantage of having the first pick... no Carson no, I like you man lol

Carson took a lot of hits late in his career.....beginning to show the signs.

 

[Chopper0080]

You could argue that he DOES have rose colored glasses in favor of Rosen.

The analytics for Rosen are startling. He was the next to worst QB even when all variables were good. Outside of a few NFL caliber throws and pedigree, there is literally nothing to be excited about.

I disagree that Murray didnt make many NFL throws. He didnt have to often, but you can find examples of difficult throws in tight coverage.

I think one of the biggest draws to Murray is that we have already seen someone play in the same offense succeed in the NFL at a high level. Mayfield is a better thrower, but not by much, and Murray is a substantially better athlete.

I think one of the biggest drawbacks for Murray is that he has never really overcome adversity.

He committed to Texas A&M, but was beaten out for the starting job by Kyle Allen. Allen was benched with the games to go and then Kyle got the start. However, instead of competing again for the starting job the following spring, he transfers to Oklahoma. There, he isn't good enough to beat out Baker Mayfield and has to wait for him to graduate in order to start. Once he does get the opportunity to start he does very well behind the best offensive line in college football until he meets an Alabama team that has more talent. There Kyler struggles every time the game is close. He bombs a Dan Patrick interview that he should have been prepared for. He chooses not to compete at the combine. He then chooses not to run at his pro day.

Tell me if this sounds like the resume of a future NFL QB? He wasn't Tom Brady beating oiut Drew Henson. He wasn't Russell Wilson who transferred and beat out the incumbent at Wisconsin. He even transferred to Oklahoma with Mayfield already there which means he knew what his competition was going to be.

Where is the evidence that Kyler is the world class competitor he needs to be to overcome his size and experience limitations?

 

[Chopper0080]

I bolded 2 parts. Both have already been disproven.

The Alabama game may have been his best night in college football. No turnovers and well over 400 yards of total offense by him alone.

Heck.... the back shoulder throws to CeeDee Lamb in the game show the type timing and rhythm throws he is capable of.

Here is a link to a no frills no thrills honest look at his talents. I think you may be surprised if you actually give it an honest shot.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Vs Alabama, here are the facts.

First drive, down 7.
Scramble.
Sack.
Sack.
Punt.

2nd Drive, down 14.
Scramble.
RB run.
Incomplete pass.
RB run.
Incomplete pass.
Punt.

3rd Drive, down 21.
Completion.
RB run.
Scramble.
Incomplete pass.
Incomplete pass.

Once the game is out of reach, and Alabama starts to play a more conservative defense is when Kyler turned it on. In the NFL those are called garbage time stats.

I can add the word consistently if you really feel it is needed. Murray has shown at times that he can throw with timing in rhythm, but he has never shown to consistently be a timing and rhythm QB. That was why his pro day was constructed to be all from under center so that it would help alleviate this concern.

 

[Chopper0080]

Now, here is what I will say. If the Cardinals are so committed to drafting their future QB that they are willing to take Murray and have him compete with Rosen...I can live with that. But for anyone to argue that Murray does not have a HUGE risk of being a bust is being a little naive. There is no world that I see where picking Murray is worth trading Rosen for pennies on the dollar. That is a move, IMO, that will lead the Cardinals back to their vintage pre-Warner dysfunction status because there are so many ways that Murray fails in the NFL.

 

[BW52]

Now, here is what I will say. If the Cardinals are so committed to drafting their future QB that they are willing to take Murray and have him compete with Rosen...I can live with that. But for anyone to argue that Murray does not have a HUGE risk of being a bust is being a little naive. There is no world that I see where picking Murray is worth trading Rosen for pennies on the dollar. That is a move, IMO, that will lead the Cardinals back to their vintage pre-Warner dysfunction status because there are so many ways that Murray fails in the NFL.

 

[juza76]

Vs Alabama, here are the facts.

First drive, down 7.
Scramble.
Sack.
Sack.
Punt.

2nd Drive, down 14.
Scramble.
RB run.
Incomplete pass.
RB run.
Incomplete pass.
Punt.

3rd Drive, down 21.
Completion.
RB run.
Scramble.
Incomplete pass.
Incomplete pass.

Once the game is out of reach, and Alabama starts to play a more conservative defense is when Kyler turned it on. In the NFL those are called garbage time stats.

I can add the word consistently if you really feel it is needed. Murray has shown at times that he can throw with timing in rhythm, but he has never shown to consistently be a timing and rhythm QB. That was why his pro day was constructed to be all from under center so that it would help alleviate this concern.

Yes but Rosen can't even put adequate numbers with prevent defense and when the game doesnt have much to give
Murray didnt have much to do the first 3 series but then the offense adjusted a bit and he started to make plays, they got closer wirh the score, just the defense wasnt able to give murray a chance to tie the game
Alabama defense was aggressive the whole game but Murray found a way to make big plays versus a defense that normally doesnt give any chance

 

[Chopper0080]

Yes but Rosen can't even put adequate numbers with prevent defense and when the game doesnt have much to give
Murray didnt have much to do the first 3 series but then the offense adjusted a bit and he started to make plays, they got closer wirh the score, just the defense wasnt able to give murray a chance to tie the game
Alabama defense was aggressive the whole game but Murray found a way to make big plays versus a defense that normally doesnt give any chance

Garbage time stats with one of the best supporting offensive casts in college football and one of the top offensive minds. In perfect conditions, he struggled. In the absolute worse conditions at a higher level, Josh Rosen struggled. And Rosen is only 6 months older.

Rosen didn't look to his dad in pre-draft interviews when he was younger than Murray was when he went on the Dan Patrick show.

Rosen didn't transfer when he had to compete with another QB as a true freshman, he won the job and then held onto it for two more years.

We have years and years of evidence showing Rosen having to deal with adversity and him not backing down from it. I don't have any evidence of Murray doing it. And that is pretty important as adversity is something Arizona QBs are going to face.

 

[dscher]

I think one of the biggest drawbacks for Murray is that he has never really overcome adversity.

He committed to Texas A&M, but was beaten out for the starting job by Kyle Allen. Allen was benched with the games to go and then Kyle got the start. However, instead of competing again for the starting job the following spring, he transfers to Oklahoma. There, he isn't good enough to beat out Baker Mayfield and has to wait for him to graduate in order to start. Once he does get the opportunity to start he does very well behind the best offensive line in college football until he meets an Alabama team that has more talent. There Kyler struggles every time the game is close. He bombs a Dan Patrick interview that he should have been prepared for. He chooses not to compete at the combine. He then chooses not to run at his pro day.

Tell me if this sounds like the resume of a future NFL QB? He wasn't Tom Brady beating oiut Drew Henson. He wasn't Russell Wilson who transferred and beat out the incumbent at Wisconsin. He even transferred to Oklahoma with Mayfield already there which means he knew what his competition was going to be.

Where is the evidence that Kyler is the world class competitor he needs to be to overcome his size and experience limitations?

Any evidence of Rosens ability to overcome adversity and become world class? Serious question. Personally, I don't fault a guy for finding a more suitable situation for himself. Maybe that is what he choose to do. Oklahoma was also a national power that put him in the spotlight. Seems like it could work out for him. Also, alot of variables that we really can't assume either under the surface that we can't see with our eyeballs. Jmo

 

[Ohcrap75]

Now, here is what I will say. If the Cardinals are so committed to drafting their future QB that they are willing to take Murray and have him compete with Rosen...I can live with that. But for anyone to argue that Murray does not have a HUGE risk of being a bust is being a little naive. There is no world that I see where picking Murray is worth trading Rosen for pennies on the dollar. That is a move, IMO, that will lead the Cardinals back to their vintage pre-Warner dysfunction status because there are so many ways that Murray fails in the NFL.

Preach!!

 

[Chopper0080]

Any evidence of Rosens ability to overcome adversity and become world class? Serious question. Personally, I don't fault a guy for finding a more suitable situation for himself. Maybe that is what he choose to do. Oklahoma was also a national power that put him in the spotlight. Seems like it could work out for him. Also, alot of variables that we really can't assume either under the surface that we can't see with our eyeballs. Jmo

You mean other than being drafted #10 despite having a different OC every year on a bad UCLA roster? Other than beating out a 3 year player for the starting spot as a true freshman? Other than his handling of the pre-draft questions about his privileged upbringing? Other than taking ownership in press conferences last year when everyone knew he was playing with a losing hand and under an incompetent coaching staff? Other than his performances against SFx2, Seattle, Green Bay, and Oakland? There is a valid argument that without a cowardly coaching staff, Rosen would have been 5-8 as a starter last year. That is without even playing at a high level due to awful circumstances.

 

[juza76]

Garbage time stats with one of the best supporting offensive casts in college football and one of the top offensive minds. In perfect conditions, he struggled. In the absolute worse conditions at a higher level, Josh Rosen struggled. And Rosen is only 6 months older.

Rosen didn't look to his dad in pre-draft interviews when he was younger than Murray was when he went on the Dan Patrick show.

Rosen didn't transfer when he had to compete with another QB as a true freshman, he won the job and then held onto it for two more years.

We have years and years of evidence showing Rosen having to deal with adversity and him not backing down from it. I don't have any evidence of Murray doing it. And that is pretty important as adversity is something Arizona QBs are going to face.

Biased opinion
The offensive line played poorly almost the whole game, and OU offensive line is far from being the best
They lost 1vs1 with Alabama pass rushers almost the whole game, just his mobility allowed him to make something happen

If u want to use that game to detract Murray talent u wrong, cause the game last 60 min and he played good following the 3 series and Alabama didn't play any soft defense

 

[dscher]

You mean other than being drafted #10 despite having a different OC every year on a bad UCLA roster? Other than beating out a 3 year player for the starting spot as a true freshman? Other than his handling of the pre-draft questions about his privileged upbringing? Other than taking ownership in press conferences last year when everyone knew he was playing with a losing hand and under an incompetent coaching staff? Other than his performances against SFx2, Seattle, Green Bay, and Oakland? There is a valid argument that without a cowardly coaching staff, Rosen would have been 5-8 as a starter last year. That is without even playing at a high level due to awful circumstances.

Thanks for that. It's good perspective and I agree. Those are definitely positives. But being a high level world class athlete is different. I have never argued against him not being able to possess the qualities of a pretty good QB. I just don't see a world class prospect and QB in him...where I see that possibility in Murray. Key word, possibility. That just makes him worth it to me. Jmo

 

[iLLmatiC]

Mods, we can lock the thread now? Chopper just went in with no regard for human life.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I think one of the biggest drawbacks for Murray is that he has never really overcome adversity.

He committed to Texas A&M, but was beaten out for the starting job by Kyle Allen. Allen was benched with the games to go and then Kyle got the start. However, instead of competing again for the starting job the following spring, he transfers to Oklahoma. There, he isn't good enough to beat out Baker Mayfield and has to wait for him to graduate in order to start. Once he does get the opportunity to start he does very well behind the best offensive line in college football until he meets an Alabama team that has more talent. There Kyler struggles every time the game is close. He bombs a Dan Patrick interview that he should have been prepared for. He chooses not to compete at the combine. He then chooses not to run at his pro day.

Tell me if this sounds like the resume of a future NFL QB? He wasn't Tom Brady beating oiut Drew Henson. He wasn't Russell Wilson who transferred and beat out the incumbent at Wisconsin. He even transferred to Oklahoma with Mayfield already there which means he knew what his competition was going to be.

Where is the evidence that Kyler is the world class competitor he needs to be to overcome his size and experience limitations?

All very valid points.

 

[Ronin]

Darren Urban (@Cardschatter)
3/25/19, 11:49 AM
Larry Fitzgerald, asked for his thoughts on the ⁦‪@AZCardinals‬⁩ QB situation and the Kyler Murray speculation: "That's above my paygrade."

 

[Veer]

And there is a reason there haven`t been a bunch of little short QBs in the NFL.Once again you are wanting the exception rather than the rule.

In years past, a player of Murray's size wouldn't even have been considered at QB by the boldest college coaches. I'm not even talking about NFL circles.

Bottom line, if he can play ball, 1 or 2 inches don't matter. Accuracy, athleticism and being smart avoiding unnecessary hits is all he needs - and guess what: Murray has all these things! If he fails, it won't be because of size, even if pundits would state it that way.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Biased opinion
The offensive line played poorly almost the whole game, and OU offensive line is far from being the best
They lost 1vs1 with Alabama pass rushers almost the whole game, just his mobility allowed him to make something happen

If u want to use that game to detract Murray talent u wrong, cause the game last 60 min and he played good following the 3 series and Alabama didn't play any soft defense

Johnny Football v number #1 ranked Alabama

5 passing TDs - 464 yds.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Darren Urban (@Cardschatter)
3/25/19, 11:49 AM
Larry Fitzgerald, asked for his thoughts on the ⁦‪@AZCardinals‬⁩ QB situation and the Kyler Murray speculation: "That's above my paygrade."

Last I checked, Larry, KK and SK don't take home more than you.

 

[ARZCardinals]

I think one of the biggest drawbacks for Murray is that he has never really overcome adversity.

He committed to Texas A&M, but was beaten out for the starting job by Kyle Allen. Allen was benched with the games to go and then Kyle got the start. However, instead of competing again for the starting job the following spring, he transfers to Oklahoma. There, he isn't good enough to beat out Baker Mayfield and has to wait for him to graduate in order to start. Once he does get the opportunity to start he does very well behind the best offensive line in college football until he meets an Alabama team that has more talent. There Kyler struggles every time the game is close. He bombs a Dan Patrick interview that he should have been prepared for. He chooses not to compete at the combine. He then chooses not to run at his pro day.

Tell me if this sounds like the resume of a future NFL QB? He wasn't Tom Brady beating oiut Drew Henson. He wasn't Russell Wilson who transferred and beat out the incumbent at Wisconsin. He even transferred to Oklahoma with Mayfield already there which means he knew what his competition was going to be.

Where is the evidence that Kyler is the world class competitor he needs to be to overcome his size and experience limitations?

Funny how you don't mention is
47-0 High School resume
or
3 State Championships
or
Heisman
or
Highest QB Rating EVER in college football
or
6 College records broken in one year
or
Only 4 batted balls by the D line ...the lowest in all of college football
or
ZERO off the field issues

Keep up the hate...but if you can't get behind Murray there isn't a QB in your lifetime you'll ever get behind. Name one other QB with his numbers throwing OR running. He's a once in a lifetime player. You can't name one QB ever to come out who was the best thrower (proven by stats) and runner (proven by stats) ever.

The hate for Murray is ridiculous

 

[BW52]

In years past, a player of Murray's size wouldn't even have been considered at QB by the boldest college coaches. I'm not even talking about NFL circles.

Bottom line, if he can play ball, 1 or 2 inches don't matter. Accuracy, athleticism and being smart avoiding unnecessary hits is all he needs - and guess what: Murray has all these things! If he fails, it won't be because of size, even if pundits would state it that way.

Guess what.......you are simply speculating and hoping because you don't know jacksquat about how Murray will translate to the NFL.You Murray fanboys keep saying Murray will be the exception to the rule .I will take history on my side because ofist of small QB who have been successful is such a long list.NOT.

 

[BW52]

Funny how you don't mention is
47-0 High School resume
or
3 State Championships
or
Heisman
or
Highest QB Rating EVER in college football
or
6 College records broken in one year
or
Only 4 batted balls by the D line ...the lowest in all of college football
or
ZERO off the field issues

Keep up the hate...but if you can't get behind Murray there isn't a QB in your lifetime you'll ever get behind. Name one other QB with his numbers throwing OR running. He's a once in a lifetime player. You can't name one QB ever to come out who was the best thrower (proven by stats) and runner (proven by stats) ever.

The hate for Murray is ridiculous

Once again for those who think Not wanting Murray is hate.Get a freaking clue .People are allowed to have a different opinion from from the Murray fan club.

 

[ARZCardinals]

Vs Alabama, here are the facts.

First drive, down 7.
Scramble.
Sack.
Sack.
Punt.

2nd Drive, down 14.
Scramble.
RB run.
Incomplete pass.
RB run.
Incomplete pass.
Punt.

3rd Drive, down 21.
Completion.
RB run.
Scramble.
Incomplete pass.
Incomplete pass.

Once the game is out of reach, and Alabama starts to play a more conservative defense is when Kyler turned it on. In the NFL those are called garbage time stats.

I can add the word consistently if you really feel it is needed. Murray has shown at times that he can throw with timing in rhythm, but he has never shown to consistently be a timing and rhythm QB. That was why his pro day was constructed to be all from under center so that it would help alleviate this concern.

This is beyond dumb....he had 3 drives that didn't work vs the best team in college football.....and he didn't play defense...so the 21 wasn't on him

He also scored a TON in that game and got them back into the game....or are you just checking the bad.

During that game
Marquise Brown was not healthy..and dropped a 3rd and 6 pass

Murray was 19/37 for 307 yards and 2 TD's in the air
He ran for 107 yards and ran for 1 TD

He got more points than ANY team that season vs. Bama

At this point some of you are like the flat earth people...no matter what others say...you keep saying 'the world is flat'

 

[ARZCardinals]

Once again for those who think Not wanting Murray is hate.Get a freaking clue .People are allowed to have a different opinion from from the Murray fan club.

Because you make no sense....
Name on season he didn't succeed? ....I'll wait
Name one season stat he didn't end up in the championship...I'll wait...

He had a higher QB rating in college than Peyton Manning

So the guy won almost every game he played in and had the highest stats in college football ever...and he did it in high school too. 47-0...but that's not enough.....get outta here!