Marion

[SirStefan32]

Funny how the pistons and spurs keep winning championships without such a great player who can create his own shot against anybody. And the Mavs may do it this year, without a guy who can create his own shot against anybody. Oh right, its a TEAM game, not a bunch of guys playing one-on-one.

What the hell are you talking about?

Spurs and Pistons without guys who create their own shots? Are you smoking something? Parker, Duncan, Ginobilli, Finley, NVE; Billups, Hamilton, Wallace (Rasheed), Prince... don't create their own shots? Seriously man, stop smoking whatever you're smoking.

 

[Gaddabout]

What the hell are you talking about?

Spurs and Pistons without guys who create their own shots? Are you smoking something? Parker, Duncan, Ginobilli, Finley, NVE; Billups, Hamilton, Wallace (Rasheed), Prince... don't create their own shots? Seriously man, stop smoking whatever you're smoking.

To be fair:

Duncan is almost unstoppable once he has the ball in the low-post, but he's not a guy you just give the ball to from out of bounds and expect magic to happen. He requires SOME help for most of his points, namely a clean entry pass.

Finley hasn't created his own shot since he a was a Suns rookie breaking rims with his line-drive 3-point shot.

 

[nowagimp]

wow - you're smoking A LOT of crack today, aren't you?

Again - how old is KG?

I believe the Suns board has found the Cards-board equivalent of TANGO - oye ve for all of us.

What an intelligent response, cheeseburger. I love your debate style, its worthy of at least a 6th grader. But then, what can I expect when looking at all the objectivity in your other posts. And, of course, I love all your great analysis of Marions skills. Except the inability to understand the TEAM game and how the pieces fit together. But you do know how old KG is, you got me there. You must have some really good fingers to count on.

 

[S_Nash]

What the hell are you talking about?

Spurs and Pistons without guys who create their own shots? Are you smoking something? Parker, Duncan, Ginobilli, Finley, NVE; Billups, Hamilton, Wallace (Rasheed), Prince... don't create their own shots? Seriously man, stop smoking whatever you're smoking.

You're a bit late aren't you?

Forget about creating your own shots. This guy can't even create his own posts

 

[Evil Ash]

What KG have you been watching? He's capable of going inside and dominating a game, but he prefers to play the midrange game. I honestly cannot think of a player that would complement Amare Stoudemire or fit on this team better than KG. He's one of the few big men who would NOT clog the middle for Amare Stoudemire (I guarantee he could hit these wide-open three-point shots at a much higher clip than Shawn Marion). Defensively and on the boards he would be a monster.

Besides, on the other end of the court where KG makes the biggest difference. Everybody praises Shawn Marion for defending bigger players almost every night. He does deserve credit for that as it can't be easy. However the mistake there is not seen that most of the time he is not stopping these players. Most of the time they go off for huge numbers, and that's when the Phoenix Suns are giving constant double-team help. With KG in the frontcourt that double teaming is a luxury as opposed to a necessity.

Again, that was a great game from Shawn Marion. Let's hope he brings it again in Game 6 and his ankle is OK. I don't want to just dump his salary, but IF there is a possibility for a KG trade I'm all for it.

Thank you for your time,
Joe

Fair enough but do you really think he and Amare would get along when the "point center" position we created requires almost all of the plays going through him?

I'm not so sure

 

[George O'Brien]

Fair enough but do you really think he and Amare would get along when the "point center" position we created requires almost all of the plays going through him?

I'm not so sure

Any trade has risks. Sometimes a move disrupts the team chamistry and the Knicks have shown what happens when you assemble talent with thoughts on how it comes together. That being said, KG is a lot better than Marion, which is why he is paid a lot more.

Could KG coexist with Amare? KG has averaged 4.5 assists per game for his career. In 04-05 he averaged more assists, 5.7 than Cassell at 5.1. This is not the behavior of someone who refuses to pass the ball. In any case, this deal doesn't happen unless both Amare and KG are enthusiastic about playing together.

That being said, I'm quite convinced that Eric and others are totally underesting how much the Wolves can get for KG if he is shopped.

 

[elindholm]

That being said, I'm quite convinced that Eric and others are totally underesting how much the Wolves can get for KG if he is shopped.

Just not convinced enough to agree to a bet -- all you're willing to do is argue about the rules. Doesn't sound like a firmly held conviction to me.

 

[George O'Brien]

That being said, I'm quite convinced that Eric and others are totally underesting how much the Wolves can get for KG if he is shopped.

Just not convinced enough to agree to a bet -- all you're willing to do is argue about the rules. Doesn't sound like a firmly held conviction to me.

You are not asking me if to bet on whether the proposed trade will go through. I'll take that in a heartbeat. You want to bet on whether if there is a bet you think your proposal was better. Or if not you, somebody thinks it is better.

Since this is not a straight up trade, but one involving a 2007 pick with unknown value, unless the other deal also involves a high pick it will be impossible to tell if this was a good deal or not for at least a year and possibly longer. Tell me for sure that the pick could be used for Noah, and I'd say it is overpaying. Tell me that it drops into the late lottery and I'd say it would not be enough.

In any case, I'll be clear. I will bet $50 that the Suns do not get Garnett for a package of no more than Marion, Barbosa, and two first round picks.

 

[elindholm]

You want to bet on whether if there is a bet you think your proposal was better. Or if not you, somebody thinks it is better.

Something like that. But if, as you say, I am "totally underestimating" what Garnett's price would be, then there won't be much debate if he's traded for whatever kind of package you are envisioning. The bet requires trust anyway, so if we don't trust each other to acknowledge a clear-cut case one way or the other, it's pointless. I suggested a board vote as an arbiter in case it's a close call, but I'm happy to accept another method of judgment.

Since this is not a straight up trade, but one involving a 2007 pick with unknown value, unless the other deal also involves a high pick it will be impossible to tell if this was a good deal or not

But that's ridiculous. You're saying that I'm underestimating what Garnett would fetch this summer. No one knows the precise value of those future picks, as you say, so every GM has to play the same guessing game we do.

I will bet $50 that the Suns do not get Garnett for a package of no more than Marion, Barbosa, and two first round picks.

That's not the proposed bet, and you know it. Why do you keep dodging the issue? These hit-and-run cheap shots are really getting annoying. If you want to tell the world that I don't know what I'm talking about, put something behind it.

And screw the $50 -- that amount of money means little to either of us, I trust, but to make it a big dollar figure would be gauche. A signature bet, or just plain honor, will suffice.

 

[George O'Brien]

You want to bet on whether if there is a bet you think your proposal was better. Or if not you, somebody thinks it is better.

Something like that. But if, as you say, I am "totally underestimating" what Garnett's price would be, then there won't be much debate if he's traded for whatever kind of package you are envisioning. The bet requires trust anyway, so if we don't trust each other to acknowledge a clear-cut case one way or the other, it's pointless. I suggested a board vote as an arbiter in case it's a close call, but I'm happy to accept another method of judgment.

Since this is not a straight up trade, but one involving a 2007 pick with unknown value, unless the other deal also involves a high pick it will be impossible to tell if this was a good deal or not

But that's ridiculous. You're saying that I'm underestimating what Garnett would fetch this summer. No one knows the precise value of those future picks, as you say, so every GM has to play the same guessing game we do.

I will bet $50 that the Suns do not get Garnett for a package of no more than Marion, Barbosa, and two first round picks.

That's not the proposed bet, and you know it. Why do you keep dodging the issue? These hit-and-run cheap shots are really getting annoying. If you want to tell the world that I don't know what I'm talking about, put something behind it.

And screw the $50 -- that amount of money means little to either of us, I trust, but to make it a big dollar figure would be gauche. A signature bet, or just plain honor, will suffice.

Eric, this baiting is silly. I don't trust you. You set up a sucker bet and then get irriated that I won't take it. I can't see any situation where you would not insist that your deal would be better. In other words, you have not defined a way for me to win. You'll never admit that the Wolves got value.

 

[elindholm]

Eric, ... I don't trust you. You set up a sucker bet and then get irriated that I won't take it. I can't see any situation where you would not insist that your deal would be better. In other words, you have not defined a way for me to win. You'll never admit that the Wolves got value.

Whoa. Okay. I've been called a lot of things on this board, but untrustworthy has never been one of them. That's pretty low.

Have it your way.

 

[George O'Brien]

Whoa. Okay. I've been called a lot of things on this board, but untrustworthy has never been one of them. That's pretty low.

Have it your way.

The fact that you don't recognize this as a sucker bet makes me wonder about that very fact. If you act like a con man, why should I NOT be suspicious.

Would you like me to dig thorugh trades that looked one sided at first but turnout out to be a big plus later on? If we had placed a bet on whether the Marbury trade was a good one or bad one, especially knowing that two picks would dumped just to cut luxury tax and none of the players received were any good -- would you have said the Suns got robbed? Yet today, it is clear the deal was the start of the Suns rise.

Would a pure salary dump be a good idea for the Wolves. Chicago has quite a bit of cap space. They could offer a very nice pick (NY) and $20 million in cap space. Is that better or worse? Each of us can make our own judgement, but I'm not going to trust anyone else's judgement with my money.

 

[elindholm]

The fact that you don't recognize this as a sucker bet makes me wonder about that very fact.

It would be a sucker bet only if I had inside information about how this board would vote in case of a dispute. I don't, of course. Furthermore, I invited you to suggest another arbitration method. You declined.

Would a pure salary dump be a good idea for the Wolves.

If the Wolves decide to do a pure salary dump, wouldn't you think it's safe to say that I have not underestimated his trade value? Be consistent, man.

Each of us can make our own judgement, but I'm not going to trust anyone else's judgement with my money.

Forget it. Just keep shooting spitwads at me from behind the bushes -- that seems to be the level of challenge that you're comfortable with.

 

[George O'Brien]

Forget it. Just keep shooting spitwads at me from behind the bushes -- that seems to be the level of challenge that you're comfortable with.

Does your baiting ever convince anyone? I have never considered your "bet" offer to be anything other than baiting. You don't agree with my opinion and hope that this stupid challenge will silence me. Maybe it will. You certainly have managed to drive away enough other people, I suppose I mgiht follow suit.

The odd part is that I don't this is personal. I think this is just the way you are.

 

[Cheesebeef]

will you two just get a room already.

 

[elindholm]

I have never considered your "bet" offer to be anything other than baiting.

People make bets on this board all the time. How you "consider" them is up to you. (Edit: D-Dogg just proposed one in another thread.)

You don't agree with my opinion and hope that this stupid challenge will silence me.

You misunderstand. I'm tired of you saying that I'm full of it. If you could disagree respectfully, as many on this board do, that would be different.

You certainly have managed to drive away enough other people, I suppose I mgiht follow suit.

Oh please. The only people I've "driven away" are those that have nothing to say. There are those on this board who dislike me, of course, but I'm not aware of a single intelligent poster who doesn't respect my opinions.

The odd part is that I don't this is personal. I think this is just the way you are.

That's rich. You've made explicit reference to me in order to ridicule my opinion, called me a liar, and inferred that my personal style drives people away -- and now have the bravado to say it's not personal.

 

[Suns_fan69]

somebody pass the popcorn...

 

[az1965]

somebody pass the popcorn...

 

[HooverDam]

They have email for this type of stuff.

I just dont understand how anyone can be talking about the offseason when these playoffs are going on. Every other game down to the wire, is that not enough to keep you armchair GMs amused?

 

[Gaddabout]

Man, lots of sniping for fans of a team up 3-2 in the WC Semis. We need some healing.

You must be registered for see images

 

[cly2tw]

Hey, we all needed some hug to make up for the lack thereof in the childhood. Hahah.

 

[Billythekid]

Forgive me for not reading every single post in this MARION thread, but i think it's pretty poor to be consistantly talking about trading Shawn Marion while we're STILL in the playoffs and Shawn is playing his heart out. If he has one bad game, all i read is "Shawn and Barbs for KG! ... Bring it!" Or "What about Chandler?" or "What about Bill Cartwright?"


It's pathetic. Wait till the playoffs are over... then go for your life.

GO SUNS!

 

[jandaman]

the funny thing is Marion helped this team get to the playoffs.. and to the second round.. and that win in Game 5.

Marion is the Suns second most valuable player...

 

[devilalum]

Man, lots of sniping for fans of a team up 3-2 in the WC Semis. We need some healing.

You must be registered for see images

ewwwwwwww one of them is wearing shorts!

 

[Joe Mama]

They have email for this type of stuff.

I just dont understand how anyone can be talking about the offseason when these playoffs are going on. Every other game down to the wire, is that not enough to keep you armchair GMs amused?

actually, there's an even simpler solution. Just don't read the thread.

Joe