Marion

[elindholm]

For what it's worth, Garnett is only two years older than Marion -- actually, very slightly less. Marion just turned 28 last Sunday, and Garnett will turn 30 a week from tomorrow (Friday).

 

[tlim]

A KG trade is a no brainer. Basically every single board, excep that of the T-Wolves is saying to trade for them, eh?

I disagree that Shawn cannot attack, and take his man off the dribble. He's done so in the past, and his shot is near unblockable (due to the way that Shawn shoots the ball). It's unpredictable, and it's hard to block when it goes up from the hip before you can bat your eye.

Shawn's got confidence and focus issues. He gets a bit too worried out there on the court, at certain times. When he's not worried about not fumbling, or missing, and just focuses on his game, he's alright.

But if you're playing against Elton Brand, with his massive size, wingspan, and speed, it's easy to see why Shawn has a tough time. Brand's stronger than Odom, but not as fast. That's the weakness Shawn has to recognize. Move a lot, and don't worry about getting your shot blocked. There's little chance it'll be blocked by Brand, since he's already in the dust. Just shoot it with authority.

 

[elindholm]

Basically every single board, excep that of the T-Wolves is saying to trade for them, eh?

Yes. For instance, Laker fans are proposing Kwame Brown and Smush Parker. If I were the Wolves, I'd have to think long and hard about that proposal.

[/sarcasm]

 

[tlim]

Nonono. The Lakers want to trade Smush Parker, Devin Green, and a resigned Devean George for him. KG ain't going to LA, no matter what anyone says. Too many people are smoking way too strong a stuff to hallucinate like that.

Although one thread that they have was interesting. Peja. Imagine a shooter like that playing for the Suns, eh? Possible trade target for Shawn?

Pros
Better shooting accuracy
Better free throw shooter
Better pure shooter (at least I don't freak out at his shot!)
Better passer

Cons
Slower on defense
Not as good of a shot blocker
Problems with clutch situations, although not as bad as Marion's.

 

[elindholm]

No thanks on Stojakovic. Under "Cons," you forgot to list his injury history. One thing Marion has going for him is that he stays healthy. If the Suns trade him, it should be for a player with a similar track record of being able to suit up and play.

However, it wouldn't surprise me that much to see Jermaine O'Neal and Stojakovic traded for Garnett and Hudson. If the Wolves decide to move Garnett, one of their priorities will be to package him with one of their bad contracts. That doesn't mean they'll succeed, but it's something the Suns wouldn't be able to help with.

 

[Gaddabout]

Although one thread that they have was interesting. Peja. Imagine a shooter like that playing for the Suns, eh? Possible trade target for Shawn?

Unless you've got a time machine that can take Peja back about three or four years, that's like trading Dennis Johnson for Rick Robey. I might have to burn down the arena if that happens. And if you think Marion disappears in the playoffs, try thinking of the last time you remember Peja doing anything of note in the second season. At least Marion still hustles and works very hard.

Pros
Better shooting accuracy
Better free throw shooter
Better pure shooter (at least I don't freak out at his shot!)
Better passer

Cons
Slower on defense
Not as good of a shot blocker
Problems with clutch situations, although not as bad as Marion's.

You seemed to forget a slight point: Garnett is 7-foot tall. Marion is 6-7.

And I'm at a loss how you think Garnett is a lesser shot blocker than Marion. If Flopobli is driving down the lane, Marion won't make him think twice about finishing. Garnett would.

The biggest problem I see with Garnett on the Suns is how you play both players at the same time in D'Antoni's offense. It messes with the spacing, unless you can convince either Garnett or Stoudemire to play the high post ... which seems like a waste of both of their talents, although I have no doubt either could excel in that position.

Defensively, Garnett would be an improvement 5-times over anyone currently on the roster. Stoudemire would also improve defensively because he wouldn't have to help so much. The whole team would become a Top 10 defensive squad because everyone would be playing positions more suited to their abilities.

That said, I think Garnett to Phoenix is a fantasy. The Suns don't have enough players or picks -- Minny will want a real-life big man in return -- and, as E just pointed out, the Suns won't take bad contracts in return. I think a lot of the criticism Marion is receiving doesn't take into account he's playing way out of position and is being asked to do way too much on defense. I'd much rather see how Marion plays when he returns to the 3 with KT and Stoudemire on the floor.

 

[boisesuns]

I thought about the spacing this as well, but Amare will probably be more of a jump shooter now. I think Garnett and Amare would change our rebounding margin quite a bit, as well as our defense.

 

[elindholm]

Some of you haven't watched Garnett play enough. He really isn't a paint bruiser like Stoudemire. Of course he can go strong to the hole and finish in traffic, but he's most comfortable 12-18 feet from the basket. That's why Joe Mama and others think he'd be such a good fit with Stoudemire. They wouldn't be in each other's way at all.

The Suns' defense would dramatically improve if Garnett were on the team instead of Marion. Marion does a fine job defending the small fraction of players in the league that he's capable of defending well. Garnett can defend anyone -- well, except Stoudemire -- and I'd guess that he has eight inches on Marion in terms of wingspan.

 

[boisesuns]

Yeah, it's pretty much a no brainer if we can get KG. Imagine our second chance points.

KG is worth Marion and Barbosa (Maybe a sign and trade?)

 

[elindholm]

KG is worth Marion and Barbosa (Maybe a sign and trade?)

Barbosa is eligible for an extension, but he won't be a free agent until next summer, so no sign-and-trade is necessary. Minnesota would probably want his extension already ironed out, however.

The question is whether Garnett is worth Marion, Barbosa, and the two Joe Johnson picks. There seems to be a general consensus on this board that that's probably what the Suns would have to offer (not that any of us really knows, of course). In another thread, I asserted that the Wolves won't get a better offer than that from anyone, but that's only if they put Garnett on the market in the first place, which they very well may not.

 

[boisesuns]

KG is worth Marion and Barbosa (Maybe a sign and trade?)

Barbosa is eligible for an extension, but he won't be a free agent until next summer, so no sign-and-trade is necessary. Minnesota would probably want his extension already ironed out, however.

The question is whether Garnett is worth Marion, Barbosa, and the two Joe Johnson picks. There seems to be a general consensus on this board that that's probably what the Suns would have to offer (not that any of us really knows, of course). In another thread, I asserted that the Wolves won't get a better offer than that from anyone, but that's only if they put Garnett on the market in the first place, which they very well may not.

That's right, I'm sure they will want an extension for Barbosa. I do agree we can probably present one of the best offers. If we can get away with only one of the picks that would be great. But we are talking about KG here! He is one of the best players in the NBA. If Amare comes back, we have the big guys we've always complained about lacking and a great rotation with KT. If amare doesn't come back, we have essentiall KG to replace him (not bad IMO)

KG IS a superstar. Sure we might lose Barbosa, but we can KEEP Diaw. At this point, I think Diaw would be the keeper of the two.

KG is a dominant force. His game in this system will do wonders for this team.

 

[nowagimp]

You guys are starting to talk me into trading him for Garnett...but I still think with Amare next year, Garnett wont be a great fit.

But who knows...that could be pretty sick.

First, no way the Twolves trade garnett for marion. If they would , sure almost anyone would do it. It seems that teams force the suns to go to marion early by allowing his man to be a roamer on defense. When the roamer is in the lane area, the penetration and kick will not work so well, no suprise there. Thats why I like the suns to have big guys who can shoot real well, it prevents collapse into the lane and terrible defensive spacing. Look at the bigs D'Antoni has gone after: skita, burke, grant, KT, TT. All can shoot the mid range J, and TT, Burke and skita have extended range. I'll bet D'Antoni would love KG, who has a nice mid range shot. The better the spacing, the more effective Nash, Barbs and Diaw will be on the penetrate and kick. If Marion hits 2 threes to start the game, spacing immediately improves, if he misses, the defensive plan adjusts to collapse into the lane even further, it is an intelligent gamble by Dunleavy because Marion is streaky. The way to counter is to bring in TT when marion misses, it upsets the rotation and leads to defensive problems on Brand. Pick your poison, Mike. Hopefully, Marion will shoot better in game three, because Dunleavy will just leave him open and clog the lane to make him prove he needs to be defended outside. It seems that it would also be better if the suns would reduce all the doubling on Brand, which leaves the offensive glass and guys like Mobley wide open for easy shots.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Honestly I would be amazed if Garnett is traded to anyone. Now I would certainly trade Marion and Barbosa for him, which means the trade is too one sided for us and most certainly wouldn't happen.

 

[Mike Olbinski]

Chandler Mike, I have to know why you don't think KG and Amare Stoudemire would work well together. As I've said many times before, I can't imagine a player who would complement Amare Stoudemire better than KG.

Forget about just dumping Shawn Marion. I'm sorry, but that's crazy talk. I would do the KG trade. I understand that KG is three years older than Shawn Marion. He has been in the league 4 years longer. However, we would be bringing him in to win a championship or three in the next several years.

There may be other trades I would be willing to make involving Shawn Marion. I just can't think of any off the top of my head.

I expect that this will not be the only time in this series that the Phoenix Suns are blown out by the Clippers. Almost everybody in their starting lineup and most players off the bench can post up their Phoenix Suns counterpart. Their size advantage in the middle is just ridiculous, and we aren't talking about lame players like Kwame Brown.

I didn't think anybody should be surprised by the problems the Lakers gave the Phoenix Suns in the last round. I definitely don't think we should be surprised by last night's game.

Joe

I dunno, I guess I just felt all these guys complimented each other well.

I just think, KG and Amare on the same team could be fighting for "the best player on team" ego stuff...

But maybe they are both intelligent enough to realize how great they'd be together.

I am starting to see the light though...

 

[jibikao]

I dunno, I guess I just felt all these guys complimented each other well.

I just think, KG and Amare on the same team could be fighting for "the best player on team" ego stuff...

But maybe they are both intelligent enough to realize how great they'd be together.

I am starting to see the light though...

Well, if KG wants to come to Suns, then he will have to adjust to us. He can't just assume leadership. I think in that department, KG and Nash may have more to say than Amare. Now Nash is two-time MVPs and KG is one-time. If KG truly wants to win, he shouldn't mind that and he should compromise.

In terms of actual game playing, KG loves to pass and do the little stuff. His biggest weakness is he is not that aggressive when the team needs him to be. We have Amare/Nash to take care of that department.

Has anyone thought about Amare? Does he want KG here?

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Marion is the best complementary player in basketball period.... With the absence of Amare throughout this entire season, he essentially became the #1 or #2 option on offense which doesnt suit "the Matrix's" style of game whatsoever.....

I've been saying this a lot (especially during the chats), that I personally feel that Marion will have his best year of his career next season with a healthy Amare and a more seasoned/experienced Diaw..... I have a feeling that Diaw will add more bulk to his upper body during the offseason and will become more of an inside presence (which he has made some strides during this post-season of getting to the basket with more authority)....

Plus... KT should be 100% in time for '06-'07 and with his rather physical play (and ability to shoot both from the perimeter and inside), Marion wont take as much of a pounding.. or be heavily guarded as he is now... Plus.. he wont be forced to even create his own shots that he has at times (which of course isnt one of his fortes)....

If the Suns acquired KG, I think it would affect the chemistry more than several have taken into account.. He would demand to become more of the focal point and that could have a serious affect/impact on Amare (since the team has essentially been more geared towards him).......

Just let Marion revert back to his role of a complementary player than being relied on as one of the main offensive options and you'd remember his full actual worth......

 

[JS22]

Honestly I would be amazed if Garnett is traded to anyone. Now I would certainly trade Marion and Barbosa for him, which means the trade is too one sided for us and most certainly wouldn't happen.

Which is why the Suns would have to throw in the 2 #1's, as well. Although Barbosa's stock is at an all-time high right now.

 

[tlim]

Unless you've got a time machine that can take Peja back about three or four years, that's like trading Dennis Johnson for Rick Robey. I might have to burn down the arena if that happens. And if you think Marion disappears in the playoffs, try thinking of the last time you remember Peja doing anything of note in the second season. At least Marion still hustles and works very hard.


You seemed to forget a slight point: Garnett is 7-foot tall. Marion is 6-7.

And I'm at a loss how you think Garnett is a lesser shot blocker than Marion. If Flopobli is driving down the lane, Marion won't make him think twice about finishing. Garnett would.

Umm, dude. I was talkin about Peja. Trading for Garnett for Shawn is like trading up from a Chevy Malibu to a Ferrari. No brainer.

Peja's D is not up to Garnett's. As for Peja, it is a mental thing for him in game 7. With the flow the Suns have, dayum, that guy would be shooting an even higher percentage on 3s than he did in Sacramento.

 

[tlim]

Yeah, it's pretty much a no brainer if we can get KG. Imagine our second chance points.

KG is worth Marion and Barbosa (Maybe a sign and trade?)

Man, if I was the owner of the GM, I'd go downstairs immediately to take a shotgun to McHale for pulling that trade. That's a horrible trade for the T-Wolves. Trading a MegaStar for a bottom of the ladder All-Star, and an up and comer whose upside is getting close to the top? Plus, the wolves want to trade for smalls for a big?

The only way that the trade comes through is if the Wolves get picks, *alot of them*. Probably near a full hand's worth of first rounders.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Which is why the Suns would have to throw in the 2 #1's, as well. Although Barbosa's stock is at an all-time high right now.

LOL one of those picks is almost useless, namely the Lakers pick this year. This is a terrible draft and it is the #21 pick. It wouldn't suprise me if we gave the pick away rather than pay the guaranteed salary on a project.

The actual Atlanta pick has good value since the draft should be decent in 2007, but it depends greatly on Atlanta's off season. They were a better team this year than their record indicates.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Man, if I was the owner of the GM, I'd go downstairs immediately to take a shotgun to McHale for pulling that trade. That's a horrible trade for the T-Wolves. Trading a MegaStar for a bottom of the ladder All-Star, and an up and comer whose upside is getting close to the top? Plus, the wolves want to trade for smalls for a big?

The only way that the trade comes through is if the Wolves get picks, *alot of them*. Probably near a full hand's worth of first rounders.

This is my point exactly. It's a pipe dream.

Now if you wanted to talk Marion, Barbosa, and Diaw, that might get it done with Diaw being the key player in the deal.

 

[elindholm]

Now if you wanted to talk Marion, Barbosa, and Diaw, that might get it done with Diaw being the key player in the deal.

Garnett's value isn't anywhere near that high. If he's traded, I guarantee the price will be lower than that, no matter who the other team is.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Now if you wanted to talk Marion, Barbosa, and Diaw, that might get it done with Diaw being the key player in the deal.

Garnett's value isn't anywhere near that high. If he's traded, I guarantee the price will be lower than that, no matter who the other team is.

Then he won't be traded because it is that high to Minnesota. (Which is what I believe). They have no reason to trade him unless they get equitable value in young talent and good contracts. He is their only marketable assett. Further, the moment Garnett becomes tradable, every team in the league will be lavishing deals on Minnesota just for his marketability.

If we think Marion gets paid too much, don't you think Minnesota thinks the same thing? That decreases Marion's value.

 

[Chaplin]

Then he won't be traded because it is that high to Minnesota. (Which is what I believe). They have no reason to trade him unless they get equitable value in young talent and good contracts. He is their only marketable assett. Further, the moment Garnett becomes tradable, every team in the league will be lavishing deals on Minnesota just for his marketability.

If we think Marion gets paid too much, don't you think Minnesota thinks the same thing? That decreases Marion's value.

Don't underestimate the power that Garnett has. If we offer Marion, Barbosa, and a couple #1s, and Garnett says, "Make it happen," you can be damn sure it'll happen.

Besides, it's not as one-sided as a lot of people think.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Any pick in the current draft that isn't a lottery pick has negative value.

This draft is terrible due to the now installed age limits. Like I said, don't be suprised if the Suns ditch one of their two first rounders.