McCown would draw plenty of interest

[Wild Card]

On the other hand you could contend that the other QBs with 0 wins on their resume were playing with the same other 10 offensive guys McCown was couldnt you?

Shane:

Not exactly. You'd have to look at game-time rosters, see who was healthy, who started, etc. Lots of different players have lined up on offense for the Cardinals over the 2004-05 seasons.

To use a specific example, Kurt Warner is the only Cardinal QB that will ever take snaps from C Shawn Lynch. It's not Warner's fault that Lynch was starting his first--and only--NFL game against the Giants.

The point is that there are a ton of variables that decide which team wins or loses a particular game. That's why W-L percentages are a reasonably accurate measurement of team performance, but a less-accurate indicator for any individual player.

Unless a player does certain position-specific things well, it's hard to say that he's personally responsible for his team winning. (Or losing, for that matter. No one would dispute that Neil Rackers is having a terrific season, even though the Cardinals are 1-3 in the games he's started. )

WC

 

[Shane]

Shane:

Not exactly. You'd have to look at game-time rosters, see who was healthy, who started, etc. Lots of different players have lined up on offense for the Cardinals over the 2004-05 seasons.

To use a specific example, Kurt Warner is the only Cardinal QB that will ever take snaps from C Shawn Lynch. It's not Warner's fault that Lynch was starting his first--and only--NFL game against the Giants.

The point is that there are a ton of variables that decide which team wins or loses a particular game. That's why W-L percentages are a reasonably accurate measurement of team performance, but a less-accurate indicator for any individual player.

Unless a player does certain position-specific things well, it's hard to say that he's personally responsible for his team winning. (Or losing, for that matter. No one would dispute that Neil Rackers is having a terrific season, even though the Cardinals are 1-3 in the games he's started. )

WC

Sorry not buying it. Even with the center problems the QB has been getting decent pass protection. Of course there will be minor variations due to injuries etc.... But for the most part the personnel is the same.

 

[ajcardfan]

Sorry not buying it. Even with the center problems the QB has been getting decent pass protection. Of course there will be minor variations due to injuries etc.... But for the most part the personnel is the same.

Without the defense pitching a shutout on Sunday I don't think McCown has the game he has or we win. The turnovers and the way they repeatedly got the 49ers right off the field played a big role in the team's and McCown's success. We had the luxury of kicking 6 FGs until we could finally punch in a couple of TDs without falling any further behind. Had they played that well in the first three games, I highly doubt we'd be 0-3. So, WC does have a point, but Lynch was not the best example for his point.

 

[GreenCard]

My Grandson saw Q wide open on the replay of Fitz's TD catch.The boys in the booth gave Josh hell for not seeing Q wide open.I did not see The Quan open but I did see what Josh saw.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Josh has his downfalls, that I can not deny. But the kid wins when no one else does. You have to give him some credit for that.

Unfortunately, one of his biggest wins was the one that knocked Minnesota from the playoffs.

Rather than appreciate his performance on that day, the naysayers griped that it cost us draft position.

Josh just can't win when it comes to the haters.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

My Grandson saw Q wide open on the replay of Fitz's TD catch.The boys in the booth gave Josh hell for not seeing Q wide open.I did not see The Quan open but I did see what Josh saw.

He was probably afraid to throw it to a wide open Q. He might do a little half-jump and fall down right after catching the pass. Maybe he was looking at his other options.

 

[ajcardfan]

My Grandson saw Q wide open on the replay of Fitz's TD catch.The boys in the booth gave Josh hell for not seeing Q wide open.I did not see The Quan open but I did see what Josh saw.

If you watch the "6 Days to Sunday" show they discussed the play before it happened and Boldin, Fitz and McCown all did exactly what they said they were going to do. McCown congratulates Boldin for occupying the safety on the play. Boldin didn't say " I was wide open", even though he was.

 

[Wild Card]

WC does have a point, but Lynch was not the best example for his point.

AJCF:

I was just responding to Shane's observation that "the other QBs... were playing with the same other 10 offensive guys." Not true, especially since there's been an off-season--and significant roster changes--in the middle of the streak of games we're discussing.

But your comments about the defense's play against San Francisco are well-taken, and another example why the quarterback shouldn't get sole/primary credit for his team's won-loss record. Unless we're talking about John Elway or Brett Favre in their primes, a team's win percentage probably has less to do with the QB than with the rest of the team around him.

WC

 

[clif]

If you watch the "6 Days to Sunday" show they discussed the play before it happened and Boldin, Fitz and McCown all did exactly what they said they were going to do. McCown congratulates Boldin for occupying the safety on the play. Boldin didn't say " I was wide open", even though he was.

Yep.

He did exactly what he said he wanted to do. Quan occupy the safety so that they can get a big play on the outside.

 

[Zeno]

I just want to see consistency. I don't want him to follow up last weeks performance with a 120 yd 1 TD stinker.

We saw him play awesome against a bad defense, now I want to just see him play well against a good one.

 

[conraddobler]

He's better than you think.

One reason is that he's been here with Q for 3 years and 3 training camps and with Fitzgerald for 2.

Once he has two weeks work with them as the number one he should be on the same page with them about as well as anyone.

What I like about him is that he gets drilled and it almost seems to make him better.


I think with Wakefield in there and in two WR sets he will do great because he now has an idea of what kind of passes he can get away with two the two amigos out there and he is the only QB who seems to understand you can lob to ball to Fitz at will.

Hope he does well.

 

[cdex99]

Yep.

He did exactly what he said he wanted to do. Quan occupy the safety so that they can get a big play on the outside.

They even showed that on the "wired for sound" segment during the game! I guess some people only see what they want to see. In my eyes it was a touchdown. In the haters eyes it was a failed play because he missed the guy he wasn't going to throw to in the first place!! I can not believe we are even arguing about this. IT WAS A TOUCHDOWN!!!!!!

 

[Russ Smith]

Russ,

You made a coment in an earlier thread after the SF game that maybe if Warner was playing in the SF game he would have had less yards because he would have been benched early because it would have been an early blow out. You stated that you think Warner would have hit some of those deep balls McCown missed.

Why do you feel that way? I have seen Warner overthrow or underthrow an uncanny amount of deep balls in the first three games. So what makes you have more confidence in his abilities to get it there with that fluttring ball of his?

I'm talking about the plays where Josh had guy wide open and didn't throw the ball to him. THe 2nd series when Maguire called Boldin wide open(can't see it on tape), the series where Shipp fumbles he overthrows BJ when Boldin is wide open on the same side deeper(in the endzone) for a TD. There was at least one more on another drive I don't recall the play.

Even the td throw to Fitz, he made a great catch but if you look you'll see Boldin completely open in the middle before Josh throws the ball. We scored so obviously it didn't matter but it's another example of him not seeing the wide open guy because he was keyed in on the "primary receiver".

I'm not saying Warner is perfect just that he sees things Josh doesn't, that's precisely why he sat there with the pictures showing Josh what the safety was doing and how to exploit it.

 

[GreenCard]

Brian,I doubt we will ever see Q do that again.I would think he caught enough teasing from his peers.

 

[vince56]

Even the td throw to Fitz, he made a great catch but if you look you'll see Boldin completely open in the middle before Josh throws the ball. We scored so obviously it didn't matter but it's another example of him not seeing the wide open guy because he was keyed in on the "primary receiver".

YOU'RE NOT LISTENING.

Watch some TV Russ. NFL channel. 212 DirecTV.

That's how the play was designed. Boldin was to occupy the safety on a post pattern, which freed up Fitz 1-on-1 on a CB they knew he could beat on a jump ball. After the play, all three players, Boldin, Fitz, and McCown were congratulation each other on their FLAWLESS execution.

 

[Russ Smith]

Without the defense pitching a shutout on Sunday I don't think McCown has the game he has or we win. The turnovers and the way they repeatedly got the 49ers right off the field played a big role in the team's and McCown's success. We had the luxury of kicking 6 FGs until we could finally punch in a couple of TDs without falling any further behind. Had they played that well in the first three games, I highly doubt we'd be 0-3. So, WC does have a point, but Lynch was not the best example for his point.

Yep, the luxury of playing against a visibly exhausted defense is something Warner didn't have in any of his starts.

 

[Russ Smith]

Yep.

He did exactly what he said he wanted to do. Quan occupy the safety so that they can get a big play on the outside.

The problem is Quan did NOT occupy the safety, the safety broke to cover Fitz before the ball was thrown leaving Quan wide open. Quan may have occupied him long enough to keep him away from Fitz but when Josh threw that ball, Fitz was covered, and Quan wasn't.

When it works nobody cares, but if that throw is slightly off and batted away or picked, we're all still arguing over why he didn't throw to Quan.

 

[clif]

The problem is Quan did NOT occupy the safety, the safety broke to cover Fitz before the ball was thrown leaving Quan wide open. Quan may have occupied him long enough to keep him away from Fitz but when Josh threw that ball, Fitz was covered, and Quan wasn't.

When it works nobody cares, but if that throw is slightly off and batted away or picked, we're all still arguing over why he didn't throw to Quan.

If he didn't occupy the safety ..How was Fitz singled up? I will rewatch the play, but damn Russ you are nitpicking. They executed the play exactly as it was drawn up.

 

[Russ Smith]

YOU'RE NOT LISTENING.

Watch some TV Russ. NFL channel. 212 DirecTV.

That's how the play was designed. Boldin was to occupy the safety on a post pattern, which freed up Fitz 1-on-1 on a CB they knew he could beat on a jump ball. After the play, all three players, Boldin, Fitz, and McCown were congratulation each other on their FLAWLESS execution.

I understand that Vince. My point is, when Josh threw the ball, Fitz was covered, and Anquan wasn't. And the safety was rolling towards Fitz before the ball was thrown.

 

[DKCards]

The problem is Quan did NOT occupy the safety, the safety broke to cover Fitz before the ball was thrown leaving Quan wide open. Quan may have occupied him long enough to keep him away from Fitz but when Josh threw that ball, Fitz was covered, and Quan wasn't.

When it works nobody cares, but if that throw is slightly off and batted away or picked, we're all still arguing over why he didn't throw to Quan.

That whole play was designed to go to Fitz and Fitz only. It was called that way on the sidelines, it was called that way in the huddle. Josh was told to throw a jump ball period, no reads, no other options. They knew it was going to be a jump ball and that is what they wanted. If you want to pick out another play that someone was open to rip Josh that is fine but leave that play alone.

 

[Russ Smith]

If he didn't occupy the safety ..How was Fitz singled up? I will rewatch the play, but damn Russ you are nitpicking. They executed the play exactly as it was drawn up.

The safety screwed up, he wound up not in position on EITHER guy. But if you watch Quan beats his man entirely he's breaking wide open in the endzone but the safety has already chosen to help on Fitz and not on Quan.

AGain Nolan singled out Adams as one of the reasons the pass defense was so bad, because he was out of position so much. adams might even go back to CB this week because they have injuries there and Nolan said he only just moved to Safety and he struggled there last week so we might put him back at CB this week.

All I'm saying is in general if given a choice between throwing to a covered WR or an open WR, most NFL QB's will have more success throwing to the open one. I don't doubt for one minute that was the play, and that it worked, I'm just saying in the end he threw the ball to the LESS open guy. I'm just talking about seeing the field not results on that play.

 

[clif]

The safety screwed up, he wound up not in position on EITHER guy. But if you watch Quan beats his man entirely he's breaking wide open in the endzone but the safety has already chosen to help on Fitz and not on Quan.

AGain Nolan singled out Adams as one of the reasons the pass defense was so bad, because he was out of position so much. adams might even go back to CB this week because they have injuries there and Nolan said he only just moved to Safety and he struggled there last week so we might put him back at CB this week.

All I'm saying is in general if given a choice between throwing to a covered WR or an open WR, most NFL QB's will have more success throwing to the open one. I don't doubt for one minute that was the play, and that it worked, I'm just saying in the end he threw the ball to the LESS open guy. I'm just talking about seeing the field not results on that play.

Russ, where did the safety end up on the play? He sure as hell wasn't in the picture when I saw the catch being made. I will rewatch it tonight, but I don't even recall him being close.

The play was Fitz first option and Q second. As soon as they got one on one coverage the ball was in the air.

You are basically blaming the safety's mistake on Josh.

 

[Russ Smith]

That whole play was designed to go to Fitz and Fitz only. It was called that way on the sidelines, it was called that way in the huddle. Josh was told to throw a jump ball period, no reads, no other options. They knew it was going to be a jump ball and that is what they wanted. If you want to pick out another play that someone was open to rip Josh that is fine but leave that play alone.

you gotta be kidding me, do you know how many TD passes each week are thrown to guys who are NOT the intended WR on the play?

Part of the point is if you can only see the primary WR, it limits your effectiveness. DO you really think if Josh had seen Quan break free and hit him for a TD that Green or Rowen would have been mad at him for not throwing the jump ball?

ITs' a classic example of something that Josh has shown his entire career here, if the primary guy is open great, if he's not, josh doesn't see anybody else and usually either takes the sack, or dumps it short. To his credit on this play even though Fitz wasn't really "open" Josh put the ball up where if Fitz didn't get it, nobody would. But I'd still be willing to guess Josh had no idea how open Quan was, because he didn't look.

 

[Zeno]

That whole play was designed to go to Fitz and Fitz only. It was called that way on the sidelines, it was called that way in the huddle. Josh was told to throw a jump ball period, no reads, no other options. .

Are you serious? A playcall with no other options? No wonder we stink in the redzone.

It worked that time but now that explains why Rackers has so many FGs and the team has so few TDs...our offensive playcalling is limited to "throw it to #(fill in the blank), I don't care how open anyone else is"

 

[Russ Smith]

Russ, where did the safety end up on the play? He sure as hell wasn't in the picture when I saw the catch being made. I will rewatch it tonight, but I don't even recall him being close.

The play was Fitz first option and Q second. As soon as they got one on one coverage the ball was in the air.

You are basically blaming the safety's mistake on Josh.

The safety ends up completely out of the play. The ball goes to the outside where Fitz outjumps the CB for the ball. The safety couldn't get there, nor was he anywhere near Boldin. But if you watch the replay they showed us, when josh throws the ball, the safety has already left Quan and is going towards Fitz. I pointed it out that night in the game thread and I think AJ and someone else immediately agreed yes I saw that too but it doesn't matter because we scored on the play.