McCown would draw plenty of interest

[clif]

you gotta be kidding me, do you know how many TD passes each week are thrown to guys who are NOT the intended WR on the play?

Part of the point is if you can only see the primary WR, it limits your effectiveness. DO you really think if Josh had seen Quan break free and hit him for a TD that Green or Rowen would have been mad at him for not throwing the jump ball?

ITs' a classic example of something that Josh has shown his entire career here, if the primary guy is open great, if he's not, josh doesn't see anybody else and usually either takes the sack, or dumps it short. To his credit on this play even though Fitz wasn't really "open" Josh put the ball up where if Fitz didn't get it, nobody would. But I'd still be willing to guess Josh had no idea how open Quan was, because he didn't look.

See this is the exact thing that gets me when people criticize. There is no way for you to say that he didn't look. He got points on the board.

Like DKcards said. If you want to rip Josh, then find another play because that won't cut it.

I could take the same tune with Warner... How the hell does Archuleta sack him with one hand?

Why the hell does half his passes flutter like lame ducks?

Why didn't he spike the damn ball????

See what I am saying?

 

[DKCards]

you gotta be kidding me, do you know how many TD passes each week are thrown to guys who are NOT the intended WR on the play?

Part of the point is if you can only see the primary WR, it limits your effectiveness. DO you really think if Josh had seen Quan break free and hit him for a TD that Green or Rowen would have been mad at him for not throwing the jump ball?

ITs' a classic example of something that Josh has shown his entire career here, if the primary guy is open great, if he's not, josh doesn't see anybody else and usually either takes the sack, or dumps it short. To his credit on this play even though Fitz wasn't really "open" Josh put the ball up where if Fitz didn't get it, nobody would. But I'd still be willing to guess Josh had no idea how open Quan was, because he didn't look.

No I am not kidding and in most cases I would agree with you but not on this one. Thanks to being wired we got to hear what was going on and on this play there was no other option. And if he looked off Fitz and threw it to Q I think DG would have been upset with him. If he made the TD a little less upset but still upset. That is exactly how the play was designed and executed.



OT…. Would you rather have McCown or Jake (From 5 years ago) on your team?

 

[clif]

Are you serious? A playcall with no other options? No wonder we stink in the redzone.

It worked that time but now that explains why Rackers has so many FGs and the team has so few TDs...our offensive playcalling is limited to "throw it to #(fill in the blank), I don't care how open anyone else is"

No... this is where I disagree with DKcards. Quan was the second option. They just never needed to get that far. He was correct in that the play was still executed as drawn up.

Did anyone watch "6 Days to Sunday" or even listen to the mic'ed up segments?

 

[Duckjake]

He's better than you think.

One reason is that he's been here with Q for 3 years and 3 training camps and with Fitzgerald for 2.

Once he has two weeks work with them as the number one he should be on the same page with them about as well as anyone.

What I like about him is that he gets drilled and it almost seems to make him better.


I think with Wakefield in there and in two WR sets he will do great because he now has an idea of what kind of passes he can get away with two the two amigos out there and he is the only QB who seems to understand you can lob to ball to Fitz at will.

Hope he does well.

I hope so too. But with Peppers going against Fred I think Josh is going to spend most of the day running for his life, just like all the Cardinal QB's before him.

 

[Russ Smith]

No I am not kidding and in most cases I would agree with you but not on this one. Thanks to being wired we got to hear what was going on and on this play there was no other option. And if he looked off Fitz and threw it to Q I think DG would have been upset with him. If he made the TD a little less upset but still upset. That is exactly how the play was designed and executed.



OT…. Would you rather have McCown or Jake (From 5 years ago) on your team?

No question McCown, he's much cheaper.

I guess we have to disagree, I don't really buy that we call plays that have one option. I mean if Quan's man and the safety collide and fall down do you still say it's the right play to throw to Fitz because it worked? I do believe that we design plays to get Fitz one on one so we can throw to him for a jump ball, I don't believe someone tells Josh you throw him the ball no matter what.

As for Clif complaining about my commenting on this play, no offense but Shane specifically asked me, TWICE, to chime in on this thread. I've been spending most of the last 2 days watching video on my PC trying to figure out who hell stole laptops at work. I just happened to look in on this thread and see Shane's posts so I responded.

You can pick other threads to complain about me on but don't complain about this one, my involvement was a direct reponse to Shane.

See 2 can play at that game.

 

[Russ Smith]

No... this is where I disagree with DKcards. Quan was the second option. They just never needed to get that far. He was correct in that the play was still executed as drawn up.

Did anyone watch "6 Days to Sunday" or even listen to the mic'ed up segments?

So I'll ask you this, if Adams runs into the CB and they both fall down, do you still want Josh throwing to Fitz on that play?

Part of my belief, and Theismann said it too and Warner said it to Josh during the game, is that on many plays in every game, Josh refuses to throw balls that are open because he's being overly cautious. He'd rather overthrow Johnson than take the deep ball to Anquan because he considers the deeper throw more risky, even though Boldin is clearly more open. That's because JOsh is not an accurate thrower.

So you get plays in every game where someone is open downfield but Josh takes the "safer throw". Now I'd rather take the safe throw than Plummer the ball into double coverage, believe me I love the fact that Josh doesn't do that. But when someone is open the QB has to be able to make the throw, and willing to do so he can't shy away from it because it's out of his comfort zone.

 

[clif]

No question McCown, he's much cheaper.

I guess we have to disagree, I don't really buy that we call plays that have one option. I mean if Quan's man and the safety collide and fall down do you still say it's the right play to throw to Fitz because it worked? I do believe that we design plays to get Fitz one on one so we can throw to him for a jump ball, I don't believe someone tells Josh you throw him the ball no matter what.

As for Clif complaining about my commenting on this play, no offense but Shane specifically asked me, TWICE, to chime in on this thread. I've been spending most of the last 2 days watching video on my PC trying to figure out who hell stole laptops at work. I just happened to look in on this thread and see Shane's posts so I responded.

You can pick other threads to complain about me on but don't complain about this one, my involvement was a direct reponse to Shane.

See 2 can play at that game.

I am not complaining about your participation. I welcome your opinions because they are usually well presented and thought out, but I cannot see how you can rip the guy for executing the play (from all accounts) exactly as it was intended.

What about the td pass he put on fitz that he dropped?

what about the td pass to Q?

What about the pass to Shipp when he was the 3rd or 4th option where he ran for like 20 yards up the middle

what about the 3rd down throw to Bj that was dropped and killed yet another drive?

 

[Skkorpion]

Like everybody else on here, I watch multiple football games every Sunday. Every QB in the league doesn't see wide open receivers. Every QB sometimes forces passes when he shouldn't. Demanding perfection from a very inexperienced McCown is bush league.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

We can sit around here and argue numbers all day, but the bottom line is that the buzz over McCown here is truly a media creation, and clearly Len hasn't seen every McCown start over the last few years. I love the fact that Josh has a huge heart, and always competes, but let's be real here; does anyone see Josh McCown as the long term solution to the QB situation? After watching every start of his over the last few years, I don't see it.

Furthermore, I am shocked that anyone would use the SF game as evidence of anything. The only thing that game showed was that SF has one of the most pathetic defenses ever. Seriously, we completely dismantled them, without the benefit of any running game. It was a fun game, but if we took apart NAU in a scrimmage it wouldn't be turning carwheels. These conversations are always good for a laugh however. I hope we win, but if we do, I would imagine it would be more because of our defense than anything. I will be thrilled if Josh continues this play, but I sure as hell am not expecting it.

 

[ajcardfan]

Demanding perfection from a very inexperienced McCown is bush league.

I don't think McCown qualifies as "very inexperienced" anymore. He's played a lot and been through way too much for that. No more time for "growing" into the job. Time to step up and get it done week in and week out if he wants to be what Len P says he could be.

 

[CaptTurbo]

I could take the same tune with Warner... How the hell does Archuleta sack him with one hand?

Why the hell does half his passes flutter like lame ducks?

Why didn't he spike the damn ball????

See what I am saying?

Then I guess there are two types of people in this world.

1) People who think Josh is better than Kurt.

2) People who think Kurt is better than Josh.

If your one of the people flaberghasted to think people actually believe Kurt is the better QB, imagine what those people think of your opinion.

Count me in group 2 every day of the week and twice on sunday.

 

[CaptTurbo]

I don't think McCown qualifies as "very inexperienced" anymore. .

Josh will be a rookie for every year that he is here. Its a trend that just wont quit. Kind of like th energizer bunny.

 

[Russ Smith]

I am not complaining about your participation. I welcome your opinions because they are usually well presented and thought out, but I cannot see how you can rip the guy for executing the play (from all accounts) exactly as it was intended.

What about the td pass he put on fitz that he dropped?

what about the td pass to Q?

What about the pass to Shipp when he was the 3rd or 4th option where he ran for like 20 yards up the middle

what about the 3rd down throw to Bj that was dropped and killed yet another drive?

Clif the point is you're bringing in stuff that has nothing to do with the point Shane asked of me. I had said I felt Warner would have hit several open guys early in the game and put us well in front. Shane asked what I meant by that, and I responded with examples of plays where guys were open and Josh either didn't see them, or didn't throw.

I agree Fitz dropped a TD, the pass to Q was well thrown and not a wide open play, it's precisely the kind of play that last year he put in his pocket as AJ said. The play to Shipp was one I've specifically praised multiple times here, Warner can't make that play because he's already sacked.

But in general when the first guy isn't open, Josh defaults to the short route IMHO.

 

[Assface]

Josh has talent. He made some really boneheaded plays but he also made some great plays. There was the pass where he was getting hit and made an incredible throw (I think to Shipp about 10 yards in front of him) he scrambled, ran for some yards, bought time to make passes.

I think he benefitted quite a lot from Warner. They showed the clip of Kurt showing Josh what was happening on the field and giving advice. I just wish Josh had a mentor like that to begin with. Look at the veterans he's worked with. His rookie year was with plummer, who after 6 years still made the same mistakes, then there was Jeff "Leon" Blake and the Louisiana legend Shaun King.

As long as he's here I'm going to root for him and anyone else who lines up for the Cardinals. It seems like too many people want "their guy" to be successful. Whether it's Warner vs. McCown, Shipp vs. Arrington, Boldin vs Fitz a lot of posters wants to be right and have the guy they've been pimping be the hero.

 

[Skkorpion]

We can sit around here and argue numbers all day, but the bottom line is that the buzz over McCown here is truly a media creation, and clearly Len hasn't seen every McCown start over the last few years. I love the fact that Josh has a huge heart, and always competes, but let's be real here; does anyone see Josh McCown as the long term solution to the QB situation? After watching every start of his over the last few years, I don't see it.

I see it. And it's because of the games he's played so far. And I firmly belive but can't prove we wouldn't have been 0-3 if McCown had been the starter. And we would probably have been in the playoffs last year if McCown had not been benched.

So ridicule me if you wish. You will be proven wrong.

 

[DeAnna]

Now, now boys. Can't we all just get along?

 

[conraddobler]

Like everybody else on here, I watch multiple football games every Sunday. Every QB in the league doesn't see wide open receivers. Every QB sometimes forces passes when he shouldn't. Demanding perfection from a very inexperienced McCown is bush league.

That's really what it boils down to and I'd add that our castaway QB aka Jake Plummer is ranked pretty high so far this season.

Better than a ton of people on here ever believed he would be including me.

I don't know what part of comparing a Cardinal QB to other QB's dosen't work people don't understand.

I think you should get a 10 point bonus on your QB rating just for playing for us.

I see the Chiefs all the time, Trent Green throws bone headed picks and misses wide open guys from time to time.

He has a run game and a TE to throw too that is all world and that's why he racks up yards by the bucket load.

However if Trent Green played on the Cardinals, first of all he'd be dead by now and 2nd of all he'd miss some wide open guys too with happy feet from getting the daylights drilled out of him.

 

[seesred]

I love Josh threads.They are fun to read. Can you imagine if it would have been Josh that lost the Giants game by not spiking the ball. The guy would still be running on the 101 for his life and the world would be watching as he is tared and feathered on his way out of town. Josh has grown in his ability to motavate a team. He never lost his focus against a bad team that was up 14-0 . Heck he was driving towards what could have been a TD when Shipp dropped the ball and the only person that ran after the guy that picked up the fumble was Josh.

IMO he is a leader. He is learning skills and at the age of 26 has a huge upside. I hope he signs and stays here. I hope he gets a chance in camp next year to show what he has learned. He might lay a bomb against the Panthers and half this board will say I told you so. But if he wins the game with 180 yards and a TD half the board will say see he won the other half will say yea but 186 yards give me a break. Josh must be perfect over 300 yards and at least two TD's to start winning respect from the nay sayers. And then he must do it every week or watch out here the boo's.

I will toast Josh tonight and again on Sunday, the kid has guts, and untapped ability. Here's to you !!!

GBR
40

 

[kerouac9]

Like everybody else on here, I watch multiple football games every Sunday. Every QB in the league doesn't see wide open receivers. Every QB sometimes forces passes when he shouldn't. Demanding perfection from a very inexperienced McCown is bush league.

Enough. Please. He's a four-year veteran. He has 16 starts under his belt and appeared in over 20 games. Enough. Josh McCown no longer can be referred to as "inexperienced". Much less "very inexperienced." How many Super Bowls had Tom Brady won by the time he'd had as many starts as McCown?

 

[clif]

Then I guess there are two types of people in this world.

1) People who think Josh is better than Kurt.

2) People who think Kurt is better than Josh.

If your one of the people flaberghasted to think people actually believe Kurt is the better QB, imagine what those people think of your opinion.

Count me in group 2 every day of the week and twice on sunday.

Where did I ever say that Josh was a better Qb than Kurt? See this is what kills me about you. You throw completely ridiculous statements around with blatant disregard for truth. I never said Josh was better than Kurt. I just think like others that the guy has some talent and with some more experience he will continue to grow.

I've said that since day one. I've never said any different.

 

[clif]

But in general when the first guy isn't open, Josh defaults to the short route IMHO.

That is what most if not all young Qb's do. I would rather he did that than taking stupid sacks like Carr.

This is why I want so bad for one of our TE's to step up, because I fill confident in saying that if we had a legit one.. those dump offs will be to a TE that can get up field.

 

[spanky1]

Swd, McCown in his few starts has shown some ups and some downs, but in total he's been better than most young QBs in their early days. And I am sick to death of those who constantly misrepresent his record and I am not going to keep just ignoring the misleading crap people like you spew at every opportunity.

How true skkorp.......of the following "YOUNG GUNS", I would take McCown over:

a) David Carr
b) Phillip Rivers
c) Rex Grossman
d) Joey Harrington
e) JP Losman
f) Chad Pennington
g) Kyle Boller

and I've never been a fan of Leftwich (but he is not on this list).

I do think Eli will break out huge (he's getting better by the game), Palmer will take the Bengals deep, Roethlisberger is Pittsburgh's next Terry Bradshaw (or more).

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Josh....he isn't the POS that all his detractors think he is.

And he will make a lot of dough next year......somewhere.

 

[Chaz]

How many Super Bowls had Tom Brady won by the time he'd had as many starts as McCown?

Your probably right. Everyone that doesn't meet the Tom Brady standard sucks.

 

[clif]

Your probably right. Everyone that doesn't meet the Tom Brady standard sucks.

You beat me to it

 

[conraddobler]

Enough. Please. He's a four-year veteran. He has 16 starts under his belt and appeared in over 20 games. Enough. Josh McCown no longer can be referred to as "inexperienced". Much less "very inexperienced." How many Super Bowls had Tom Brady won by the time he'd had as many starts as McCown?

Why do you bring him up?

Why?

How about Josh's record versus every other QB we have tried in 3 years or 4 years?

Does Brady play here? No.

Can we sign him? No I wish.

Even if he played here would we win a Superbowl? No.

Would we make the playoffs, well last year maybe, maybe but again he dosen't play here or on 31 other teams and this year is the teams problem Tom Brady? No.

Fact is that Brady runs a solid team, did from the get go and he's not the average situation from a rookie QB. Same thing for Big Ben.

Both of whom are better than Josh easy but then again we don't have them we have what we have and of that buch Josh is the best, not the ultimate solution IMO yet but he's the best one we have now.

The problem is that some people have screamed how sucky he is and just want to be proved right about it.

Whatever, he dosen't suck if he sucked he'd be O fer like the other QB's on our roster.