McCown's Had his shot...bench him

[Rats]

Nice reply Duckjake! I never said every cardinal player leaves and gets better it happens period just the past few years Jake, Pittman, Chavous, TJ, now I agree it was time to part with alot of the players that leave. THe fact remains players go to teams and get REAL coaching and develop, the same can't be said here. You in your negativity obviously only read to try to find something to make a smart ass comment about, instead of an intelligent response.

I think Duckjake was just trying to have a sense of humor about this club. By and large the higher draft picks that leave go on to be successful in varying degrees elsewhere. Those are usually the ones everyone points to as "if we had only coached them up". The fact is that several of them did not want to be here in the first place and were just biding there time with us. Dennis Green when he came here said this was an attitude that he had to change. Your top picks have to want to come to your program and be part of the solution. Some work out some don't

 

[Renz]

Josh should remain the starting Qb for the rest of the season.......

Coaches bent of designing most of the plays that keep him in the pocket when they know darn well that the O-Line is crap, must take most of the blame for the lost.

The coaching staff have to be held accountable by fans on game day for not designing plays that complement strengths and cover up weaknesses.

McCown has a strong arm, he can take a good hit, he can tuck the ball and run to move the chains, he is not that good a pocket passer, Cards have poor running game, and the O-Line is weak and often kept on their heals--that's what they have to work with for the rest of the season.

So why on earth are the coaches designing plays as if they got a strong O-Line and good running game to support the Qb?

Have you watched McCown throw on the run this season? He is about as inaccurate outside of the pocket as any QB in the league.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Neither will be on the team. Id at least like to see a future HOF play than a backup. At least Warner would make the price of admission or NFL package worth it.

 

[joeshmo]

Nice reply Duckjake! I never said every cardinal player leaves and gets better it happens period just the past few years Jake, Pittman, Chavous, TJ,

You have one bad example in your arguement.

Chavous had one good year with 8 INT's, but at the same time he gave up a ton of TD's, long balls, ect. And was apart of one of the worst pass D's in the league. What has he done since then. He is not a player taht I miss. Fans in Minny have been calling for his head and an upgrade at FS for a long time now.

 

[Rats]

Neither will be on the team. Id at least like to see a future HOF play than a backup. At least Warner would make the price of admission or NFL package worth it.

So you would like to see Warner (very debatable that he goes into the Hall) for entertainment value behind this line....kinda like a turkey shoot I do agree at this point it is less likely that either will be back next season but this may change depending on the last 8 games. I would like both back and for us to fix the OLine and give them a decent running game.

 

[CaptTurbo]

You have one bad example in your arguement.
.

He had more than 1 bad example

 

[CaliCards]

Have you watched McCown throw on the run this season? He is about as inaccurate outside of the pocket as any QB in the league.

This season when he did, he seems uncomfortable doing it. But from the few times I saw him in pre-season games with Coach Mac, he seemed more confortable throwing on the run than he is now.

Perhaps someone who attends practice and saw him workout during training camp can comment.

 

[Russ Smith]

I have to agree that you could put in any great quarterback (Dan Marino, John Elway, Joe Montana, etc...) in their prime and they would look terrible! I watch Big Ben and Eli Manning and they make as many mistakes as Josh may make. Josh also makes some great plays like they do.

Sorry guys, but this loss wasn't all Josh's fault and in fact, probably only a small part of the reason.

Yep, Ben is playing on 2 bad knees, clearly in pain all night, made one really dumb pass they picked off, and despite throwing the ball 30 times which everyone insists he can't do, he doesn't beat Pittsburgh because he made only one big mistake all night, made several key throws and succeeded. You put Josh out there in that kind of pain and ask him to play against Baltimore I seriosly doubt he's going to show the same level of patience to take what they give him.

 

[AZCB34]

Yep, Ben is playing on 2 bad knees, clearly in pain all night, made one really dumb pass they picked off, and despite throwing the ball 30 times which everyone insists he can't do, he doesn't beat Pittsburgh because he made only one big mistake all night, made several key throws and succeeded. You put Josh out there in that kind of pain and ask him to play against Baltimore I seriosly doubt he's going to show the same level of patience to take what they give him.

I thought Ben also showed alot of poise and patience in the pocket with BAL rushing hard. While I think Josh would show a better game behind PIT's OL, I do not think he would stack up to what Ben is able to accomplish behind the line.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think Duckjake was just trying to have a sense of humor about this club. By and large the higher draft picks that leave go on to be successful in varying degrees elsewhere. Those are usually the ones everyone points to as "if we had only coached them up". The fact is that several of them did not want to be here in the first place and were just biding there time with us. Dennis Green when he came here said this was an attitude that he had to change. Your top picks have to want to come to your program and be part of the solution. Some work out some don't

I agree, Jake didn't want to be part of the program or part of the solution that's why he never once attended the offseason workouts, and why he openly admits he spent his downtime hosting videogame and foosball tournaments at his house instead of watching film.

No question Denver has given him better coaching but a large part of that is Jake realized when he got to Denver that if he coasted there like he did here, he'd be run out of town on a rail because Denver fans compare every QB to Elway and they didn't care that Jake nearly led ASU to a national title, they just saw all the picks in his prior 6 years and said he better not do that here.


That a guy can play 6 years for a team, 4 of them as the highest paid member of the team, and fail to attend even one single offseason workout tells you the guy wasn't dedicated to getting better.

He finally is and now he's playing better.

 

[CaptTurbo]

kinda like a turkey shoot .

I dont understand why many posters think this. Warner was just as effective avoiding the rush. You dont need to be a sprinter to be a good scrambler. His sidesteps and step ups are just as effective. Bledsoe and many other QB's use the same tactics.

 

[AZCB34]

Neither will be on the team. Id at least like to see a future HOF play than a backup. At least Warner would make the price of admission or NFL package worth it.

Your utter hatred of Josh actually made you type that Warner is a future HoF QB in your post. WOW. I don't even think it is debateable...Warner should not be considered for HoF. Sorry, I gotta laugh again

 

[joeshmo]

Your utter hatred of Josh actually made you type that Warner is a future HoF QB in your post. WOW. I don't even think it is debateable...Warner should not be considered for HoF. Sorry, I gotta laugh again

I wouldnt laugh to hard.

Warner has the numbers, MVP's, and super bowls to at the very least be a strong canidate.

His name appears very often in the NFL record books:

PASSER RATING
Highest Passer Rating, Career (1,500 attempts)
96.8 Steve Young, Tampa Bay, 1985-86; San Francisco, 1987-1999
95.7 Kurt Warner, St. Louis, 1998-2003; N.Y. Giants, 2004
93.2 Daunte Culpepper, Minneosta, 1999-2004

COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
Most Consecutive Seasons Leading League
6 Len Dawson, Kansas City, 1964-69
4 Steve Young, San Francisco, 1994-97
3 Sammy Baugh, Washington, 1947-49
Otto Graham, Cleveland, 1953-55
Milt Plum, Cleveland, 1959-1961
Kurt Warner, St. Louis, 1999-2001

Highest Completion Percentage, Career (1,500 attempts)
65.90 Kurt Warner, St. Louis, 1998-2003; N.Y. Giants, 2004 (1,965-1,295)
64.37 Daunte Culpepper, Minnesota, 1999-2004 (2,391-1,539)
64.28 Steve Young, Tampa Bay, 1985-86; San Francisco, 1987-1999 (4,149-2,667)

Most Yards Gained, Season
5,084 Dan Marino, Miami, 1984
4,830 Kurt Warner, St. Louis, 2001
4,802 Dan Fouts, San Diego, 1981

Most Games, 300 or More Yards Passing, Season
10 Rich Gannon, Oakland, 2002
9 Dan Marino, Miami, 1984
Warren Moon, Houston, 1990
Kurt Warner, St. Louis, 1999
Kurt Warner, St. Louis, 2001
8 Dan Fouts, San Diego, 1980
Kurt Warner, St. Louis, 2000
Trent Green, Kansas City, 200

Most Consecutive Games, 300 or More Yards Passing
6 Steve Young, San Francisco, 1998
Kurt Warner, St. Louis, 2000
Rich Gannon, Oakland, 2002
5 Joe Montana, San Francisco, 1982
Kerry Collins, N.Y. Giants, 2001-02
4 Dan Fouts, San Diego, 1979
Dan Fouts, San Diego, 1980-81
Bill Kenney, Kansas City, 1983
Joe Montana, San Francisco, 1985-86
Joe Montana, San Francisco, 1990
Warren Moon, Houston, 1990
Drew Bledsoe, New England, 1993-94
Kurt Warner, St. Louis, 1999
Brian Griese, Denver, 2002
Daunte Culpepper, Minnesota, 2004
Trent Green, Kansas City, 2004

AVERAGE GAIN
Most Seasons Leading League
7 Sid Luckman, Chi. Bears, 1939-1943, 1946-47
5 Steve Young, San Francisco, 1991-94, 1997
3 Arnie Herber, Green Bay, 1932, 1934, 1936
Norm Van Brocklin, Los Angeles, 1950, 1952, 1954
Len Dawson, Dall. Texans, 1962; Kansas City, 1966, 1968
Bart Starr, Green Bay, 1966-68
Kurt Warner, St. Louis, 1999-2001
Most Consecutive Seasons Leading League
5 Sid Luckman, Chi. Bears, 1939-1943
4 Steve Young, San Francisco, 1991-94
3 Bart Starr, Green Bay, 1966-68
Kurt Warner, St. Louis, 1999-2001

Highest Average Gain, Career (1,500 attempts)
8.63 Otto Graham, Cleveland, 1950-55 (1,565-13,499)
8.42 Sid Luckman, Chi. Bears, 1939-1950 (1,744-14,686)
8.40 Kurt Warner, St. Louis, 1998-2003; N.Y. Giants, 2004 (1,965-16,501)

 

[moklerman]

Wow, it's almost still amazing to me what ol' Kurt did in that 3-year span but I think he's going to need to get in on the "Joe Namath" card if he makes it into the HOF. Basically, if he goes in it will be on celebrity and notoriety rather than longevity. But, that's not to say that I don't think he has a chance. At this point, I would agree that he will at least be considered which is an honor in itself. His "against all odds, rag's to riches" story will still cary some weight but it's going to be one last against the odds battle for him to make it in.

Now, speaking of KW, has anyone heard if he's going to actually get to play this week against Seattle?

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Your utter hatred of Josh actually made you type that Warner is a future HoF QB in your post. WOW. I don't even think it is debateable...Warner should not be considered for HoF. Sorry, I gotta laugh again

Not usre what world you live in but Warner is probably going into the HOF with his numbers, superbowl win, and MVP awards.

You may not like him and think it isnt even debateable but frankly, you would be flat wrong!

 

[Rats]

Wow, it's almost still amazing to me what ol' Kurt did in that 3-year span but I think he's going to need to get in on the "Joe Namath" card if he makes it into the HOF. Basically, if he goes in it will be on celebrity and notoriety rather than longevity. But, that's not to say that I don't think he has a chance. At this point, I would agree that he will at least be considered which is an honor in itself. His "against all odds, rag's to riches" story will still cary some weight but it's going to be one last against the odds battle for him to make it in.

Now, speaking of KW, has anyone heard if he's going to actually get to play this week against Seattle?

When asked yesterday on his radio show how he was going to get Josh more protection he answered the question. He did not say that Josh was going to be undercenter he just answered the question as it was asked. DG likes smoke and mirrors. I think he gives Josh the nod this week with a short leash. I think he still thinks the Cards could be one of the 6 playoff teams. If Josh sucks again this week...we should get a steady diet of Kurt unless he gets hurt again. I think that might be DG fear that he yanks Josh and Kurt gets hurt and he has to go back to Josh or Navarre. That would make an ugly season uglier. Kurt healthy for the last 8 games would be really good. Of course I would like the team to win 3 in a row and get back in this....would not want to take the odds on either happening.

 

[TheCardFan]

If Warner is 100%...he should start.

 

[Evil Ash]

If Warner is 100%...he should start.

Why? There is no point in it.

The season is over folks the sooner people get to this realization the better. I could see a "start Navarre" type campaign to see if he has a future. The only thing to do at this point is to see if the two young QBs have a future.

Warner starting does absolutely nothing and considering the Oline troubles I'm sure he'd prefer to ride the pine and get a contract to go somewhere else next year.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Your utter hatred of Josh actually made you type that Warner is a future HoF QB in your post. WOW. I don't even think it is debateable...Warner should not be considered for HoF. Sorry, I gotta laugh again

Your nuts to think he wont be in the hall. Im not even a Warner fan. How many superbowl MVP's have there been in the league with 2 superbowl wins at QB?

 

[CaptTurbo]

Why? There is no point in it.

The season is over folks the sooner people get to this realization the better. I could see a "start Navarre" type campaign to see if he has a future. The only thing to do at this point is to see if the two young QBs have a future.

Warner starting does absolutely nothing and considering the Oline troubles I'm sure he'd prefer to ride the pine and get a contract to go somewhere else next year.

Ok Navarre then. Lets see what he has got. Now he might get killed.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Why? There is no point in it.

The season is over folks the sooner people get to this realization the better.

Really? If the Cards Manage to pull off a win this weekend, they will only be 2 games out of first place in the west. As crazy as it sounds it is still possible.

You give up way too easily!

 

[moklerman]

Why? There is no point in it.

Why play Fitzgerald, then? You know what he can do and all they would be doing is risking him getting injured. I'm just being flippant but you put your best people on the field each week and the 1-7, 2004 Panthers should be a constant reminder to anyone that wants to give up on a season half way through it. They controlled their destiny(I think) with 1 game left in the season and almost made the playoffs.

 

[Evil Ash]

Really? If the Cards Manage to pull off a win this weekend, they will only be 2 games out of first place in the west. As crazy as it sounds it is still possible.

You give up way too easily!

Considering the schedule left and our inability to win on the road. I've got a crazy hunch the season is over ... we'll be lucky to go 8-8

 

[clif]

Dear God.. anyone but Warner. Cut McCown or Warner and bring back Davey for all I care.

Warner is washed up!! I hate these washed up has been QB's.!!!

 

[Russ Smith]

OT anybody else keep reading the title as McCown has been shot...bench him?