Most Depressing News

[kerouac9]

Fullbacks as good or better than Hodgins

Originally posted by Shane H
I would like to see you name 7 FBs as good or better than Hodgins. Also tell me ehy you think there better if you dont mind or care to take the time?

Cory Schlesinger, DET - My personal favorite fullback in the NFL. He's a devastating blocker against LBs behind the Lions' above-avgerage offensive line, is a tough and successful inside runner that you can give the ball to five times per game, and has soft hands in the flat as an outlet. The success of moderately-talented James Stewart is a testament to his ability.
Lorenzo Neal, SD - Regarded as the best fullback in the NFL. Ask Corey Dillon or Eddie George. He does it everywhere he goes.
Jon Richie, PHI - Formerly of the Raiders. Enormously tough player, can level blockers out of the backfield, especially around the corner (this is Charlie Garner we're talking about here), also has soft hands out of the backfield, and can get yards on the inside.
Rob Konrad, MIA - You don't lead the NFL in rushing without a pretty good fullback in front of you, especially behind the only average Dolphins' offensive line.
Mike Anderson, DEN - Can run, catch, and block. Is a team player who bulked up to play FB to help his team and get on the field.
Sam Gash, BUF - Travis Henry rand for 1400+ yards last season, and Gash was a big reason why. Also, how can you not love a fullback who's name is "Gash"?
Fred Beasley, SF - Can also run, catch, and block. Is the cornerstone to the 49ers successful rushing attack, especailly because they don't run a lot of Ace formations.

That's seven, and Schlesinger, Neal, Richie, Konrad, and Anderson are easily better than James Hodgins.

 

[kerouac9]

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Originally posted by HookemCards
Using the same analogy with a bit of a caveat: You are a rich, rich man only rumor has it you have herpes.

This post just made the whole thread worthwhile. Thanks, Hook'em. I guess that if the Cards go below 7-9 again this season, the "herpes" rumor is going to persist. It's the little things that kill this club, and one of those little things is the unwillingness to believe that the players you already have (Tanner, Davis, Wakefield, Rhinehart) are not better than other teams' castoffs (Wilkinson, Coleman, Molden). If the castoffs still think that they're too good to hang with us (which I think is what Shane was saying), then we're in worse shape than we think.

 

[RedStorm]

Originally posted by conraddobler

...
I think the Bidwill's told him we need x amount of $ for the stadium and that is the whole reason we are saving so much cap space.

...

I absolutely, with out a doubt, believe in the truth of your statement.

 

[Jttsaz]

Re: Fullbacks as good or better than Hodgins

Originally posted by kerouac9
Cory Schlesinger, DET - My personal favorite fullback in the NFL. He's a devastating blocker against LBs behind the Lions' above-avgerage offensive line, is a tough and successful inside runner that you can give the ball to five times per game, and has soft hands in the flat as an outlet. The success of moderately-talented James Stewart is a testament to his ability.
Lorenzo Neal, SD - Regarded as the best fullback in the NFL. Ask Corey Dillon or Eddie George. He does it everywhere he goes.
Jon Richie, PHI - Formerly of the Raiders. Enormously tough player, can level blockers out of the backfield, especially around the corner (this is Charlie Garner we're talking about here), also has soft hands out of the backfield, and can get yards on the inside.
Rob Konrad, MIA - You don't lead the NFL in rushing without a pretty good fullback in front of you, especially behind the only average Dolphins' offensive line.
Mike Anderson, DEN - Can run, catch, and block. Is a team player who bulked up to play FB to help his team and get on the field.
Sam Gash, BUF - Travis Henry rand for 1400+ yards last season, and Gash was a big reason why. Also, how can you not love a fullback who's name is "Gash"?
Fred Beasley, SF - Can also run, catch, and block. Is the cornerstone to the 49ers successful rushing attack, especailly because they don't run a lot of Ace formations.

That's seven, and Schlesinger, Neal, Richie, Konrad, and Anderson are easily better than James Hodgins.

Holly ****! You mean the Cardinals have Herpes?? It's bad enough that they haven't won many games but now this

 

[RedStorm]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Most Depressing News

Originally posted by HookemCards
Let me see if I can maybe help with what Shane is trying to say. Using the same analogy with a bit of a caveat: You are a rich, rich man only rumor has it you have herpes. You may or may not have it, but the perception from women is that you do. I think the better women (Colvin, Holliday) are going to think twice about marrying (signing a long term deal) when there is another man almost as rich w/o herpes offering too. Graves has to deal with all the stuff previous GM's have done here, and lets face it thats a pretty big hurdle. So whats he doing, starting with the fairly attractive women (Hodgins, Blake, Smith, Darling) in hopes to get the word out to the other women (Next years Colvin, Hollidays) that he doesn't indeed have herpes.

Hope I was helpful.

Did you read the AZCENTRAL.COM article today about Fergie. Our prior GM? Now, I think he wanted to make changes but made too many waves. He gets praise from Holmgren. Calls him a great football guy. Fergie proved it in Buffalo. Has a good reputation around the league. Why couldn't he make a difference here?

Because the herpes you are talking about is our ownership and their lack of football savy. I would go as far to say that if Bidwill ran any other business besides the subsidised franchise that he has he would have been broke long ago.

 

[40yearfan]

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Originally posted by RedStorm
Did you read the AZCENTRAL.COM article today about Fergie. Our prior GM? Now, I think he wanted to make changes but made too many waves. He gets praise from Holmgren. Calls him a great football guy. Fergie proved it in Buffalo. Has a good reputation around the league. Why couldn't he make a difference here?

Because the herpes you are talking about is our ownership and their lack of football savy. I would go as far to say that if Bidwill ran any other business besides the subsidised franchise that he has he would have been broke long ago.

RedStorm, this is complete BS and if you were a businessman, you would know that. You don't keep a business, any family business, into the third generation without having the ultimate in business knowledge. Less than 5% of family business make it into a third generation.

This business has not always been "subsidised" as you put it by TV revenue. The Bidwill's have gone through many hard times financially and managed to hold onto the team even without the other necessary revenue streams available to all the other franchises. Mr. B. might not have "football savy" as you so state, but he is an excellent businessman.

I'm sure that the fact that the Cards are having to stick $100 million of their own cash into the stadium is affecting how much cash they have available now for players. If this area did for the Cards what St. Louis did for the Rams, the Cards could also field a SB team in 2 - 3 years. It takes cash to run a team and if you don't have it, you're not going to be able to compete. That's why the Cards are hanging their hat on this new stadium. New revenue streams to make them competitive with the other 31 franchises.

 

[Cardiac]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Most Depressing News

Originally posted by RedStorm
Did you read the AZCENTRAL.COM article today about Fergie. Our prior GM? Now, I think he wanted to make changes but made too many waves. He gets praise from Holmgren. Calls him a great football guy. Fergie proved it in Buffalo. Has a good reputation around the league. Why couldn't he make a difference here?

Because the herpes you are talking about is our ownership and their lack of football savy. I would go as far to say that if Bidwill ran any other business besides the subsidised franchise that he has he would have been broke long ago.

I agree 100%. So now realize that RG seems to have a way of keeping Bidwill's Herpes in check. Fergie couldn't do it and Ryan enraged it. Fergie is a quality GM but he didn't have that extra talent of dealing with the Bidwill's effectively.

Billy is a recycled virgin (love these sexual references). It's been a long time since is last tragic releationship and is slowing allowing himself to get involved again. RG is being a gentleman and taking things real slow because he has to. Bidwill just isn't ready to get kinky or anything close to that at this point.

Old joke but still funny and poignant.

2 Bulls at the top of a hill over looking a pasture filled with cows. Young stud Bull says to Old Wise Bull, "Lets run down there and screw a couple of those cows".

Old Bull shakes his head and says "Let's walk down the hill and screw them all".

RG is taking the right approach and should be given time by some of the young Bulls on this site.

 

[Renz]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Most Depressing News

Originally posted by RedStorm
Did you read the AZCENTRAL.COM article today about Fergie. Our prior GM? Now, I think he wanted to make changes but made too many waves. He gets praise from Holmgren. Calls him a great football guy. Fergie proved it in Buffalo. Has a good reputation around the league. Why couldn't he make a difference here?

Because the herpes you are talking about is our ownership and their lack of football savy. I would go as far to say that if Bidwill ran any other business besides the subsidised franchise that he has he would have been broke long ago.

I disagree. In fact, if owners like Dan Snyder ran their businesses like they do their football teams, they would have been broke long ago. If Danny threw huge sums of money at past-their-prime players like Bruce Smith, Deion etc. in his real business he would never have become the wealthy man he is today.

The unpleasant fact is that the Cardinals don't have near the revenue stream of teams like Washington, Dallas, New York or an outside source bankrolling the team like a Paul Allen does. The Cardinals are the Bidwill's business and fiscal responsibility is part and parcel of running it.

That is just a fact that we have to live with.

 

[RedStorm]

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Originally posted by 40yearfan
RedStorm, this is complete BS and if you were a businessman, you would know that. You don't keep a business, any family business, into the third generation without having the ultimate in business knowledge. Less than 5% of family business make it into a third generation.

This business has not always been "subsidised" as you put it by TV revenue. The Bidwill's have gone through many hard times financially and managed to hold onto the team even without the other necessary revenue streams available to all the other franchises. Mr. B. might not have "football savy" as you so state, but he is an excellent businessman.

I'm sure that the fact that the Cards are having to stick $100 million of their own cash into the stadium is affecting how much cash they have available now for players. If this area did for the Cards what St. Louis did for the Rams, the Cards could also field a SB team in 2 - 3 years. It takes cash to run a team and if you don't have it, you're not going to be able to compete. That's why the Cards are hanging their hat on this new stadium. New revenue streams to make them competitive with the other 31 franchises.

What business are we in? Football. How do you measure success? Wins, Championships (I know we won one a long time ago but that was not with the current leadership). We have 12-14 million now. We have only spent up to 80% of our cap.

If you want to argue that success is defined as staying in business then that is your definition. However, for me, it is wins.

 

[ajcardfan]

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Originally posted by 40yearfan

I'm sure that the fact that the Cards are having to stick $100 million of their own cash into the stadium is affecting how much cash they have available now for players.

I find that to be a somewhat doubtful statement. Personally, after following this thing for years, I believe the Bidwills have to put in very little, if any, cash up front on this deal. They are on the hook for loans, yes. But, I have no idea when they have to make payments, so you may be right.

 

[Second Deck]

I was a basher of Graves and still think we could have gotten a draft pick for Boston if there had been some effort. I would think the same for Jones. That being said I think we had a good draft the FA we brought in will have a big impact more than in the past. I very much believe we are a better team this year than last. I still think we will be 8-8 with a win over the seahawks this weekend. I stated before after bashing Rod that it will be "in Rod I trust" no more bashing from me. We must keep the core group together and hope Blake does not get hurt.

 

[Renz]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Most Depressing News

Originally posted by RedStorm
What business are we in? Football. How do you measure success? Wins, Championships (I know we won one a long time ago but that was not with the current leadership). We have 12-14 million now. We have only spent up to 80% of our cap.

If you want to argue that success is defined as staying in business then that is your definition. However, for me, it is wins.

Just because we are $12 mil. under the cap doesn't mean it is just sitting there in the bank. The salary cap is just a number set by the NFL as the most a team can spend on salaries in a given year.

It has nothing to do with the financial health of a franchise.

 

[RedStorm]

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Originally posted by Renz
Just because we are $12 mil. under the cap doesn't mean it is just sitting there in the bank. The salary cap is just a number set by the NFL as the most a team can spend on salaries in a given year.

It has nothing to do with the financial health of a franchise.

So how would you define success? I think we need to agree on some common ground.

 

[Renz]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Most Depressing News

Originally posted by RedStorm
So how would you define success? I think we need to agree on some common ground.

I agree that winning is the measure of success in the NFL, but there are different ways to get there. Some owners throw money around like it is going out of style and sometimes it works, but for the most part it doesn't.

Do you believe that the Bidwill's don't want to win? I believe they do, but they have hamstrung themselves with out-dated business practices like inflexibility on rookie contracts etc. I've seen some signs that things may be changing for the better, but you can't reverse decades of futility overnight.

I really believe that no one loves the Cardinals more than Bill Bidwill and that this thing will get turned around.

 

[RedStorm]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Most Depressing News

Originally posted by Renz
I agree that winning is the measure of success in the NFL, but there are different ways to get there. Some owners throw money around like it is going out of style and sometimes it works, but for the most part it doesn't.

Do you believe that the Bidwill's don't want to win? I believe they do, but they have hamstrung themselves with out-dated business practices like inflexibility on rookie contracts etc. I've seen some signs that things may be changing for the better, but you can't reverse decades of futility overnight.

I really believe that no one loves the Cardinals more than Bill Bidwill and that this thing will get turned around.

I don't know if they (Bidwills ) don't want to win or they are not capable of it, or what. I do agree with you that they have outdated business practices but who's fault is that. He does not live in a vacuum.

Winning is the measurement of success in the NFL. It is how we determine success for sports. Bidwill has fired people because they have not won. So, I think winning is the bottom line indicator. It is black and white but I am not into grey.

 

[Cardiac]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Most Depressing News

Originally posted by 40yearfan
RedStorm, this is complete BS and if you were a businessman, you would know that. You don't keep a business, any family business, into the third generation without having the ultimate in business knowledge. Less than 5% of family business make it into a third generation.

This business has not always been "subsidised" as you put it by TV revenue. The Bidwill's have gone through many hard times financially and managed to hold onto the team even without the other necessary revenue streams available to all the other franchises. Mr. B. might not have "football savy" as you so state, but he is an excellent businessman.

I'm sure that the fact that the Cards are having to stick $100 million of their own cash into the stadium is affecting how much cash they have available now for players. If this area did for the Cards what St. Louis did for the Rams, the Cards could also field a SB team in 2 - 3 years. It takes cash to run a team and if you don't have it, you're not going to be able to compete. That's why the Cards are hanging their hat on this new stadium. New revenue streams to make them competitive with the other 31 franchises.

You just can't compare running a NFL franchise as a family owned business. Revenue sharing is what keeps all teams on a level playing field and allows idiots like Bidwill to survive finacially. In the NFL you can make a ton of money as an owner if you know what your'e doing. Bidwill has been around for 50 years and is still crying poverty. The Rams seem to be doing well in St. Louis, how come Billy couldn't make it happen there?

If a team wants to make money they need to field a winning team more than once a decade. Especially when deciding to move to a state like AZ. with all of the transplants from other areas. If I'm a Cards fan who lives in Pa. why would a Packers fan who moved to AZ. want to jump ship and root for a team that is run so poorly? So Bidwill takes his flailing organization to an area that already has a large base of Cowboys fans and is transient in nature. Puts a crappy product on the field and wonders why he is drawing 20 k fans in a horrible stadium. The sad thing is I do think he is confused by this.

Bidwill in any other business would go out of business. He's handed a gold mine (NFL team) and can't make that a true success. It's just pitiful.


Snyder at least made his money himself, he didn't inherit it like Bidwill. I can't stand Snyder but he is 8 times the business man as Bidwill. Even with Snyders obvious and numerous blunders his team has won more games then the Cards this decade. His team will win more games than the Cards this year. His team is worth more money than any other team in the NFL and I think all of pro sports. Yeah he sucks as a business man.

 

[Renz]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Most Depressing News

Originally posted by Cardiac
You just can't compare running a NFL franchise as a family owned business. Revenue sharing is what keeps all teams on a level playing field and allows idiots like Bidwill to survive finacially. In the NFL you can make a ton of money as an owner if you know what your'e doing. Bidwill has been around for 50 years and is still crying poverty. The Rams seem to be doing well in St. Louis, how come Billy couldn't make it happen there?

If a team wants to make money they need to field a winning team more than once a decade. Especially when deciding to move to a state like AZ. with all of the transplants from other areas. If I'm a Cards fan who lives in Pa. why would a Packers fan who moved to AZ. want to jump ship and root for a team that is run so poorly? So Bidwill takes his flailing organization to an area that already has a large base of Cowboys fans and is transient in nature. Puts a crappy product on the field and wonders why he is drawing 20 k fans in a horrible stadium. The sad thing is I do think he is confused by this.

Bidwill in any other business would go out of business. He's handed a gold mine (NFL team) and can't make that a true success. It's just pitiful.


Snyder at least made his money himself, he didn't inherit it like Bidwill. I can't stand Snyder but he is 8 times the business man as Bidwill. Even with Snyders obvious and numerous blunders his team has won more games then the Cards this decade. His team will win more games than the Cards this year. His team is worth more money than any other team in the NFL and I think all of pro sports. Yeah he sucks as a business man.

The Rams were given a shiny new stadium with huge revenue streams that Bidwill was not when the Cards were there.

The Redskins value has nothing to do with Snyder. They were worth more than $800 mil. before he bought them. All the moves Snyder has made up to this point have blown up in his face (Jeff George, Deion, Bruce Smith) and he hasn't come close to bringing a Super Bowl to Washington. Washington missed the playoffs last year and they will again this year. He is a good businessman, but so far he hasn't done anything as an owner, but throw money away.

By the way, where on this thread does anyone say that Snyder "sucks as a businessman"?

 

[Cardiac]

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Originally posted by Renz
I disagree. In fact, if owners like Dan Snyder ran their businesses like they do their football teams, they would have been broke long ago. If Danny threw huge sums of money at past-their-prime players like Bruce Smith, Deion etc. in his real business he would never have become the wealthy man he is today.

I reread the post. OOPS

 

[Cardiac]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Most Depressing News

Originally posted by Renz
The Rams were given a shiny new stadium with huge revenue streams that Bidwill was not when the Cards were there.

The Redskins value has nothing to do with Snyder. They were worth more than $800 mil. before he bought them. All the moves Snyder has made up to this point have blown up in his face (Jeff George, Deion, Bruce Smith) and he hasn't come close to bringing a Super Bowl to Washington. Washington missed the playoffs last year and they will again this year. He is a good businessman, but so far he hasn't done anything as an owner, but throw money away.

By the way, where on this thread does anyone say that Snyder "sucks as a businessman"?

Why did the Rams get a shiny new stadium? Bidwill tried for years and couldn't get it done. Just in case you didn't know, St. Louis fans felt Billy would never put a winning team on the field. His horrible methods of running the team was what cost him a new stadium. Fans didn't and shouldn't trust him. Obviously they wanted to root for an NFL team but Bidwill wouldn't give them one.

Guess Snyder knows when and how to make his purchases in regards to real estate. Guess he is also a frustrated wanna be fantasy football owner. I agree his moves as an owner are less than stellar. I still put his record up against Bidwill's Cards record.
So if we both agree Snyder is an idiot of an owner and yet he still wins more games than Bidwill who is the worst owner?

That's right Bidwill. Just shout the answers out if you know them, it's okay.

 

[nidan]

How about an alternative view.

The public as a whole is cheap and because the Cardinals were not a pernial winner that couldn't get a new stadium.

When they left, the town realized they had lost their NFL francise and paid huge $$ to get another losing team. But surprise, when given lots of $$ the Rams statred improving. When they arrived in in SL they sucked.

Even the Felons who are worshiped in Dallas are having trouble getting a new stadium.

So don't put up that BS that says SL wouldn't give the Cardinals a new stadium, when in reality getting a new stadium for ANY team is fraught with rancor and public arguments.

However, I realize that suimplifing the story makes it easier to slam the Cards.

 

[RedStorm]

Originally posted by nidan
How about an alternative view.

The public as a whole is cheap and because the Cardinals were not a pernial winner that couldn't get a new stadium.

When they left, the town realized they had lost their NFL francise and paid huge $$ to get another losing team. But surprise, when given lots of $$ the Rams statred improving. When they arrived in in SL they sucked.

Even the Felons who are worshiped in Dallas are having trouble getting a new stadium.

So don't put up that BS that says SL wouldn't give the Cardinals a new stadium, when in reality getting a new stadium for ANY team is fraught with rancor and public arguments.

However, I realize that suimplifing the story makes it easier to slam the Cards.

Nidian,

Did you see my friendly wager?

 

[nidan]

The anser is CASH FLOW, there I shouted it for you.

The Skins have we do not until that changes niether will our overall success. We have or may not have good years but without CASH FLOW it can't change oin a consistant basis.

Why don't we have CASH FLOW, it's called a stadium. Heck some teams not only have new stadiums but have revenue gaurentees from the city as well.

 

[nidan]

Originally posted by RedStorm
Nidian,

Did you see my friendly wager?

Not yet

 

[Renz]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Most Depressing News

Originally posted by Cardiac
Why did the Rams get a shiny new stadium? Bidwill tried for years and couldn't get it done. Just in case you didn't know, St. Louis fans felt Billy would never put a winning team on the field. His horrible methods of running the team was what cost him a new stadium. Fans didn't and shouldn't trust him. Obviously they wanted to root for an NFL team but Bidwill wouldn't give them one.

Guess Snyder knows when and how to make his purchases in regards to real estate. Guess he is also a frustrated wanna be fantasy football owner. I agree his moves as an owner are less than stellar. I still put his record up against Bidwill's Cards record.
So if we both agree Snyder is an idiot of an owner and yet he still wins more games than Bidwill who is the worst owner?

That's right Bidwill. Just shout the answers out if you know them, it's okay.

The Rams got their stadium only because St. Louis ran the Cardinals out of town and the only way to get a new team was to build them a new stadium. Then the Rams re-paid the citizens by charging high prices for seat licenses to season ticket holders.

IMO no team would be successful playing in SDS. It is a fiery hell-hole and way below the standards of an NFL team.

And your characterization of the Bidwill's in St. Louis is way off. Ask '40 Year Fan' or other St. Louis natives. The Cardinals were good in the mid '70's. They won division titles in '74 & '75 and they also made the playoffs in 1982 and just missed making the playoffs in '84 with a 9-7 record. St. Louis didn't support the NFL until it was taken away from them.

And again, I never called Snyder an "idiot", but I don't think he sets the standard for owners either.

 

[nidan]

Originally posted by kerouac9
The same Aeneas Williams who was telling the papers that the Cards were too cheap to give free footballs to kids looking for autographs, but the Rams weren't?

The same Rob Moore who told the Fox Sports Mountain that he could have played his last season in Arizona, but didn't want to so he could get out of his contract?

The same Aeneas Williams who is talking BS about that. Sorry but when you come to small stuff they have already demonstrated to me that they aren't cheap like that. They have done some nice things for us over the last few months that demonstrate that this comment is BS.

The same Aeneas Williams that went to a franchise that has far more cash from their nice new digs and revenue gaurentees that us.

The same Rob Moore that never played another seaosn in the NFL.

Please, find some new cheap shots. Rod Graves wasn't even the GM then, so it's hard to blame him.