Nuggets @ Suns 12-29-18

Proximo

ASFN Icon
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Posts
12,833
Reaction score
10,803
Murray is the closest player to devin in the league imo.

People saying Denver doesn’t have enough star power for the playoffs, I just don’t agree.

Jokic and Murray are all star caliber. They are going to be at the top of the west for years, especially if porter recovers.
 

Evil Ash

Henchman Supreme
Joined
Jun 26, 2003
Posts
9,757
Reaction score
1,987
Location
On a flying cocoon
Yeah, I swear to God, he could lead the team to a perfect record the rest of the year, go undefeated next year and win a championship and people would still find a reason to criticize him. He is such a nice, likeable guy too. I just don't get it.

You'd think he inherited the team with the best record in the league last year instead of the worst one with a giant hole in our roster.

There are valid criticisms of him for sure and hopefully he is learning from them. He is still learning himself
 

SunnyBaller

All Star
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Posts
797
Reaction score
229
Location
Phoenix
I've been pretty critical of Igor myself but I like how he's got them playing right now, outside their first quarter blunders, but I'm not going to give another opinion on him until the end of the season.

But damn it's fun watching ayton and bridges , this could go down as the best draft class the suns has ever had if they keep developing
 

Suns_fan69

Official ASFN Lurker
Joined
Oct 2, 2002
Posts
3,667
Reaction score
2,066
Location
Vancouver, BC, Canada
I'm usually an Igor defender, but he really needs to add a play or two to get Ayton a catch deep in the post as opposed to on the elbow/free throw line extended. Ayton was obliterating them and they couldn't get him the ball consistently in the 2nd half. Part of that is Denver collapsing down leaving guys open on the outside but part of that is just the set that Suns have.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
64,158
Reaction score
59,174
Location
SoCal
I know they didn’t exactly light the world on fire, but curious about the limited mins the bench played.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,878
Reaction score
16,694
I'd much rather win but this was one of my favorite losses.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

Not So Skeptical
Joined
Aug 26, 2012
Posts
10,190
Reaction score
6,664
Murray is the closest player to devin in the league imo.

People saying Denver doesn’t have enough star power for the playoffs, I just don’t agree.

Jokic and Murray are all star caliber. They are going to be at the top of the west for years, especially if porter recovers.
Murray is averaging 18 ppg/5 apg on 42% from the field and 29% from 3. He torched us in this game, but he has a ways to go to be an all star level player.
 

SirStefan32

Krycek, Alex Krycek
Joined
Oct 15, 2002
Posts
18,497
Reaction score
4,913
Location
Harrisburg, PA
Murray is averaging 18 ppg/5 apg on 42% from the field and 29% from 3. He torched us in this game, but he has a ways to go to be an all star level player.

Yeah, tonight was crazy. They defended him fine. Most of his shots were contested. I am pretty sure he will never shoot 9 of 11 again. I doubt he'd make 8 of 11 if someone left him wide open 11 times in a game.
 

Hoop Head

ASFN Icon
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Posts
17,631
Reaction score
12,854
Location
Tempe, AZ
Murray is the closest player to devin in the league imo.

People saying Denver doesn’t have enough star power for the playoffs, I just don’t agree.

Jokic and Murray are all star caliber. They are going to be at the top of the west for years, especially if porter recovers.

I'm one of the people that think Denver lacks star power to go deep in the playoffs but I do think they'll be a top team in the West for years to come, if they can keep their core together. While Jokic and Murray may be All-Star caliber players they are just now hitting that point and it will take some postseason experience for them to be able to make a deep playoff run. Right now they lack that experience but in a year or two they're going to be a team that no one wants to face in a 7 game series because they have too many ways to beat you. They can put a scare in someone this year but I think that's about they'll do right now.
 

JCSunsfan

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 24, 2002
Posts
22,115
Reaction score
6,551
The right guard added to this team will make all the difference. It has to be the right player, not necessarily a star.
 

1Sun

ASFN Addict
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Sep 8, 2018
Posts
8,750
Reaction score
1,129
Location
Chandler, AZ
For those who think my take on Igor is racist, I ask you to ask yourself the following:

1. If you needed someone to head up an important business project at the highest level for you in, say, Japan, and what's more you needed that someone to train a key group of Japanese professionals to do what was necessary in order for that project to be successful, and if all of the professionals working on the project spoke only Japanese and no English, would you hire and send an American who did not speak fluent Japanese to get the job done for you? To answer my own question in parallel: I minored in Russian in college and can get by in Russian about as well as Igor Kokoskov can get by in English, and never in a million years would I send myself to head up an important business project in Russia where in order for the project to be successful I had to train a group of Russians who spoke only Russian and no English.

2. Language/nationality aside, if you were being instructed by someone who communicates like the public defender in My Cousin Vinny, would any of the instruction actually get through to you? Even if any of it did get through to you, would any of it inspire you to greatness?

This isn't about race. It isn't about nationality. It's about the skill set necessary to succeed in a critical position at the highest level in the world. Simply put, Igor Kokoskov does not have the skill set required for the position.

If this team/franchise is to be taken seriously by anybody, including its own players, it must not hold any of its professional leaders to a lower standard just because that leader was born outside the United States. Either the man can be a head coach at this level or he can't. This team needs leadership, communication and inspiration from its head coach. In my opinion, Igor Kokoskov offers none of that any more than Earl Watson did, and I think his communication deficiencies are a big reason why, as is the fact that he is trying to force a square peg into a round hole by converting his NBA team into more of a European team. Igor Kokoskov has been a good NBA assistant where he hasn't had to assume the leadership mantle in terms of communication to his players. He has had success as a head coach in Europe where he could instruct and lead his team in his native language, which he speaks fluently. None of that makes him qualified to be an NBA head coach.

I cringe every time I hear Igor Kokoskov interviewed, as he struggles to put together a coherent sentence and stumbles over every other word. How do you think his players feel if he speaks the same way to them? How do expect his players to respond when they see everyone else playing NBA style ball while their coach is trying to force them to play a style that clearly does not work in the NBA?

Before you play the race/nationality card with me, I simply ask you to apply the same standards to Igor Kokoskov as you would to any other head coach in the NBA. Is that asking too much?

(And for those of you who are inclined to say "give him a break, it's his first year as head coach", I respond that if this team/franchise is to be taken seriously by anybody, including its own players, the professional leadership it hires should actually be qualified to do the job for which it is hired when it is hired. It makes zero sense to me for anybody to seek to hire someone who is unqualified with the hope that someday he will become qualified.)
 
Last edited:

1tinsoldier

Hall of Famer
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Posts
1,485
Reaction score
558
Location
AZ
Sun, i didn't read your post because you didn't need to write it. your point about communication is perfectly understandable. any "racist" accusations are contrived by those who are overly defensive about your criticisms.

but i believe Igor's communication problem has nothing to do with language. even if he spoke perfect english

i suspect he doesn't say enough, doesn't say things forcefully enough or passionately enough, and doesn't have enough good ideas to convey in the first place. there's evidence of this in just about every game

tonight, Ayton goes off. Murray goes off.
either Denver coach adjusted and contained Ayton or Suns coach failed to continue exploiting Ayton to his advantage.
while either the Suns coach could not adjust for Murray, or Murray is a superstar

and the usual suspects want to give Igor credit for the Suns coming back from down 25
but no blame for getting down by 25 in the first place

i enjoyed this basketball game either way.
it's the blame game vs the no-blame game that's getting boring
 

1Sun

ASFN Addict
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Sep 8, 2018
Posts
8,750
Reaction score
1,129
Location
Chandler, AZ
Sun, i didn't read your post because you didn't need to write it. your point about communication is perfectly understandable. any "racist" accusations are contrived by those who are overly defensive about your criticisms.

but i believe Igor's communication problem has nothing to do with language. even if he spoke perfect english

i suspect he doesn't say enough, doesn't say things forcefully enough or passionately enough, and doesn't have enough good ideas to convey in the first place. there's evidence of this in just about every game

tonight, Ayton goes off. Murray goes off.
either Denver coach adjusted and contained Ayton or Suns coach failed to continue exploiting Ayton to his advantage.
while either the Suns coach could not adjust for Murray, or Murray is a superstar

and the usual suspects want to give Igor credit for the Suns coming back from down 25
but no blame for getting down by 25 in the first place

i enjoyed this basketball game either way.
it's the blame game vs the no-blame game that's getting boring

Your point is well taken. I am left to wonder, however, how Igor has had any success as an assistant or as a head coach in Europe if he has little or no substantive knowledge (i.e.: "good ideas"). That leads me back to my focus on the means by which he communicates his substantive knowledge, as well as the level of fit of his substantive knowledge with the American game that is the NBA. From experience (I used to do work both in Russian and in Spanish), I can tell you that it is incredibly difficult, if not impossible, to be fully passionate or forceful in a language in which you are proficient but not fluent. It's even harder in high stress or quick thinking situations (such as games). Your thoughts naturally revert back to your native language, and things get lost in translation.
 

95pro

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 10, 2007
Posts
12,788
Reaction score
4,233
Ayton was good.

Booker terrible in the first half.

Melton needs to only play the first 6 minutes then get subbed out. He’s borderline useless now. He’s also been getting lit up on defense. I like that he plays hard D but can’t buy a call.

Oubre was eh again.

Great almost comeback. Was amazing to watch. They should have started fouling a little earlier.
 

devilalum

Heavily Redacted
Joined
Jul 30, 2002
Posts
16,776
Reaction score
3,187
Can we move on?

Ayton looked good.
Ayton was amazing in the second quarter.
WHY DID HE GET 3 TOUCHES IN THE THIRD QUARTER???

After the game Eddie and Tom were both as bewildered as I am.

For the most part he can't create his own scoring opportunities. He can score off offensive rebounds but he needs a PG that can feed him when he has a mismatch.

If you look back at the game Jokic had against Ayton a while back and compare it to last night you will see how much Ayton has grown.

Has anybody else noticed an Ayton attitude shift since the Suns cleaned up the Ariza?
 

95pro

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 10, 2007
Posts
12,788
Reaction score
4,233
Has anybody else noticed an Ayton attitude shift since the Suns cleaned up the Ariza?

Overall they all seem to have better attitudes since we got rid of him.

Early in the season I mentioned that something wasn’t right behind scenes. I stated it was speculation but couldn’t quite put my finger on it.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,878
Reaction score
16,694
Overall they all seem to have better attitudes since we got rid of him.

Early in the season I mentioned that something wasn’t right behind scenes. I stated it was speculation but couldn’t quite put my finger on it.

Maybe they just hired a Chef?
 

taz02

All Star
Joined
May 8, 2007
Posts
935
Reaction score
462
For some posters, it's for good reason

They fought back this game and yet there will be plenty here that will give Igor zero credit for it

Maybe you are right but disagreeing with you doesn't make someone a racist.
 
OP
OP
Mainstreet

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
119,356
Reaction score
59,967
The number one priority in a point guard for the Suns is someone who loves to pass to the big man.

Any thoughts when the Suns will add a point guard?

My guess the Suns will wait until the summer unless they get the right player at the trade deadline.

The Suns are likely not wanting to devalue their first round pick.
 

devilalum

Heavily Redacted
Joined
Jul 30, 2002
Posts
16,776
Reaction score
3,187
Any thoughts when the Suns will add a point guard?

My guess the Suns will wait until the summer unless they get the right player at the trade deadline.

The Suns are likely not wanting to devalue their first round pick.

And I don't like the idea of trading any of our 4 wings. You can't really trade Oubre. I think his trade value is the lowest of the 4. TJ is definitely the best of the lot at this moment in time. Bridges may already be the best defender and JJ's athleticism is clearly a notch above the other 3.

Might be nice to add a cheap rental at the deadline. Let the Suns see which players shine the brightest with an actual PG. People haven't talked about this but the Suns second round pick is currently #32.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,878
Reaction score
16,694
Any thoughts when the Suns will add a point guard?

My guess the Suns will wait until the summer unless they get the right player at the trade deadline.

The Suns are likely not wanting to devalue their first round pick.

I wish. From the comments that James Jones has made I think they are like so many fans here, they'd do just about anything for a point guard so we could win an extra 5 or 10 more games this season.
 
Top