Nuggets @ Suns 12-29-18

[AzStevenCal]

Might be nice to add a cheap rental at the deadline. Let the Suns see which players shine the brightest with an actual PG. People haven't talked about this but the Suns second round pick may turn out to be 2 or 3 slots after the Bucks pick.

It's highly unlikely that we'll get that Bucks pick this season. We only get it this season if it falls between 4 and 16 and that's not going to happen.

 

[devilalum]

It's highly unlikely that we'll get that Bucks pick this season. We only get it this season if it falls between 4 and 16 and that's not going to happen.

I just remembered that and changed my post. The Suns do currently have the #32 pick though. Teams often value that pick more than 25-30 in the first round.

 

[Mainstreet]

And I don't like the idea of trading any of our 4 wings. You can't really trade Oubre. I think his trade value is the lowest of the 4. TJ is definitely the best of the lot at this moment in time. Bridges may already be the best defender and JJ's athleticism is clearly a notch above the other 3.

Might be nice to add a cheap rental at the deadline. Let the Suns see which players shine the brightest with an actual PG. People haven't talked about this but the Suns second round pick may turn out to be 2 or 3 slots after the Bucks pick.

I'm not for the Suns trading one of their wings either unless it's for a special player.

I think the Suns need to keep their talent base and add to it.

It would be nice if free agency were before the draft so the Suns would know if they can fill their point guard needs there. The Suns have enough holes I think they always have room to add talent through the draft.

Usually there are some good bargains at the trade deadline where teams with playoff aspirations realize they are not going anywhere. Perhaps this is where the Suns can use the Bucks pick and/or their second round player to see how it works out, i.e., Elfrid Payton

 

[Mainstreet]

I wish. From the comments that James Jones has made I think they are like so many fans here, they'd do just about anything for a point guard so we could win an extra 5 or 10 more games this season.

When I talk about the Suns not wanting to devalue their first round pick I'm looking at it as a trade asset.

I'd like to keep the pick of course but if the Suns decide to trade it, the more value it has the better. If the Suns trade it, they better get a proven point guard out of the deal... for the future.

 

[Suns_fan69]

The thing is, a competent PG will help feed Ayton on PnRs, but post entry usually happens with wing players. We have long wings in Oubre, JJ and Bridges, they should be the ones that should be able to get the ball down low to Ayton. He's not getting fed down low because of a combination of mediocre positioning/seals by Ayton and the fact he's out of the lane on a number of their offensive plays.

 

[1Sun]

I wish. From the comments that James Jones has made I think they are like so many fans here, they'd do just about anything for a point guard so we could win an extra 5 or 10 more games this season.

Not so we could win an extra 5 or 10 more game this season. So we can actually develop our young players instead of the 2 steps forward, 3 steps back, we are constantly seeing.

 

[1Sun]

It's highly unlikely that we'll get that Bucks pick this season. We only get it this season if it falls between 4 and 16 and that's not going to happen.

The Bucks pick is going to end up converting to two useless second round picks. We should have unloaded it when we had the chance. We got absolutely fleeced in that trade.

 

[Suns_fan69]

That's not possible.

It's top 3 and #17-30 protected in 2019, top 7 in 2020, unprotected in 2021.

Most likely scenario is we'll get it in 2020, somewhere in the 24-30 range, as Milwaukee will likely be in the playoffs as one of the top team in the east.

 

[1Sun]

That's not possible.

It's top 3 and #17-30 protected in 2019, top 7 in 2020, unprotected in 2021.

Most likely scenario is we'll get it in 2020, somewhere in the 24-30 range, as Milwaukee will likely be in the playoffs as one of the top team in the east.

My understanding of the trade is that it converts to two seconds in 2021, rather than becoming an unprotected first. And I thought there was back-end protection (something like 20-30) in 2020 as well.

 

[1tinsoldier]

Overall they all seem to have better attitudes since we got rid of him.

Early in the season I mentioned that something wasn’t right behind scenes. I stated it was speculation but couldn’t quite put my finger on it.

my guess is Ariz, Chandler, and others who have played for stronger coaches, didn't respect Igor's authority and extreme losing compounded the situation

 

[SirStefan32]

Lol, why am I not surprised Igor is being blamed? This is hilarious.

 

[1Sun]

Lol, why am I not surprised Igor is being blamed? This is hilarious.

How can you NOT blame him when his franchise center sets scoring records in the second quarter only to barely touch the ball in the third?

 

[1Sun]

my guess is Ariz, Chandler, and others who have played for stronger coaches, didn't respect Igor's authority and extreme losing compounded the situation

Ariza himself has been quoted all but confirming this.

 

[BC867]

Your point is well taken. I am left to wonder, however, how Igor has had any success as an assistant or as a head coach in Europe if he has little or no substantive knowledge (i.e.: "good ideas"). That leads me back to my focus on the means by which he communicates his substantive knowledge, as well as the level of fit of his substantive knowledge with the American game that is the NBA. From experience (I used to do work both in Russian and in Spanish), I can tell you that it is incredibly difficult, if not impossible, to be fully passionate or forceful in a language in which you are proficient but not fluent. It's even harder in high stress or quick thinking situations (such as games). Your thoughts naturally revert back to your native language, and things get lost in translation.

What does it matter WHY Igor has not shown strength as a Head Coach? Whether it is a language problem or leadership/tactitian problem, or both or neither, he is not showing the strength needed to be the guy at the top for a variety of reasons. Especially on a team as young as the Suns.

The NBA, after all, is the most talented basketball league in the world. A Euro head coach/long term NBA assistant turning into an NBA leader is not a guarantee. Especially on a team with a meddling owner and constant turnover and uncertainty at the GM position.

All the more reason to not put our hopes into a passive Head Coach. Igor's demeanor just does not fit the situation. Which is always the consideration of a Head Coach. Does his skillset fit the situation at the time? With Igor, the answer is sadly, "No!"

 

[1Sun]

What does it matter WHY Igor has not shown strength as a Head Coach? Whether it is a language problem or leadership/tactitian problem, or both or neither, he is not showing the strength needed to be the guy at the top for a variety of reasons. Especially on a team as young as the Suns.

The NBA, after all, is the most talented basketball league in the world. A Euro head coach/long term NBA assistant turning into an NBA leader is not a guarantee. Especially on a team with a meddling owner and constant turnover and uncertainty at the GM position.

All the more reason to not put our hopes into a passive Head Coach. Igor's demeanor just does not fit the situation. Which is always the consideration of a Head Coach. Does his skillset fit the situation at the time? With Igor, the answer is sadly, "No!"

Indeed. Whatever the reason, Igor clearly is not the man for the job. The sooner the organization realizes and acts on that, the better, especially for the young players who are desperate for leadership, direction and inspiration

 

[AzStevenCal]

All the more reason to not put our hopes into a passive Head Coach. Igor's demeanor just does not fit the situation. Which is always the consideration of a Head Coach. Does his skillset fit the situation at the time? With Igor, the answer is sadly, "No!"

We'll see, but I think you're wrong; I think you're very wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if fans a decade from now weren't calling him the greatest Suns coach since Cotton, if not ever. He took over the absolute worst team in the league, he had to deal with a very tough schedule to start the season with his best player being injured, an imbalanced roster, a whole bunch of kids, many of them straight out of school, veterans that wanted no part of babysitting a bunch of kids and poor chemistry created by those same veterans. If you want much more than 9 wins with this kind of setup, you should hire a wizard because it's beyond the ability of most coaches.

 

[1Sun]

We'll see, but I think you're wrong; I think you're very wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if fans a decade from now weren't calling him the greatest Suns coach since Cotton, if not ever. He took over the absolute worst team in the league, he had to deal with a very tough schedule to start the season with his best player being injured, an imbalanced roster, a whole bunch of kids, many of them straight out of school, veterans that wanted no part of babysitting a bunch of kids and poor chemistry created by those same veterans. If you want much more than 9 wins with this kind of setup, you should hire a wizard because tit's beyond the ability of most coaches.

This team still has more talent than last year and yet has a worse record. It is still the absolute worst team in the league, only by a wider margin. It is always playing uphill because it constantly comes out unprepared to start first and third quarters. It keeps reverting back to the same bad habits. It keeps seeing its young players take a step forward only to take two steps back as they keep getting misused.

Does it need more talent, a better balanced roster and starters at point guard and power forward? Absolutely. But I think Igor very much deserves his fair share of the blame.

While the problems would not all be solved, this team would be significantly better, and more important the young players would show steadier and more appreciable progress, with even an average head coach who was more proactive, more capable as a leader at the NBA level, and a better communicator than Igor Kokoskov.

Simply put, NBA coaching is a chess match, and Igor is playing a very rudimentary form of checkers.

 

[JCSunsfan]

What does it matter WHY Igor has not shown strength as a Head Coach? Whether it is a language problem or leadership/tactitian problem, or both or neither, he is not showing the strength needed to be the guy at the top for a variety of reasons. Especially on a team as young as the Suns.

The NBA, after all, is the most talented basketball league in the world. A Euro head coach/long term NBA assistant turning into an NBA leader is not a guarantee. Especially on a team with a meddling owner and constant turnover and uncertainty at the GM position.

All the more reason to not put our hopes into a passive Head Coach. Igor's demeanor just does not fit the situation. Which is always the consideration of a Head Coach. Does his skillset fit the situation at the time? With Igor, the answer is sadly, "No!"

Good grief! Why in the world do you believe he has shown no strength! This is a figment of your imagination. Again. He is the best coach we have had since DAntoni and I would not be surprised if he is better than DAntoni in the end. It is remarkable what he is accomplishing with this roster of NBA babes. Now we are going to have to hear inane complaints about Igor like we have about Colangelo, McD, and Sarver. Its just bull crap.

 

[1tinsoldier]

Ariza himself has been quoted all but confirming this.

actually, the coach's responsibility for the disharmony is such an obvious observation that i was hesitant to post it.
but what's obvious to some, is apparently, "hilarious" to others

and they expect us to not react to posts calling him a "miracle worker" and "greatest Suns coach since Cotton, if not ever"

talk about trolling

 

[Ronin]

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[1Sun]

He is the best coach we have had since DAntoni and I would not be surprised if he is better than DAntoni in the end. It is remarkable what he is accomplishing with this roster of NBA babes. .

What in the world makes you say this?!?!? Even with the 4 game winning streak (which is now very much a thing of the past), this team is still off to its worst start in franchise history. It is back to falling behind by 20 or more points at home against mediocre competition on a regular basis. Nobody is making steady developmental progress. (Ayton is looking like a world-beater one quarter only to be completely erased from the game plan the next quarter. Booker is getting more and more reckless handling the ball. Bridges looks exactly the same now as he did on his first night of play. Melton is getting progressively worse, as is Okobo. Warren is inconsistent at best. Jackson is all over the place as well.) The team constantly gets blown out to start first and third quarters (you know, the time where a head coach's game strategy and preparation make the most difference).

About the only improvement is that the team is fighting more often to stay in games after getting blown out to start, rather than just quitting when down as it did earlier in the season, and that can be attributable to jettisoning bad influences like Chandler and Ariza and dead weight like Canaan more so than to anything Igor has done. And it was under Igor's watch that the team was quitting in games earlier in the season, anyway.

At best, what Igor has done with this "roster of NBA babes" (which was a less talented "roster of NBA babes" that was more successful under Jay Triano last season) is entirely UNremarkable. In my opinion, it goes beyond that, as I continue to believe that Igor is a big part of the problem and that the blame for the historically bad play and results of this team does not fall entirely on the players.

Objectively, I challenge you to name one thing Igor has done or shown that justifies calling him "the best coach we have had since D'Antoni", projecting him to be "better than D'Antoni in the end", and calling what he has done with this roster (namely yielding the worst record in the NBA and the worst record in franchise history) "remarkable".

(Incidentally, the "best coach we have had since D'Antoni" remains Alvin Gentry...by far...and firing him remains a colossal mistake, in my opinion.)

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I wish. From the comments that James Jones has made I think they are like so many fans here, they'd do just about anything for a point guard so we could win an extra 5 or 10 more games this season.

If that were true we would have already traded for one.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If that were true we would have already traded for one.

And this would be true if trades only involved one team. We can't make anyone trade us a decent point guard. I guess we could give them our unprotected pick for the 59th best PG in the league but hopefully we have a little more restraint than that. Jones has made it clear, he values mature players over rookies so I believe that if there was a decent deal to make, he would have done so.

 

[SirStefan32]

Yeah, patience is a virtue. Suns would have to overpay a lot right now. They may still end up overpaying, but they would be wise to wait for a while and see who becomes available.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

And this would be true if trades only involved one team. We can't make anyone trade us a decent point guard. I guess we could give them our unprotected pick for the 59th best PG in the league but hopefully we have a little more restraint than that. Jones has made it clear, he values mature players over rookies so I believe that if there was a decent deal to make, he would have done so.

I guarantee you that if the Suns were as desperate as you say they are they would have had a taker by now. It's not like they don't have the assets required to make a trade happen. The likely truth is that they really want to make a trade for a point guard, but not enough to make a big overpay for one. That is why a trade has yet to happen because they are not desperate enough to overpay.