Off Season Consideration

[ColdPickleNachos]

Here are my four plans for the offseason, based off of where the Suns pick. I apologize if any trades or signings end up being homers or unrealistic (I didn't go deep into the cap numbers and tried to target players who may be available). I hate when fans do that, but I obviously have bias myself.

Suns get the #1 pick:

1. Run to the podium to take DeAndre Ayton.
2. Trade the Miami pick, the Milwaukee pick, TJ Warren, and Marquese Chriss for Kemba Walker.
3. Sign Trevor Ariza.
4. Sign Wesley Matthews.
5. Sign Luc Richard Mbah a Moute
6. Draft the best overseas prospects available with 2nd round picks.

PG Kemba/ Canaan /Harrison
SG Booker/ Matthews /Daniels
SF Jackson/ Ariza/ House
PF Mbah a Moute/ Bender/ Dudley
C Ayton/ Chandler/ Williams


This is my favorite team by far. It has defense, three point shooting, inside presence, and a nice mix of promising young players and effective veterans. This would probably be my first plan around any big man we draft.


Suns get the #2 pick:

1. Select Luka Doncic.
2. Head to Arizona Sports Fans to do damage control.
3. Incentivize Orlando not to match on Aaron Gordon for $20 million a year by offering them Chriss, the Miami pick, and all of our second rounders.
4. Trade Warren and the Milwaukee pick to move up in the draft and grab Mikal Bridges.
5. Sign Derrick Favors

PG Doncic/ Canaan /Harrison
SG Booker/ Daniels /Reed
SF Jackson/ Bridges / House
PF Gordon/ Bender / Dudley
C Favors/ Chandler/ Williams

This is a fun team to watch with plenty of upside, but would require some patience while they gel and improve.


Suns get the #3 pick:

1. Take Marvin Bagley III
2. Go all in on Deandre Jordan
3. Trade the Miami pick, the Milwaukee pick, and all of our second rounders to move up and grab Collin Sexton
4. Resign Elfrid Payton


PG Payton/ Sexton /Harrison
SG Booker/ Daniels /Reed
SF Jackson/ Warren/ House
PF Bagley/ Bender/ Chriss
C Jordan/ Chandler/ Williams

Shooting is still an issue here, but there is a lot to like about this squad.


Suns get the #4 pick:

I finally give up and become a Spurs fan, thus dooming that once-proud franchise to futility. I then bring my karma to a new team every year for the next 28 years until the Suns are the franchise I am least invested in, thus guaranteeing them a dynasty going forward.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Oh my goodness. Way too much to give up for Kemba. Way, way too much.

 

[BC867]

Oh my goodness. Way too much to give up for Kemba. Way, way too much.

Why? Two picks (we are overloaded with young players), Warren (a one-dimensional Small Forward) and Chriss (one of our disappointing young players).

Shouldn't we aim at thinning out the current roster of young mediocrity? I would hope our coaches have insight now into the expectations of each youngster on our roster..

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Oh my goodness. Way too much to give up for Kemba. Way, way too much.

Honestly, I was worried it wasn't enough. He averages 23 a game as a 27-year-old and...here's what I love the most...has quietly become one of the best 3-point shooters in the entire league.

In fact, he's made the 5th most 3s in all of the NBA this season, behind only Curry, Harden, George, and Klay.

He has actually made more threes than Lillard, and at a higher percentage!

 

[JCSunsfan]

Why? Two picks (we are overloaded with young players), Warren (a one-dimensional Small Forward) and Chriss (one of our disappointing young players).

Shouldn't we aim at thinning out the current roster of young mediocrity? I would hope our coaches have insight now into the expectations of each youngster on our roster..

Because it won't take nearly that much to get him if we want him.

 

[Mainstreet]

@ColdPickleNachos,

I'm a worse case scenario person so I hope you are wrong if the Suns draft #4 or later.

I think the Suns can get a quality player as late as #7-8.

Of course I'm hoping for the #1 pick as well.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

@ColdPickleNachos,

I'm a worse case scenario person so I hope you are wrong if the Suns draft #4 or later.

I think the Suns can get a quality player as late as #7-8.

Of course I'm hoping for the #1 pick as well.

I'm mainly joking. My top plan if we picked 4th would be to take one of Bagley, Jackson, or Bamba and follow the same path. I like the idea of drafting a top big, trading for Walker, and signing quality 3-and-D veterans.

Although who knows if Walker will even be available. I think the rumors of his availability and lower value were more tied to the idea that Charlotte wanted to tank and once the 2018 draft is in the rearview mirror they may go a different way altogether.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm mainly joking. My top plan if we picked 4th would be to take one of Bagley, Jackson, or Bamba and follow the same path. I like the idea of drafting a top big, trading for Walker, and signing quality 3-and-D veterans.

Although who knows if Walker will even be available. I think the rumors of his availability and lower value were more tied to the idea that Charlotte wanted to tank and once the 2018 draft is in the rearview mirror they may go a different way altogether.

I was hoping you would not become a Spurs fan... of course I knew you were joking.

I like your off season plan ideas.

I'd like for the Suns to draft a big man with their first pick as I think center is their biggest weakness and PGs are more obtainable. Of course it needs to fit a BPA scenario.

Walker would be a nice acquisition if I knew the Suns can keep him. I know he has one more year on his contract. I'm guessing he would want the max plus Booker would be a max player as well so I'm not sure how the Suns view it.

 

[Chaplin]

I don't get it. Why "resign Payton?" The guy is a restricted free agent, not unrestricted. Is Kemba Walker THAT much better than him?

 

[Hoop Head]

I don't get it. Why "resign Payton?" The guy is a restricted free agent, not unrestricted. Is Kemba Walker THAT much better than him?

No, he's not. He's a better scorer and a better shooter but he's not a better playmaker. I'd rather have Payton at about 1/3 of the price of Kemba. I don't know why Suns fans have started pining for Kemba Walker. He is a borderline All-Star in Charlotte but he wouldn't be an All-Star in the Western Conference and he hasn't led the Hornets anywhere, so him making the Suns better is questionable.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Kemba Walker has made 189 3 pointers this year.

Elfrid Payton has made 29.

 

[Chaplin]

Kemba Walker has made 189 3 pointers this year.

Elfrid Payton has made 29.

And? Walker doesn't have Devin Booker next to him. If you think he'd be shooting 189 3 pointers on the Suns, you would be mistaken. He's BY FAR the best player on the Hornets, and depending who we draft, he might struggle to be the 3rd best on this team.

 

[Hoop Head]

Kemba Walker has made 189 3 pointers this year.

Elfrid Payton has made 29.

And Payton has only attempted 86 for the year and just 16 since he's been a Sun. Payton is shooting 50% for the year on all of his FG% attempts while Kemba is shooting just 43%. So there's a big difference there. Kemba is a better scorer though, I don't think anyone would debate that, but I don't think he'd be any better than Bledsoe was next to Booker. He'd take the ball from Booker's hands more than Payton would but not necessarily to create for others as much as himself. While the Suns need another scorer I don't think they need a scoring PG to pair with Booker in the backcourt unless he also happens to be a really good defender, which Walker is not.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Top 5 in the NBA in 3 pointers made:

1. Harden
2. Curry
3. George
4. Thompson
5. Walker

He's MADE 189 3 pointers. On a team where he's forced to be the main offensive focus by far, just like Booker here.

This is a huge deal. Warren and Jackson don't space the floor. If the Suns have a point guard who doesn't space the floor either, it creates huge problems for the offense in today's NBA. The Suns have the worst 3pt % in the league. The Warriors have the best.

Payton shoots a good percentage from 3, but only because he only shoots wide open threes because teams don't have to focus on guarding that shot. He is in general a good decision-maker and doesn't take bad shots, which are admirable qualities, but having a starting PG who isn't a 3 point threat is like having a starting QB who can't throw the deep ball. Defenses don't have to respect it, and it makes everybody else's job harder.

 

[Chaplin]

Top 5 in the NBA in 3 pointers made:

1. Harden
2. Curry
3. George
4. Thompson
5. Walker

He's MADE 189 3 pointers. On a team where he's forced to be the main offensive focus by far, just like Booker here.

This is a huge deal. Warren and Jackson don't space the floor. If the Suns have a point guard who doesn't space the floor either, it creates huge problems for the offense in today's NBA. The Suns have the worst 3pt % in the league. The Warriors have the best.

Payton shoots a good percentage from 3, but only because he only shoots wide open threes because teams don't have to focus on guarding that shot.

I think you're missing the point. I actually like Kemba Walker, but now that we have Payton? We can spend the money and assets we would need to trade for him on something else that we DON'T have--like a star big man, for example.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I think you're missing the point. I actually like Kemba Walker, but now that we have Payton? We can spend the money and assets we would need to trade for him on something else that we DON'T have--like a star big man, for example.

I'm not missing the point...the Suns are! (Sorry...couldn't resist)

I would love for Payton to be the long-term answer at starting point guard. I just don't think he is.

He is a big upgrade from Mike James and Tyler Ulis, but that can't be the benchmark.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Granted, the Suns weren't exactly killing it before acquiring Payton, but they are 1-10 with him, and the Magic didn't fare much better with Payton at the helm.

Quoted this earlier from Zach Lowe in another thread, so sorry if this feels redundant, but it seems relevant:

The Suns have managed 98.0 points per 100 possessions when both Booker and Bender sit, per NBA.com -- almost two points below Sacramento's league-worst team mark. Since they acquired Payton -- one of the league's brickiest point guards -- that number has cratered to about 86.5 points per 100 possessions. Even in a tiny sample -- just 63 minutes since the trade deadline -- it is hard to be so futile. Opponents have outscored the Suns by 56 points in those 63 minutes. Sickening. (Thankfully, Phoenix didn't sabotage themselves with any such minutes until garbage time Thursday against Oklahoma City. Troy Daniels also provides a shooting buffer at times.)

Bender has games in which he doesn't do anything, but he's shooting 38 percent on 3s. Defenses at least have to honor him.

Payton was worth a low-cost flier -- and perhaps a longer look depending on his market in free agency. But entering its eighth consecutive draft lottery, Phoenix still has a gaping hole at point guard and an alarming shortage of 3-point shooting. It is almost astonishing how much Booker has improved his playmaking in this environment. The second he turns the corner on a pick-and-roll, he sees four and sometimes five defenders walling off every pathway to the basket.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

And just for the record, I would LOVE to be wrong about this!

I was an early advocate of trading for Payton, and I think he has a lot of excellent qualities. He's also young and should continue to improve. I'm even in favor of bringing him back at the right price. But I think using him as a reason not to pursue a top point guard would be a big mistake.

 

[Phrazbit]

Yeah, I'm not sold yet on Payton either. If we could get Walker on a (more) reasonable price than the one suggest, I'd be for it. It's a shooter's league, Walker is a really good one... Payton is not.

That said, I'd prefer to address the situation in the draft or through a later trade. And hopefully sign Payton to a reasonable contract in the interim, something like 3 years 20 million. I certainly wouldn't give him 10+ per unless it was like a 2 year deal.

 

[Cheesebeef]

And just for the record, I would LOVE to be wrong about this!

I was an early advocate of trading for Payton, and I think he has a lot of excellent qualities. He's also young and should continue to improve. I'm even in favor of bringing him back at the right price. But I think using him as a reason not to pursue a top point guard would be a big mistake.

Agreed.

 

[SirStefan32]

The thing is that if the Suns were to get Walker, that would be it for "stars". Between him and Booker, 70% of the cap would be gone. The real question is if Walker is THAT good. I say no.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

The thing is that if the Suns were to get Walker, that would be it for "stars". Between him and Booker, 70% of the cap would be gone. The real question is if Walker is THAT good. I say no.

In this scenario, the Suns would have Booker, Ayton, and Jackson. If Ayton and Jackson turn out like we would hope, they'll eventually take up all the cap space, so we would ideally have the right bridge to that time. The Suns are unlikely to attract a top 10 player right now, so a fringe all-star like Walker seems like a good path to spread the floor and help the young stars develop in a winning environment.

Who are we realistically getting in free agency between now and then that is better? The only guys available this year that are better have no chance of coming to the Suns.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I honestly think Walker is underrated. Play initiators who can hit threes at a high volume are gold in this league.

He's not Curry or Harden, but those guys are not walking through that door.

 

[AZCrazy]

So, Doncic then?

 

[Mainstreet]

No, he's not. He's a better scorer and a better shooter but he's not a better playmaker. I'd rather have Payton at about 1/3 of the price of Kemba. I don't know why Suns fans have started pining for Kemba Walker. He is a borderline All-Star in Charlotte but he wouldn't be an All-Star in the Western Conference and he hasn't led the Hornets anywhere, so him making the Suns better is questionable.

I previously touched on this, Walker will be a free agent after next season.

Do the Suns really want to pay Walker a max salary and build around a then 29 year old point guard next to Booker?

Also there are no guarantees the Suns keep him when he becomes a free agent.

Bird Rights might transfer but I'm leery of giving up the farm to trade for him and paying him max dollars.

As a side note, the Suns dodged a bullet by not trading for Blake Griffin.