OT: Michael Vick wants to own a dog

[earthsci]

Winnabark kennels, but I believe they are no longer in operation, we did get Oscar locally I just haven't been able to bring myself to pull George off my profile yet and put Oscar [black sharpei] there.

If you want the kennel name send Brighteyes a PM

The reason that I brought it up is because I know many dog lovers that think that buying purebreds, especially from kennels is irresponsible. Some even believe it inhumane. Every purebred that goes home is another in the pound that is getting a needle tonight is what they see.

I don't say that because I think that of you. A lot of people wouldn't have a dog if it weren't purebred. My point is that you shouldn't be so quick to judge (oaken1 I mean) because there are others that look at you and will judge you. To many, what you do is inhumane.

:edit: Since leaving my parents house (purebred Dachshund) I have owned 6 dogs, all pound dogs except for the Red Tick Hound that no one wanted because he is a grumpy, loud bag of bones.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

He will never understand my view on this.

As one that can, and does understand your view, I will tell you this, very few understand.

Hence I understand your frustration with trying to talk about it. One if not the main reason I quit from managing dog/cat kennels (travel kennels for family dogs, BTW).

 

[conraddobler]

• A dog doesn't die if it is on a leash
• A dog isn't in pain while on a leash
• A dog isn't a wolf and hasn't been for many thousands of years hence is not [in most cases] equipped to survive in the wilds of Scottsdale
• The current thinking is that dogs initial choose to live with man as a survival behaviour. It was easier than hunting.
• If you tried to experiment on my dog you would find out how much I know about MMA

The current thinking is?

Who said so?

The dog?

Cause I could give a rats ass what people think, we're talking about the dog, and no one asked them.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

My point is that you shouldn't be so quick to judge (oaken1 I mean) because there are others that look at you and will judge you. To many, what you do is inhumane.

When it comes to animals that is the whole round-about that happens.

Some like PETA will do anything to save a life, even lock a dog away in a small cage in a dark room for the rest of its life, just for the simple fact it is "alive".

Some like Michael Vick treat the animals worse than the dog poop he scrapes off his shoes.

One man's humanity is anothers cruelty.

Pure humanity is impossible, and idealistic pipedream. In reality, as an ex-kennel manager, who is married to a Senior Vet Technician of 10 years, you can only do so much for animals.

Take on what your can handle, and spoil them rotten, in my extremely humble opinion anyway.

 

[Mulli]

Great thread, compelling and rich.

 

[82CardsGrad]

The current thinking is?

Who said so?

The dog?

Cause I could give a rats ass what people think, we're talking about the dog, and no one asked them.

I dunno... Cesar the Dog Whisperer might beg to differ with you:

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[earthsci]

When it comes to animals that is the whole round-about that happens.

Some like PETA will do anything to save a life, even lock a dog away in a small cage in a dark room for the rest of its life, just for the simple fact it is "alive".

Some like Michael Vick treat the animals worse than the dog poop he scrapes off his shoes.

One man's humanity is anothers cruelty.

Pure humanity is impossible, and idealistic pipedream. In reality, as an ex-kennel manager, who is married to a Senior Vet Technician of 10 years, you can only do so much for animals.

Take on what your can handle, and spoil them rotten, in my extremely humble opinion anyway.

 

[THESMEL]

give him a regurgitated Russ Grimm Hot dog, If He wants a dog,

" Can't waste a good dog"

 

[conraddobler]

I dunno... Cesar the Dog Whisperer might beg to differ with you:

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Happy slaves vs unhappy slaves?

My point about dogs, since I know a bit about this, is that the happiest dogs on earth are farm dogs.

They get a warm place to sleep, some food and are free to do whatever the heck they want, including leave if they want to.

House dogs IMO are an abomination, even though I "own" two of them, I still think that in the scheme of things that's not the highest form of life for a dog.

If you get into treatement I think you're just talking about degrees of good slave ownership IMO.

Honestly there are far too many dogs to live the way dogs IMO should live but again that's just MO because you can't really ask the dog.

Breeding a dog to be what you want it to be is a form of control and ownership, I prefer mutts that you rescue from death then let them do whatever they want to do, including leave.

No one will ever convince me that the happiest dog is not a farm dog, I've seen them, they come around when they want to, ask you to pet them when they want it and generally just do what makes dogs happy to do when they want to do it.

 

[BigRedRage]

Again the dogs don't get to choose, hence this is a reprehensible behavior. Why is it that you and okaen1 don't get the difference ?

The dog has no choice and is a victim of the humans involved [organizers and audiences] brutality.

No not animalistic, brutal and cruel. Animals are not brutal slavemasters

I get the difference just fine, you breed the dog to fight not the dog breeds itself to fight.

Either way, I would let the guy own a family pet, your family pet is different than your fighting dogs.

But I would watch dog fights, so you shouldnt even care about my opinion.

 

[BigRedRage]

I understand your point and sympathize and the resolution is simple. All he has to do is post that this is what he meant and regrets his earlier involvement.

He will never understand my view on this or he could never have been involved at any age but he could but at least he could agree it was wrong.

to YOU it is wrong, to others it is not. You should get into religion and you can tell everyone only your opinion is right too.

Noone cares that you spent your life practicing martial arts, if you "experimented" on my dog, Id shoot you. Awesome.

 

[desertdawg]

My point about dogs, since I know a bit about this, is that the happiest dogs on earth are farm dogs.

Hippie communes too. They just do as they please and there are no cars to worry about. (not much meat around though)

 

[BigRedRage]

Vick can own a dog, after his “supervised release” ends

Posted by Mike Florio on December 16, 2010, 9:51 AM EST

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It has been widely assumed that Eagles quarterback Mike Vick may never again own a dog as part of the sentence imposed on him after he pleaded guilty to federal charges relating to dogfighting and gambling.
The perception has been fueled in part by the comments from Vick himself, who seems to believe that he needs special permission from the judge who sent him to prison in order to ever purchase or own a dog.
“I don’t know when that day is going to come,” Vick said last year. “It’s up to my judge at his discretion.”
More recently, Vick said that he “would love to have another dog in the future,” and that “if I ever have that opportunity again, I won’t take it for granted.”
As it turns out, he will have that opportunity again.
We tracked down (thanks to a reader who also is a lawyer) a copy of Vick’s sentencing order from December 10, 2007. And while the document states that “[t]he defendant shall not engage in the purchase, possession, or sale of any canine,” that limitation appears as a condition of Vick’s supervised release, otherwise known as probation.
Vick was placed on three years of “supervised release,” which began to run after he was released from prison. Thus, at some point in 2012, he’ll no longer be on supervised release — and he’ll be able to buy, own, and/or sell dogs.

I agree with that ruling.

 

[desertdawg]

I agree with that ruling.

I don't.

 

[Jersey Girl]

It was a Philadelphia area charter school. Do you suspect there is a dog fighting culture in that venue?

In Philadelphia? Yes. At the charter school during recess? No.

I share the same feelings about dogs as you do but as I mentioned, I'm not sure we can apply the same reasoning to a person who grew up in an environment where this was natural. I wish we could change that environment but until we do, the people involved have to be viewed differently IMO. You can hold them just as accountable on the legal end but that's about it.

I know it's not nearly the same, but a comparison could be made to growing up in a racist family. If it's normal or you're taught to hate a certain race, use racial slurs and think you are better than someone else, then, yeah, it's pretty easy to just accept that as the way it is. Until someone tells you different or you have your own unique experiences, that is your reality.

 

[BigRedRage]

In Philadelphia? Yes. At the charter school during recess? No.



I know it's not nearly the same, but a comparison could be made to growing up in a racist family. If it's normal or you're taught to hate a certain race, use racial slurs and think you are better than someone else, then, yeah, it's pretty easy to just accept that as the way it is. Until someone tells you different or you have your own unique experiences, that is your reality.

far fetched but still does have a comparison yes.

Im sure though that Mike knew it was deemed wrong by society, knew it was illegal and enjoyed it and did it anyway. Thats where it is different.

If your raised racist in southern mississippi, you may not know any better.

But really, by the time your in your twenties, you should have an idea that racism is not the correct route.

 

[oaken1]

I understand your point and sympathize and the resolution is simple. All he has to do is post that this is what he meant and regrets his earlier involvement.

He will never understand my view on this or he could never have been involved at any age but he could but at least he could agree it was wrong.

LMAO,...I will not apologize to you or anyone else about how I was raised.... but your statement here is so judgmental and shortsighted as to be ridiculous...I could see it the opposite, the fact that I have lived that life, and grew away from it, allows me to have greater knowledge on that which I speak, therefor allows me to be even more enlightened on the subject than yourself, and have an even greater appreciation for the value and joy which a good dog brings to ones life.
Some cultures fight dogs, some chickens...other cultures submit their male babies to the excruciating pain of having the tip of their penis cut up , others do it at the age of twelve...some cultures choose to never circumcise their boys even though popular medical opinion says it opens the boy to risks of infection throughout his life.
There are cultures that sacrifice chickens to have better crops, and those who cut open snakes to remove bad luck,...there are even cultures that make animals live their entire lives in little tiny boxes where they cannot do anything other than eat and ****,...just to be murdered so they can be eaten. All of these cultures exist here in America, today.
I do not agree with all of them by a long shot. But I have a bullet hole in my leg from an AK-47 round, and a scar on my back where I was impaled with a hay hook, from the time I spent fighting so these people have the freedom to live their lives... even with the personal pain and sacrifices I have made for those rights, I cannot for the life of me develop that holier than thou attitude that makes me think I have the right to dictate to someone else how they should live, and I have enough courtesy, and respect for my fellow man, not to be so presumptuous as to tell someone that aspects of their life disgusts me.

 

[BigRedRage]

LMAO,...I will not apologize to you or anyone else about how I was raised.... but your statement here is so judgmental and shortsighted as to be ridiculous...I could see it the opposite, the fact that I have lived that life, and grew away from it, allows me to have greater knowledge on that which I speak, therefor allows me to be even more enlightened on the subject than yourself, and have an even greater appreciation for the value and joy which a good dog brings to ones life.
Some cultures fight dogs, some chickens...other cultures submit their male babies to the excruciating pain of having the tip of their penis cut up , others do it at the age of twelve...some cultures choose to never circumcise their boys even though popular medical opinion says it opens the boy to risks of infection throughout his life.
There are cultures that sacrifice chickens to have better crops, and those who cut open snakes to remove bad luck,...there are even cultures that make animals live their entire lives in little tiny boxes where they cannot do anything other than eat and ****,...just to be murdered so they can be eaten. All of these cultures exist here in America, today.
I do not agree with all of them by a long shot. But I have a bullet hole in my leg from an AK-47 round, and a scar on my back where I was impaled with a hay hook, from the time I spent fighting so these people have the freedom to live their lives... even with the personal pain and sacrifices I have made for those rights, I cannot for the life of me develop that holier than thou attitude that makes me think I have the right to dictate to someone else how they should live, and I have enough courtesy, and respect for my fellow man, not to be so presumptuous as to tell someone that aspects of their life disgusts me.

Great post

 

[nidan]

The reason that I brought it up is because I know many dog lovers that think that buying purebreds, especially from kennels is irresponsible. Some even believe it inhumane. Every purebred that goes home is another in the pound that is getting a needle tonight is what they see.

I don't say that because I think that of you. A lot of people wouldn't have a dog if it weren't purebred. My point is that you shouldn't be so quick to judge (oaken1 I mean) because there are others that look at you and will judge you. To many, what you do is inhumane.

:edit: Since leaving my parents house (purebred Dachshund) I have owned 6 dogs, all pound dogs except for the Red Tick Hound that no one wanted because he is a grumpy, loud bag of bones.

In my case the choice was dictated by George and how I felt about him when he died. If Oscar can handle it we will likely adopt a rescue dog as well.

We spent a fiar bit of time at Senoran Veterinary Hospital over the last year and we donated all of Georges stuff to them to hel pwith their resuce efforts

 

[dreamcastrocks]

LMAO,...I will not apologize to you or anyone else about how I was raised.... but your statement here is so judgmental and shortsighted as to be ridiculous...I could see it the opposite, the fact that I have lived that life, and grew away from it, allows me to have greater knowledge on that which I speak, therefor allows me to be even more enlightened on the subject than yourself, and have an even greater appreciation for the value and joy which a good dog brings to ones life.
Some cultures fight dogs, some chickens...other cultures submit their male babies to the excruciating pain of having the tip of their penis cut up , others do it at the age of twelve...some cultures choose to never circumcise their boys even though popular medical opinion says it opens the boy to risks of infection throughout his life.
There are cultures that sacrifice chickens to have better crops, and those who cut open snakes to remove bad luck,...there are even cultures that make animals live their entire lives in little tiny boxes where they cannot do anything other than eat and ****,...just to be murdered so they can be eaten. All of these cultures exist here in America, today.
I do not agree with all of them by a long shot. But I have a bullet hole in my leg from an AK-47 round, and a scar on my back where I was impaled with a hay hook, from the time I spent fighting so these people have the freedom to live their lives... even with the personal pain and sacrifices I have made for those rights, I cannot for the life of me develop that holier than thou attitude that makes me think I have the right to dictate to someone else how they should live, and I have enough courtesy, and respect for my fellow man, not to be so presumptuous as to tell someone that aspects of their life disgusts me.

Great post

Post of the month!

 

[nidan]

The current thinking is?

Who said so?

The dog?

Cause I could give a rats ass what people think, we're talking about the dog, and no one asked them.

Biologists researching the evolution of dogs

 

[nidan]

to YOU it is wrong, to others it is not. You should get into religion and you can tell everyone only your opinion is right too.

Noone cares that you spent your life practicing martial arts, if you "experimented" on my dog, Id shoot you. Awesome.

I would as well if I owned a gun, I don't so I'd use what I have

 

[nidan]

I guess expecting either of you to understand is pointless.

But to answer Rubgy, I don't hear the slightest regret from oaken1 and certinaly not from BigRedRage.

Just as BBigRedRage seems to think that watching an illegal aand brutal spectical is a good thing. I have the right to think it is disgusting and hope I or somebody else would have the chance to get all involved in such a spectacle arrested.

BigRedRage, did you forget it was illegal as well as brutal and I just love the comments about MMA when that was mostly for illuminating how I feel. Did you really think I cared what you think of my life ? Way to go for advocating for illegal behavior.

 

[desertdawg]

Vick did not just fight the "fight dogs", he did not have a drawer full of needles to put the dogs down humanely.

He tortured, beat, shot, electrocuted, hung, and did who knows what else to these dogs before he killed them.

You simply have to get off on it to commit these types of acts. This guy wants a dog now?

He did not just fight "fight dogs".

Hello, we are still talking about this guy. Cultures are one thing, I get that, but the cold blooded lengths he went to inflict pain and torture on the dogs, who were sometimes the losers in the fight and already in pain leads me to believe he possibly psychotic, Vick = evil IMO. He got off on it, that is sad.

 

[nidan]

to YOU it is wrong, to others it is not. You should get into religion and you can tell everyone only your opinion is right too.

To the law it is wrong as well and will get you arrested, it isn't just my opinion