Pistons at Suns 12-12-14

[Mainstreet]

But that is a possibility. And the danger of not making a commitment to all or most of the starters.

In IT's first game back, the Suns closed with three Point Guards, with Thomas playing the final 16 minutes. Most of the time, neither of the Centers finish. Is is going to be Green at the "3" or Tucker or Mook and are they going to be bumped up to Power Forward when Kieff moves to Center?

Sadly, that is the formula for discontent.

In his playing days, when Horny moved from Point Guard to Shooting Guard, it was permanent. He wasn't shuffled back and forth, never knowing if or where he'd be finishing the game. But that is what he is doing as Coach.

Hornacek has fixed a nice batch of scrambled eggs. When a team is headed everywhere they are going nowhere. Ryan McDonough needs to clean up this mess.

It was nice reading about something more positive about the progress of Bogdan Bogdanovic.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...ogdan-bogdanovic-progressing-europe/20341185/

 

[BC867]

I couldn't help but laugh at the photo AzCentral/AzRepublic ran from last night's game. It tells the story. 1-on-2 ball hog.

At least when Dragic drives, 90% of the time, he makes the basket, with his twisting, turning and circling. I marvel at how he scores so consistently when he drives in traffic. Even Thomas is better in traffic than Bledsoe.

And before some of you call me a "hater", notice that it is the photo that our local/statewide web site/newspaper chose to run to symbolize the game we should have won.

 

[sunsfan88]

I agree, it is hard to watch the Suns play and I even persevered through the drug scandal days. The minimum I ask of the Suns is give me a reason to watch. The Suns are steadily sliding south for some reason. It especially shows on defense and turnovers. The effort and concentration is not there. I think the coach staffing and FO have to ask why and fix it. Coming into the season I always thought the Suns were accumulating assets to make a trade with all their guards and such. I still think this is the the case but it has gotten ugly before this can occur and forcing the issue. Maybe the Suns need to find out who their core players are going forward and move the excess players for assets. It's also scary to think the players may have quit on Hornacek this early in the season.

I wouldn't blame the players if they did that. Hornacek's lack of knowledge in terms of creating ANY half court play other than a pick and roll is pretty telling.

We're gonna suck this season but imo Hornacek has to be on the hot seat going into next year for his coaching job this year. And I say that completely understanding the dysfunctional roster that he has because again, he's a HC that doesn't know anything other than scoring in transition and pick and rolls.

 

[Mainstreet]

I wouldn't blame the players if they did that. Hornacek's lack of knowledge in terms of creating ANY half court play other than a pick and roll is pretty telling.

We're gonna suck this season but imo Hornacek has to be on the hot seat going into next year for his coaching job this year. And I say that completely understanding the dysfunctional roster that he has because again, he's a HC that doesn't know anything other than scoring in transition and pick and rolls.

Also if the Suns are not going to play defense the days of DA do not look so bad.

 

[SirStefan32]

Also if the Suns are not going to play defense the days of DA do not look so bad.

DA teams could flat-out score. This team can't even score. What really drives me crazy is that this team should NOT be this bad defensively. DA teams were built around two terrible defenders. This team should NOT be this bad defensively. Bledsoe and Tucker have the ability to be outstanding defenders, Dragic should be at least an average defender, as should Len and Plumlee. Neither of the Morris brothers should be as bad defensively as they are, and Green, with his lateral quickness should be a decent defender at least.

 

[Superbone]

The twins, Green and Thomas all seem to lack energy out there. I miss IT's smile. He just seems to be going through the motions.

Steve

The game ground to a halt when he was in there last night. Not good.

 

[Superbone]

This team is my least favorite team to watch since the Kidd/ Robinson team with Delk and Rogers off the bench. I can manage to watch Bledsoe, I can manage to watch IT, but those two together are just too painful to watch.

What happened since last year?! We were so fun to watch! On paper, we got better this year. Too bad the games aren't played on paper.

Time to shake it up.

 

[Superbone]

Maybe time for some macrame team-building exercises?

 

[SirStefan32]

What happened since last year?! We were so fun to watch! On paper, we got better this year. Too bad the games aren't played on paper.

Time to shake it up.

Well, I don't think there is one single thing that happened, but rather a series of events that contributed a little bit.

First off, non-traditional lineups and systems tend to take teams by surprise, which is a very good thing. The bad thing is that teams eventually adjust to all that. This is why the Suns did so well before Bledsoe got hurt.

Second factor is that Dragic played like a mad man once Bledsoe went down.
Without looking at numbers, I'd say he probably averaged 22 and 9 while Bledsoe was down while shooting 45%+ from the three-point range. Now, we can argue over whether that's Goran's fault, whether it's Bledsoe and IT dominating the ball so much, but the bottom line is that Goran went from being a legitimate star to being a slightly above average player.

Third factor is IT. IT is a good player, so this is not really HIS fault, but rather the fault of McD/ Babby. I realize I am oversimplifying a bit, but Dragic, Bledsoe, and IT are basically the same player. Sure, Bledsoe is the best defender- far better than Dragic, and there is no comparison with IT (IT is just terrible). Dragic is a better play maker than the other two, IT is probably the best pure scorer, so they each have advantages over the other two, but at the end of the day, they are all combo guards who can't quite run the offense like a real PG could, can't shoot like a real SG could, and neither one of them can really defend bigger guards (IT can't guard anyone, and Goran can't keep up with the quicker, smaller PGs.)
You just can't have three players on your roster who are basically the same.
To add to that, to find minutes, you have to move Green to SF, which pushes Tucker to PF, which forces Morris to C, while taking away time from the youngsters (Goodwin, Len, Warren.)

Forth factor is slightly more complicated and it may be related to the other factors already listed. Each team (whether it's sports or business, or whatever else) has to have two things- identity and direction. Suns have neither.

How do Sarver/ Babby/ McD/ Hornacek fix it? I do not know. One of the PGs needs to go, and another big man must be acquired. Then, clear roles need to be assigned. Goran, this is your team. Gerald, you are the gunner, but you will only be on the floor if you are playing defense. PJ, you are the defensive stopper, enforcer, three point shooter with huge strength advantage over other small forwards, etc.

 

[Mainstreet]

Well, I don't think there is one single thing that happened, but rather a series of events that contributed a little bit.

First off, non-traditional lineups and systems tend to take teams by surprise, which is a very good thing. The bad thing is that teams eventually adjust to all that. This is why the Suns did so well before Bledsoe got hurt.

Second factor is that Dragic played like a mad man once Bledsoe went down.
Without looking at numbers, I'd say he probably averaged 22 and 9 while Bledsoe was down while shooting 45%+ from the three-point range. Now, we can argue over whether that's Goran's fault, whether it's Bledsoe and IT dominating the ball so much, but the bottom line is that Goran went from being a legitimate star to being a slightly above average player.

Third factor is IT. IT is a good player, so this is not really HIS fault, but rather the fault of McD/ Babby. I realize I am oversimplifying a bit, but Dragic, Bledsoe, and IT are basically the same player. Sure, Bledsoe is the best defender- far better than Dragic, and there is no comparison with IT (IT is just terrible). Dragic is a better play maker than the other two, IT is probably the best pure scorer, so they each have advantages over the other two, but at the end of the day, they are all combo guards who can't quite run the offense like a real PG could, can't shoot like a real SG could, and neither one of them can really defend bigger guards (IT can't guard anyone, and Goran can't keep up with the quicker, smaller PGs.)
You just can't have three players on your roster who are basically the same.
To add to that, to find minutes, you have to move Green to SF, which pushes Tucker to PF, which forces Morris to C, while taking away time from the youngsters (Goodwin, Len, Warren.)

Forth factor is slightly more complicated and it may be related to the other factors already listed. Each team (whether it's sports or business, or whatever else) has to have two things- identity and direction. Suns have neither.

How do Sarver/ Babby/ McD/ Hornacek fix it? I do not know. One of the PGs needs to go, and another big man must be acquired. Then, clear roles need to be assigned. Goran, this is your team. Gerald, you are the gunner, but you will only be on the floor if you are playing defense. PJ, you are the defensive stopper, enforcer, three point shooter with huge strength advantage over other small forwards, etc.

I like what you are saying, especially the last paragraph. A PG needs to go and a quality big man needs to be acquired. Plus the Suns need direction.

 

[AzStevenCal]

People seem to be longing for the days when Dragic led this team without Bledsoe (or IT). But other than Goran being fun to watch, what's the difference? We played .500 ball when Goran led this team last season once Bledsoe went down. And again, we're playing .500 ball. It was a more watchable .500 but still, I want to see this team win, not break even.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

People seem to be longing for the days when Dragic led this team without Bledsoe (or IT). But other than Goran being fun to watch, what's the difference? We played .500 ball when Goran led this team last season once Bledsoe went down. And again, we're playing .500 ball. It was a more watchable .500 but still, I want to see this team win, not break even.

Steve

I think the fans want an improved team with Dragic leading the team but that has not happened for whatever reason. The chemistry thing has not worked on with Bledsoe, Dragic and IT. However, it is more than that. The Suns are not playing as a team on offense or defense. I'm also flustered that the PG traded may be Dragic instead of Bledsoe. Certainly IT can be traded but I'm not sure that is the fix.

 

[slinslin]

I couldn't help but laugh at the photo AzCentral/AzRepublic ran from last night's game. It tells the story. 1-on-2 ball hog.

At least when Dragic drives, 90% of the time,he makes the basket, with his twisting, turning and circling. I marvel at how he scores so consistently when he drives in traffic. Even Thomas is better in traffic than Bledsoe.

And before some of you call me a "hater", notice that it is the photo that our local/statewide web site/newspaper chose to run to symbolize the game we should have won.

Good joke man..

And who the f cares what photo azcentral shows?

It was Dragic with 6 turnovers, not Bledsoe.

 

[sunsfan88]

Also if the Suns are not going to play defense the days of DA do not look so bad.

DA teams could flat-out score. This team can't even score. What really drives me crazy is that this team should NOT be this bad defensively. DA teams were built around two terrible defenders. This team should NOT be this bad defensively. Bledsoe and Tucker have the ability to be outstanding defenders, Dragic should be at least an average defender, as should Len and Plumlee. Neither of the Morris brothers should be as bad defensively as they are, and Green, with his lateral quickness should be a decent defender at least.

Your HC has to actually care about defense and install it in practice, not just talk about it for them to become good defensively.

 

[BC867]

And who the f cares what photo azcentral shows?

A lot of fans here in the Valley of the Sun who decide how many go through the turnstyles, but aren't dedicated posters to a Suns posting board.

The professionals at AzCentral/AzRepublic sports chose Bledsoe driving the lane straight in on a 1-on-2 and missing as representative of the game we should have won.

That's who cares. It influences the Suns revenue from the casual fans.

You are talking about "who the f cares" and I am talking about marketing.

 

[Mainstreet]

A lot of fans here in the Valley of the Sun who decide how many go through the turnstyles, but aren't dedicated posters to a Suns posting board.

The professionals at AzCentral/AzRepublic sports chose Bledsoe driving the lane straight in on a 1-on-2 and missing as representative of the game we should have won.

That's who cares. It influences the Suns revenue from the casual fans.

You are talking about "who the f cares" and I am talking about marketing.

Also it could be as simple as they thought it was a good photograph.

 

[Superbone]

Also it could be as simple as they thought it was a good photograph.

"Look how determined our highly paid 'star' player looks!"

I'm sure they don't mention the fact that he misses the basket while forcing the issue.

 

[BC867]

Also it could be as simple as they thought it was a good photograph.

"Look how determined our highly paid 'star' player looks!"

I'm sure they don't mention the fact that he misses the basket while forcing the issue.

Thank you, Superbone. I am sure that the sports department of the largest newspaper/media site in our State knows that the shot clearly stresses that our Point Guard hogs the ball in a high risk 1-on-2 situation.

The Arizona Republic (and its sister paper, the old Phoenix Gazette) have worked to build up the Suns following (and attendance) since the beginning.

But they are not going to play ignorant homers, just as Eddie Johnson doesn't on the air. And I appreciate that.

Perhaps the photo of the day was meant to nudge the Suns front office into taking action for the long run, on behalf of the fans.

 

[Superbone]

I am sure that the sports department of the largest newspaper/media site in our State knows that the shot clearly stresses that our Point Guard hogs the ball in a high risk 1-on-2 situation.

I am not so sure about that.