Sixers holding up Amare Deal - Per ESPN

[Town Drunk]

The Sixers are the ones holding up a potential Amare Stoudemire for Andre Iguodala and Sam Dalembert trade, according to ESPN's Chad Ford.

When Amare heard he might be getting shipped to Philly's rebuilding process, he went public with his claims that he could opt in for his $17.69 million next season. That was likely enough to scare the Sixers off, who probably see Amare as an expiring contract more than a piece to build around. Expect the two sides to continue to talks.
Source: ESPN.com

 

[elindholm]

I'm surprised at how unwilling anyone is to pay Stoudemire $17.7 million next season. Sure, it's a lot of money for someone who doesn't show up every night, but it's just one year, and it's not like the guy doesn't produce.

Has Stoudemire's value fallen so far that no other team wants him except as an expiring contract?

 

[The Commish]

I'm surprised at how unwilling anyone is to pay Stoudemire $17.7 million next season. Sure, it's a lot of money for someone who doesn't show up every night, but it's just one year, and it's not like the guy doesn't produce.

Has Stoudemire's value fallen so far that no other team wants him except as an expiring contract?

I think its the uncertainty that makes it tough for teams. If he just had one more year left on his deal (instead of a player option), I think more teams would be comfortable "renting" him for a year. The fact that he can become an UFA holds teams hostage.

 

[Griffin]

Amare does have quite a bit of power here because he can refuse to sign an extension with a team that wants him and also opt in for the final year with a team that does not. But, if Amare doesn't want to play for the 76ers and the 76ers don't want to keep him beyond this season, then what's the problem? Amare would be free to sign with whoever he wanted in the summer. It seems that if this report is true, then Amare probably doesn't really want to leave Phoenix and may indeed play here next season if we don't trade him.

As for this potential trade, the Suns could do a lot worse. Dalenbert is a great rebounder and Iguadala hopefully is still a good defender even if not very consistent on the offensive end. What I would like about this trade is that it is not geared towards saving us money but rather improving defensively and on the boards this season.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

What this tells me is that Amare KNOWS that he ain't worth $17.7M. He threatens to opt out in an effort to control not going to a team he doesn't want to play for and, yet the Sixers are allegedly OK with him opting out. So, on the surface, you would think this is a win-win for Amare and the Sixers. Problem is that Amare knows that he'll be lucky to get a contract starting at $10M now. So, he doesn't REALLY want to opt out.

He's trying to crowbar his way into an extension to preserve some of his future gains....

 

[The Polecat]

Stoudemire just gave himself a lot more negotiating power

 

[The Polecat]

If the Suns do get Dalembert the next step could be sending him to the Kings
for the expiring contract of Kenny Thomas plus one of Armstrong/Hawes/Thompson

 

[Divide Et Impera]

I'd be happy with Hawes as a return for Stoudemire....

 

[SactownSunsFan]

I'd be happy with Hawes as a return for Stoudemire....

 

[Divide Et Impera]

I hope you realize I'm not talking straight up. I think Hawes is a decent player who can become the next Brad Miller. Why wouldn't we want that?

 

[SactownSunsFan]

Spencer Hawes has just about reached his ceiling, IMO. He's a back-up player on any team with actual frontcourt talent.

 

[asudevil83]

I'm surprised at how unwilling anyone is to pay Stoudemire $17.7 million next season. Sure, it's a lot of money for someone who doesn't show up every night, but it's just one year, and it's not like the guy doesn't produce.

Has Stoudemire's value fallen so far that no other team wants him except as an expiring contract?

not at all....but the idea of him as being nothing more than an expiring contract makes teams very weary of giving up anything of value for him.

the idea that he holds his future in his own hands and that he can basically do whatever he wants is scary for everyone.

anyone remember what happened with McDyess early in his career? we traded a boatload of stuff to get our hands on him, only to see him walk after a season. no team wants to leverage their future with the thought of Amare walking away after a season.

hell we traded Wesley Person, Tony Dumas, 2 Firsts and 2 Seconds for him.....for a one year rental. you will NEVER see a team do that again.

 

[Suns_fan69]

I'm surprised at how unwilling anyone is to pay Stoudemire $17.7 million next season. Sure, it's a lot of money for someone who doesn't show up every night, but it's just one year, and it's not like the guy doesn't produce.

Has Stoudemire's value fallen so far that no other team wants him except as an expiring contract?

I think a lot has to do with the fabled 2010 class. Amare opting in means Philly would miss out at a chance at the big 3 of James, Bosh, Wade.

 

[slinslin]

not at all....but the idea of him as being nothing more than an expiring contract makes teams very weary of giving up anything of value for him.

the idea that he holds his future in his own hands and that he can basically do whatever he wants is scary for everyone.

anyone remember what happened with McDyess early in his career? we traded a boatload of stuff to get our hands on him, only to see him walk after a season. no team wants to leverage their future with the thought of Amare walking away after a season.

hell we traded Wesley Person, Tony Dumas, 2 Firsts and 2 Seconds for him.....for a one year rental. you will NEVER see a team do that again.

Didn't we trade 3 firsts for McDyess? Or was it Penny?

 

[asudevil83]

Didn't we trade 3 firsts for McDyess? Or was it Penny?

Penny was 2 Firsts and Manning

 

[Chaplin]

I think a lot has to do with the fabled 2010 class. Amare opting in means Philly would miss out at a chance at the big 3 of James, Bosh, Wade.

Exactly. This is a VERY unique year in terms of contracts. We probably won't see something like this ever again in the NBA.

 

[Folster]

The Sixers are the ones holding up a potential Amare Stoudemire for Andre Iguodala and Sam Dalembert trade, according to ESPN's Chad Ford.

When Amare heard he might be getting shipped to Philly's rebuilding process, he went public with his claims that he could opt in for his $17.69 million next season. That was likely enough to scare the Sixers off, who probably see Amare as an expiring contract more than a piece to build around. Expect the two sides to continue to talks.
Source: ESPN.com

Sounds like pure conjecture coming from Chad Ford. He makes it sound like the Suns have agreed to trade Stoudemire for Iguodala and Dalembert and the Sixers are just mulling it over. The more likely scenario is the Sixers offered the both players but Suns management is thinking long and hard about taking on those two contracts.

Gambo and Ash brought up a good point today: If Iguodala were a free agent right now, would you sign him to a four year deal starting at 12 mil and topping out close to 16 mil in the final season? Because that's Iggy's contract, and he's signed until 2014. I don't see Sarver even thinking about taking that on and rightly so. You don't trade a power forward who wants to be overpaid for a small forward who is overpaid. The Knicks used to take on everyone's bad contracts and look where that got them.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Gambo and Ash brought up a good point today: If Iguodala were a free agent right now, would you sign him to a four year deal starting at 12 mil and topping out close to 16 mil in the final season? Because that's Iggy's contract, and he's signed until 2014. I don't see Sarver even thinking about taking that on and rightly so. You don't trade a power forward who wants to be overpaid for a small forward who is overpaid. The Knicks used to take on everyone's bad contracts and look where that got them.

Exactly, there is absolutely no reason why we'd want Igoudala with his contract, or Dalembert for that matter. Iggy is decent, but certainly not worth 12-16 mil per, especially considering that the cap will go down. Dalembert is a poor fit for the system and would only take minutes away from Lopez. Young talent or high draft picks should be the only trades we consider.

 

[overseascardfan]

What this tells me is that Amare KNOWS that he ain't worth $17.7M. He threatens to opt out in an effort to control not going to a team he doesn't want to play for and, yet the Sixers are allegedly OK with him opting out. So, on the surface, you would think this is a win-win for Amare and the Sixers. Problem is that Amare knows that he'll be lucky to get a contract starting at $10M now. So, he doesn't REALLY want to opt out.

He's trying to crowbar his way into an extension to preserve some of his future gains....

If Amare excepts a non max contract, then keep him.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

If Amare excepts a non max contract, then keep him.

Agreed. He does have his warts, but I believe he is a top 20 player which is worth around max money. I just don't see him taking less than 13 million however. Hell, J Rich makes more than that, I'm sure Amare would be insulted to make less. It would be interesting to see what number Sarver has shown.

 

[cly2tw]

First, we owe to the Sixers for the Barkley trade. It's about time to let them be the winner of such a trade, for fairness' sake.

Second, Amare should have a smart enough advisor to use opt-in as a deterrence strategy for the likes of Sixers. Holding their cap for one more year absolutely screws up Sixers' plan to get all in next summer with as much as possible of cap available. They'd then have to wait one more year, the timing of which they probably don't like at all.

As a matter of fact, the same deal Sixers' want could still happen in the summer. Say Amare is sign-and-traded to Miami, then we could still make it 3-way to get Iggy and Dalembert by sending JRich to Sixers. The effect would be the same for Suns and Sixers.

 

[Covert Rain]

Exactly. This is a VERY unique year in terms of contracts. We probably won't see something like this ever again in the NBA.

I bet this turns out to be a big tease. IMO, Wade and Lebron are not leaving. Nobody can pay them as much as there current teams. I bet in the end Bosh is the only one that leaves. There is an outside chance that maybe one of the others leaves but certainly not all 3.

Teams like Philly don't have a shot at those players since if I understand it all want to end up with contending teams.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

Neither Lebron, Wade nor Bosh are going to any damned Philly.

I'd keep Amare at a salary starting at $8M for (what's the max term?) 6 years. He'd cap out at $14m to $15m at the end of the deal, which means that we'd want to trade him by year 5, but that's not a deal he'd take anyways, so screw it....

 

[elindholm]

I bet this turns out to be a big tease. IMO, Wade and Lebron are not leaving. Nobody can pay them as much as there current teams. I bet in the end Bosh is the only one that leaves. There is an outside chance that maybe one of the others leaves but certainly not all 3.

Teams like Philly don't have a shot at those players since if I understand it all want to end up with contending teams.

Miami's nowhere near a contender with Wade, and the only reason Cleveland is close is because of James. Either of those players could easily seek greener pastures. In the end, I agree that they are likely to stay put, but it will be because of money and a vague sense of comfort, not a desire to win.

Bosh is different because he has seemed miffed with Toronto management from time to time. Also, the team has been unclear about their commitment to him, first in making the big trade for Jermaine O'Neal, and now in featuring Bargnani more. He's the one most likely to leave out of dissatisfaction with his current situation.

 

[cly2tw]

Neither Lebron, Wade nor Bosh are going to any damned Philly.

I'd keep Amare at a salary starting at $8M for (what's the max term?) 6 years. He'd cap out at $14m to $15m at the end of the deal, which means that we'd want to trade him by year 5, but that's not a deal he'd take anyways, so screw it....

Hahah, that'd great, knowing David Lee would get a starting salary of 10 mil plus. Hope we pull this trick