Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017)

[Cheesebeef]

Considering this trailer came out just days after that Thor trailer, it's no surprise to me that it's more "meh" than "Yeah!"

Now THAT was a great teaser.

 

[Covert Rain]

Considering this trailer came out just days after that Thor trailer, it's no surprise to me that it's more "meh" than "Yeah!"

That and I agree with the above the anticipation is way different from this movie verses The Force Awakens.

 

[Stout]

Possibly, but why would Luke want the Jedi to end? That would open the door to the dark side taking over - no more balance to the force.


The AT-ATs are supposedly much, much bigger than previous versions and have a similar walk as a gorilla.

Remember in the prequels (blech!) they kept talking about bringing balance to the force. Well, tons of Jedi and few Sith does not lead to a kind of balance the good guys want. Maybe Luke's assuming that no Jedi will equal no Sith, thus bringing the ultimate balance.

 

[Covert Rain]

Remember in the prequels (blech!) they kept talking about bringing balance to the force. Well, tons of Jedi and few Sith does not lead to a kind of balance the good guys want. Maybe Luke's assuming that no Jedi will equal no Sith, thus bringing the ultimate balance.

No Jedi would default to the Sith ruling the galaxy. I think it's just an out of sequence line at the start of the movie with Luke resisting training Rey.

 

[Stout]

No Jedi would default to the Sith ruling the galaxy. I think it's just an out of sequence line at the start of the movie with Luke resisting training Rey.

It could very well be, but you missed the point. No Jedi = NO SITH. There can't be a Sith ruling the galaxy if there are, you know, no Sith left

 

[Chaplin]

Except if there is a Jedi (at the very least Luke), then by that reasoning there MUST be a Sith somewhere. Which of course leads to Snoke because Kylo Ren is no Sith.

But is it a 1:1 ratio? Are there more Sith because of Rey? If Luke and Snoke kill each other and Snoke was the last Sith, does Rey all of a sudden lose any Force power she had? Nature sucks.

 

[Covert Rain]

It could very well be, but you missed the point. No Jedi = NO SITH. There can't be a Sith ruling the galaxy if there are, you know, no Sith left

His line was about the Jedi not Sith. Are you suggesting that if the Jedi are gone the Force won't allow a Sith to exist?

I don't think that's how it works. The balance is not about equal presence of the light and dark wether two or zero.

"The idea of balance of the Force, a central tenet of the Jedi Order, refers to the ideal state in which the Force exists in nature, i.e. as the light side. The presence of the dark side corrupts and destroys this natural balance, and the Jedi viewed it as their duty to restore it."

 

[Stout]

His line was about the Jedi not Sith. Are you suggesting that if the Jedi are gone the Force won't allow a Sith to exist?

I don't think that's how it works. The balance is not about equal presence of the light and dark wether two or zero.

"The idea of balance of the Force, a central tenet of the Jedi Order, refers to the ideal state in which the Force exists in nature, i.e. as the light side. The presence of the dark side corrupts and destroys this natural balance, and the Jedi viewed it as their duty to restore it."

I'm just spit-balling, of course. There used to be a ton of Jedi and only two Sith, and they kept crying about getting balance. Maybe this is the 'lesson' Luke learned, although I also don't think how it really works. It was just a theory. Chap had a good post about that theory too. I'm suggesting, however, that LUKE might think that if the Jedi are gone the Force won't allow the Sith to exist.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

For some reason I thought there could only ever be two sith at any one time, no?

It seemed that every Sith Lord was as powerful as 10+ Jedi.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

If Luke and Snoke kill each other and Snoke was the last Sith, does Rey all of a sudden lose any Force power she had? Nature sucks.

Pretty sure her high midi-chlorian count would guarantee that she'd keep her force powers.

Thanks, George Lucas.

 

[Covert Rain]

For some reason I thought there could only ever be two sith at any one time, no?

It seemed that every Sith Lord was as powerful as 10+ Jedi.

Not sure that's a Force thing. I think it's a Sith thing. By nature they betray each other to be the most powerful. Makes sense to make sure you control the numbers trained.

 

[Chaplin]

And can it be quantified when Anakin ceased being a Jedi and instead became a Sith? Is there an exact moment? And when he does become a Sith, is there a new Jedi born? I would say Luke, but he and Leia were born well after Anakin had turned.

 

[Covert Rain]

And can it be quantified when Anakin ceased being a Jedi and instead became a Sith? Is there an exact moment? And when he does become a Sith, is there a new Jedi born? I would say Luke, but he and Leia were born well after Anakin had turned.

Right. That's why balance refers to their being no Sith verses equal numbers of each. Also, in line with what I posted above Vader wanted to overthrow The Emperor if Luke joined him.

 

[cardncubfan]

For some reason I thought there could only ever be two sith at any one time, no?

It seemed that every Sith Lord was as powerful as 10+ Jedi.

This is what I remember as well. One teacher & one student.

 

[BillsCarnage]

Luke turning to the dark side is possible and something I've wondered about with the poster. Both Luke and Ren are in red. There was a TFA poster in which Rey was blue, i think, and Ren was red. The way Rey fought Ren with the saber, she seems to have a bit of bad in her. In the poster her saber goes from blue to red. Could Rey be one of the so-called Grey Jedi?

Rian also confirms Luke is in fact the last Jedi.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

And can it be quantified when Anakin ceased being a Jedi and instead became a Sith? Is there an exact moment? And when he does become a Sith, is there a new Jedi born? I would say Luke, but he and Leia were born well after Anakin had turned.

I'd say when he killed the sand people or prevented Windu from killing Palpatine.

Stouts theory is interesting. There can't be a ying w/o the yang and if the Jedi cease to exist then what balance is needed with the force? Maybe the Sith lose their force powers since there is no one to balance it.

Re: Grey Jedi

They believed that the Force did indeed have distinct Light and Dark sides, inherently good and evil, regardless of the user's intentions. But, without one side, the other could not exist, and to truly be one with the Force, both must be mastered. Like all Jedi, they wielded lightsabers but, unlike them, studied and practiced all aspects of the Force.

Trans-Jedi?

 

[Chaplin]

I personally don't think it's a "forced" balance. If there are more Sith than Jedi, there there is an imbalance in the Force. Same with vice versa. I think it would be too strict to think that there are always equal numbers of both sides.

 

[Covert Rain]

I personally don't think it's a "forced" balance. If there are more Sith than Jedi, there there is an imbalance in the Force. Same with vice versa. I think it would be too strict to think that there are always equal numbers of both sides.

This. I actually pulled that bit about balance off a Star Wars site and I have a similar quote in my Star Wars Encyclopedia. So it sounds like balance has nothing to do with numbers. The idea is that the Dark Side "clouds" the force, corrupts it and therefore throws it out of balance.

Although, I don't think Luke has gone dark, I guess it is feasible that there are things that are "new" we are going to get introduced to. Luke infers in the trailer there is "so much more". So, maybe it's going to change some things?

Then again it could just be throw away dialogue for the trailer. Mark Hamil said this weekend that he did ADR just for the trailer.

 

[oaken1]

I'm just spit-balling, of course. There used to be a ton of Jedi and only two Sith, and they kept crying about getting balance. Maybe this is the 'lesson' Luke learned, although I also don't think how it really works. It was just a theory. Chap had a good post about that theory too. I'm suggesting, however, that LUKE might think that if the Jedi are gone the Force won't allow the Sith to exist.

the prophecy foretold that one would come who would bring balance to the force(Anakin)...and he did...he and the emperor for the dark side, and yoda and obi wan for the light side....balance,.........

there are only ever two sith...one master and one apprentice.....the rest are just practitioners of the dark side...
perhaps luke feels the orders need to die and just leave the universe with various practitioners of the force as it would seem that having a "Light side" and a "dark side"...kind of builds in the concept of opposition,...thus,...demands conflict

 

[Chaplin]

the prophecy foretold that one would come who would bring balance to the force(Anakin)...and he did...he and the emperor for the dark side, and yoda and obi wan for the light side....balance,.........

there are only ever two sith...one master and one apprentice.....the rest are just practitioners of the dark side...
perhaps luke feels the orders need to die and just leave the universe with various practitioners of the force as it would seem that having a "Light side" and a "dark side"...kind of builds in the concept of opposition,...thus,...demands conflict

That's flawed because while Palpetine and Darth Maul fit your theory, there was no apprentice for several years after that until Anakin turned. So there technically isn't ALWAYS a master and apprentice.

And even in the current timeline, we know Ren isn't an apprentice or a Master. If Snoke is a master, then who is the apprentice? Too many paradoxes.

 

[Bodha]

Ive never understood the 2 sith thing. So youre telling me in the millenias that the Sith exist, nobody was able to kill both the student and teacher within the same time frame?

Kill both, boom, sith forever extinct.

Its just a ridiculous notion. Because really theres only 1 sith at a time. A teacher whos teaching a student whos not a full sith yet. Or a grown student (Vader) and a teacher (Palpatine) whos old and no longer capable of being that sith warrior anymore.

So theres only 1 physically capable sith in the universe at any one time. Ooh how scary.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

That's flawed because while Palpatine and Darth Maul fit your theory, there was no apprentice for several years after that until Anakin turned. So there technically isn't ALWAYS a master and apprentice.

Count Dooku was Palpatine's next apprentice. Dooku became Darth Tyranus.

 

[Covert Rain]

Well the Sith by nature turned to subterfuge, hiding and manipulating from the shadows. Some of the old cannon hinted that once the Sith were basically eradicated they turned to other methods (One Master & Apprentice). However, we also know that they also used "force sensitives" called the Inquisitors (via Star Wars Rebels which is canon).

So, it's not like the Jedi could simply hunt them down. In fact, Yoda mentions that the presence of the dark side clouds even their ability to see the future or present clearly. Which is why Palpatine wasn't discovered sooner.

The fact that they were able to take over the Senate through manipulation proves what a smart tactic that was.

P.S. Kylo Ren is the apprentice of Snoke.

 

[Bert]

Actually, I'm super psyched about some Jedi training with Luke and Rey!

 

[Covert Rain]

Actually, I'm super psyched about some Jedi training with Luke and Rey!

So am I. Always kind of felt like I wanted to see more.

 

[Stout]

Actually, I'm super psyched about some Jedi training with Luke and Rey!

Eh, I feel it can get into the whole "we've done this before, so we're just going to copy it" crap they did with TFA. I mean, I liked TFA, but it really walked the line.