Suns at Jazz

[jpdavis82]

Sorry, let me clarify...if we win and the Mavs lose tomorrow, are we then 2.5 out?

Yes we would be 2.5 back if the Mavs lose @Cleveland and we win @ Sacramento, but had we won tonight we would have been 1.5 back in that same scenario. Oh well, gotta go 9-0 or 8-1 now, but we still have a CHANCE so don't give up.

GO SUNS!!! WE BELIEVE

 

[slinslin]

we cant defend

No, didn't nashman teach us that we are a much better team without Amare, on offense and defense.

 

[Andrew]

Yes we would be 2.5 back if the Mavs lose @Cleveland and we win @ Sacramento, but had we won tonight we would have been 1.5 back in that same scenario. Oh well, gotta go 9-0 or 8-1 now, but we still have a CHANCE so don't give up.

GO SUNS!!! WE BELIEVE

The only game I consider a loss now is NO...

 

[nashman]

piss off slin with your backhanded jabs I didn't say anything in this thread! your man Amare wouldn't have done anything in this game except get abused on defense probably by one of their stiffs!

 

[cly2tw]

Gentry was not gutsy enough to sub in Dragic for Nash with 5 pt lead and about one min to play in regulation. Nash was again way too slow and too short to bother that Okur 3pt shot, not to mention getting crossed for uncontested jumper to tie the game by Deron. Neither would have been as easy, had Dragic replaced Nash. Sigh.

 

[AfroSuns]

My fear is they will lose to the lowly Kings due to tired legs, having to come back from a huge deficit and playing overtime.

 

[dodie53]

just watched the replay of this game,
was shouting like crazy when the suns were catching up and leading,
in the end..
:sigh:

oh well.

 

[lou_skywalker]

tough loss but if everything happens as it should be then by monday we will be 2.5 games away

 

[slinslin]

My fear is they will lose to the lowly Kings due to tired legs, having to come back from a huge deficit and playing overtime.

No, since the coaching change (and playing the old style that won't win a champioship) to save this season, we are too good at beating awful teams and then nashman can log on to tell us how much better we are on offense and defense without Amare.

 

[Chaplin]

Gentry was not gutsy enough to sub in Dragic for Nash with 5 pt lead and about one min to play in regulation. Nash was again way too slow and too short to bother that Okur 3pt shot, not to mention getting crossed for uncontested jumper to tie the game by Deron. Neither would have been as easy, had Dragic replaced Nash. Sigh.

Please, NO coach would be "gutsy" enough to do that.

 

[binkar]

piss off slin with your backhanded jabs I didn't say anything in this thread! your man Amare wouldn't have done anything in this game except get abused on defense probably by one of their stiffs!

Yah Amare wouldn't have done anything in a game where all of our shooters were completely awful. It wouldn't have helped at all to have one of the best offensive players in the game who shoots at an extremely high percentage.

Come on man. That was a ridiculously ignorant comment nashman. You can't really believe that having Amare wouldn't have helped tonight can you?

 

[elindholm]

Gentry was not gutsy enough to sub in Dragic for Nash with 5 pt lead and about one min to play in regulation. Nash was again way too slow and too short to bother that Okur 3pt shot, not to mention getting crossed for uncontested jumper to tie the game by Deron. Neither would have been as easy, had Dragic replaced Nash. Sigh.

Please, NO coach would be "gutsy" enough to do that.

When O'Neal was with the Lakers, Jackson often benched him at the ends of close games because he was an unacceptable liability at the free-throw line. This would seem to me to be a similar situation. However, the point about wanting Nash out on the floor for free-throw purposes is well taken.

 

[cly2tw]

When O'Neal was with the Lakers, Jackson often benched him at the ends of close games because he was an unacceptable liability at the free-throw line. This would seem to me to be a similar situation. However, the point about wanting Nash out on the floor for free-throw purposes is well taken.

5 pts qualify as comfortable lead with less than 1 min left. If we make the stops, even with only a 3 pt lead after the Okur 3, missing FT won't even be much concern as we are still in lead.

 

[cly2tw]

After assisting on Memo Okur's three-pointer that made it 88-86 with 50 seconds left, Williams hit two jumpers to force overtime. The last one was a 15-footer after he passed to Ronnie Brewer, whose pass back was deflected.

Luckily for the Jazz, Williams picked it up and scored. "I passed it to Ronnie Brewer and I thought he was going to be able to get a shot off," Williams said, laughing. "But he got a little scared with the ball and kind of threw it out there. I picked it up and knew I had Steve Nash on me. I thought I could get a shot over him so I let it go."

Confidence it the last thing you want your opponents have in crunch time. Yet, Nash's presence makes them confident.

 

[nashman]

Yeah cly because Williams is and Allstar, just like Nash can get up a shot over his ass anytime too! Sometimes guys make shots you expect your stars to be confident what should he have said...geesh. This team has heart they displayed it on the road in Utah where they are what against WC teams 23-1? they have lost one time, it was a blowout then when fought and almost stole a game we had no business winning after our pathetic first half. To pin this loss on Nash is dumb hopefully thats not what your suggesting.

 

[binkar]

Yeah cly because Williams is and Allstar, just like Nash can get up a shot over his ass anytime too! Sometimes guys make shots you expect your stars to be confident what should he have said...geesh. This team has heart they displayed it on the road in Utah where they are what against WC teams 23-1? they have lost one time, it was a blowout then when fought and almost stole a game we had no business winning after our pathetic first half. To pin this loss on Nash is dumb hopefully thats not what your suggesting.

We almost won a game we had no business losing after the first half and then lost a game we had no business losing in the last few minutes.

I wouldn't blame the loss on Nash necessarily, but he clearly didn't have a great game.

I love Nash, but you can't argue the fact that he is a poor defender and at times that hurts us. Does that mean having Steve on the team hurts us? No, not by any means, but trying to argue that Nash isn't a poor defender would be a completely ignorant argument.

 

[Wally]

When O'Neal was with the Lakers, Jackson often benched him at the ends of close games because he was an unacceptable liability at the free-throw line. This would seem to me to be a similar situation. However, the point about wanting Nash out on the floor for free-throw purposes is well taken.

On the last play in regulation and there was one second left on the clock Nash should not have been in the game to defend Williams. Williams got a good shot but missed & game went into OT. Otherwise I agree Nash should be in for the FT purpose: however, in that one second, the game is either in OT, won by the Jazz, or Williams is at the FT line.

 

[cly2tw]

Yeah cly because Williams is and Allstar, just like Nash can get up a shot over his ass anytime too! Sometimes guys make shots you expect your stars to be confident what should he have said...geesh. This team has heart they displayed it on the road in Utah where they are what against WC teams 23-1? they have lost one time, it was a blowout then when fought and almost stole a game we had no business winning after our pathetic first half. To pin this loss on Nash is dumb hopefully thats not what your suggesting.

I was blaming Gentry for not doing a defensive sub to allow Nash lose the games for us with his defense. Nash's inability to defend was a given. He would only then to blame if Gentry asked and he insisted on being on the court. Hurting Nash's pride would have been the reason for not do the switch.

 

[mojorizen7]

Its difficult for a HC to manage a close ball game with under 2 min left and start subbing guys on every possession for better matchups. Having said that, staring at my tv after timeouts and watching the JAZZ inbound the ball and get it to Deron Williams and watching him go 1v1 against Nash at the top of the key over and over again is unacceptable from a SUNS fan point of view.
And whats with Nash setting screens in the paint against the likes of Boozer and AK to free up Shaq in the post? Saw that last night(late in the game) and nearly fell off my couch in disgusted laughter.
Nash has more "clutch" in his right arm than anybody else on this team does combined ,but it's time to L_e_t g_o.

 

[cly2tw]

Its difficult for a HC to manage a close ball game with under 2 min left and start subbing guys on every possession for better matchups. Having said that, staring at my tv after timeouts and watching the JAZZ inbound the ball and get it to Deron Williams and watching him go 1v1 against Nash at the top of the key over and over again is unacceptable from a SUNS fan point of view.
And whats with Nash setting screens in the paint against the likes of Boozer and AK to free up Shaq in the post? Saw that last night(late in the game) and nearly fell off my couch in disgusted laughter.
Nash has more "clutch" in his right arm than anybody else on this team does combined ,but it's time to L_e_t g_o.

Stockton was a master at getting calls by setting those screens. Nash is trying now in the last 5 games but really hasn't learned how to either hold his ground or fall if pushed hard to selll the fouls, for the team's advantage. As of now, he gets pushed but only "softly" sink/shrink to the floor for which no refs in the world would call a foul!

 

[Errntknght]

Nash has always set screens for bigs - thankfully, not very often and he doesn't brace himself so they can lean hard on him or get in their way when they're on the move. The most common one is for Amare at the elbow, just enough of a brush for him to get a half step.

John Stockton was amazing in this regard - he'd go down in the paint and really fight to keep some guy twice his size from following Malone across the lane.

Eddie House used to set quite a few screens - probably still does. The one I remember best is a back pick for Marion at the right elbow. Believe it or not, Leandro picked that up and did it a few times.

 

[mojorizen7]

Stockton was a master at getting calls by setting those screens. Nash is trying now in the last 5 games but really hasn't learned how to either hold his ground or fall if pushed hard to selll the fouls, for the team's advantage. As of now, he gets pushed but only "softly" sink/shrink to the floor for which no refs in the world would call a foul!

The thing about the Stockton/Nash comparison(in fairness to Nash) is that JS had a stronger body than Nash(especially in the legs) and also had a reputation for being a little...dirty. I call it scrappy but Nash isn't going to get those dirt worker type calls.
Also, i made reference to Nash being the Sundance Kid of NBA shooters....what i meant was that Nash is a much better shooter on the move. JS could spot up,catch and deliver as well as stop and pop. <talking about the 3 ball here specifically.
Although JS wasn't nearly as effective at shooting as Nash when on the move IMO.

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[cly2tw]

Also, i made reference to Nash being the Sundance Kid of NBA shooters....what i meant was that Nash is a much better shooter on the move. JS could spot up,catch and deliver as well as stop and pop. <talking about the 3 ball here specifically.
Although JS wasn't nearly as effective at shooting as Nash when on the move IMO.

Actually, shooting too much of the on the move shots is what makes Nash a lesser player than JS at this stage of their respective careers. Doing so, Nash dominates the ball way more than JS used to. This contributes to no well-practices alternative once Nash is neutralized or has an off night shooting, which is to happen too often against good teams.

Nash has always set screens for bigs - thankfully, not very often and he doesn't brace himself so they can lean hard on him or get in their way when they're on the move. The most common one is for Amare at the elbow, just enough of a brush for him to get a half step.

John Stockton was amazing in this regard - he'd go down in the paint and really fight to keep some guy twice his size from following Malone across the lane.

Eddie House used to set quite a few screens - probably still does. The one I remember best is a back pick for Marion at the right elbow. Believe it or not, Leandro picked that up and did it a few times.

You learn it by doing it often. Nash has been handling the ball most of his offensive court time, he is naturally not good at that than JS who had been doing it his entire career with great success. For this team right now, JS of the same age would be a better fit than Nash for his variety of roles on offense alone, not to mention better defense. I have been wishing for the last two years that Nash learn to play like Stockton. But maybe he is too old for that.