Suns, Eric Bledsoe Far Apart In Talks

[Errntknght]

At this level the money is largely symbolic- Kyrie got 80/5 so if Eric accepts 48/4 he's admitting the Kyrie is better than him. He probably thinks he's the better of the two - and he may well be right - but the Cavs wanted to pay Irving the max so then they could believe they had the best PG in the league. Reminds me of when we overpaid Marion so we'd have the 'best' SF in the league. Even owners aren't immune to equating salary with value.

 

[overseascardfan]

Just an off the wall thought (please take it for that) but the Suns seem to have a good relationship with the Pacers when it comes to trades. It is rumored the Pacers have had interest in Dragic for some time. Could the Suns do something like trade Bledsoe (instead of Dragic) in a sign and trade for Hibbert. The trade could work straight across but I think the Suns and Pacers would want want a larger package to improve their teams. However, Hibbert has a player option next season so this may spoil the idea.

The consensus on the board seems to be that Hibbert and Monroe would be terrible fits for PHX, I feel Monroe for the right price (not max money) could be a nice addition with PHX's shooters and penetrating G's. I agree with most that Hibbert is too overpaid for his lack of production.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The consensus on the board seems to be that Hibbert and Monroe would be terrible fits for PHX, I feel Monroe for the right price (not max money) could be a nice addition with PHX's shooters and penetrating G's. I agree with most that Hibbert is too overpaid for his lack of production.

I think they are terrible fits for anyone, not just the Suns. Hibbert is grossly overpaid and Monroe expects to join him. I think you can win with either player but not if you're paying them like stars, they are both no more than average at best IMO. But I want to know what shooters you're talking about? I think that's much more of a weakness for Phoenix than a strength.

Steve

 

[overseascardfan]

I think they are terrible fits for anyone, not just the Suns. Hibbert is grossly overpaid and Monroe expects to join him. I think you can win with either player but not if you're paying them like stars, they are both no more than average at best IMO. But I want to know what shooters you're talking about? I think that's much more of a weakness for Phoenix than a strength.

Steve

Green & Dragic are above average (40%), Marcus Morris & Tucker are average (38%), Thomas & Bledsoe are decent (35 - 36%). Tolliver has ability as well, at least that is why he was brought in.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Green & Dragic are above average (40%), Marcus Morris & Tucker are average (38%), Thomas & Bledsoe are decent (35 - 36%). Tolliver has ability as well, at least that is why he was brought in.

I think the presence of Channing Frye along with the threat of penetration from multiple spots gave us a lot of open looks from three that may not be duplicated this season. I suspect we'll see percentages drop from a couple of players.

Green shot 40% last season but 31% the year before. He shot 39% the year before that and his next previous NBA season he shot 30% from three. Dragic has a similar history and last year was also his banner year. I guess, viewed as a unit, we're dangerous from the field but we don't have a single player I would point to and say "there's a shooter".

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

I think the presence of Channing Frye along with the threat of penetration from multiple spots gave us a lot of open looks from three that may not be duplicated this season. I suspect we'll see percentages drop from a couple of players.

Green shot 40% last season but 31% the year before. He shot 39% the year before that and his next previous NBA season he shot 30% from three. Dragic has a similar history and last year was also his banner year. I guess, viewed as a unit, we're dangerous from the field but we don't have a single player I would point to and say "there's a shooter".

Steve

I never looked at Channing Frye and said, there is a shooter so I'm not pining his loss.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think they are terrible fits for anyone, not just the Suns. Hibbert is grossly overpaid and Monroe expects to join him. I think you can win with either player but not if you're paying them like stars, they are both no more than average at best IMO. But I want to know what shooters you're talking about? I think that's much more of a weakness for Phoenix than a strength.

Steve

After this discussion I'm wondering how they made an NBA roster. Sarcasm by me, I guess serious by you.

 

[SirStefan32]

Green has been a very inconsistent player prior to last year. It could be that he has become confident, could be that he finally figured it out, it could be Frye, it could be just the fact that Hornacek unleashed him, etc.

Dragic became a different player. I am reasonably sure it wasn't Frye.

I guess we'll see, but I think people are overestimating the Frye effect.

 

[Errntknght]

The average of the league on threes is 36.0%. If you count only players who logged 1000+ minutes it rises to 36.3%.

That is somewhat misleading as the players who played less than 1000 minutes shot 33.9% from 3. The apparent contradiction is due to the fact that the players with over a 1000 minutes played over 5 times as minutes and thus attempted over 5 times as many threes.

 

[AzStevenCal]

After this discussion I'm wondering how they made an NBA roster. Sarcasm by me, I guess serious by you.

I don't think you get ahead in the NBA by paying average starters as if they were superstars. I have no problem with having average players on the roster, every team has them and right now I'd love to have an average player starting at center for us. But I don't think paying them 15 million a year is smart.

IMO, Keef, showed more promise last season, than either Hibbert or Monroe. What would our future look like if we were paying Markieff 15 million a year? How many Lance Stephenson's will Indiana have to wave goodbye to because David Falk conned them into giving it all away to Hibbert? I'm not a huge Lance fan but he's so much better than Hibbert could ever hope to be.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

Green has been a very inconsistent player prior to last year. It could be that he has become confident, could be that he finally figured it out, it could be Frye, it could be just the fact that Hornacek unleashed him, etc.

Dragic became a different player. I am reasonably sure it wasn't Frye.

I guess we'll see, but I think people are overestimating the Frye effect.

I hope you're right. The difference in Dragic's effectiveness (as a shooter/scorer) when Frye was on the court was huge. Career making huge.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't think you get ahead in the NBA by paying average starters as if they were superstars. I have no problem with having average players on the roster, every team has them and right now I'd love to have an average player starting at center for us. But I don't think paying them 15 million a year is smart.

IMO, Keef, showed more promise last season, than either Hibbert or Monroe. What would our future look like if we were paying Markieff 15 million a year? How many Lance Stephenson's will Indiana have to wave goodbye to because David Falk conned them into giving it all away to Hibbert? I'm not a huge Lance fan but he's so much better than Hibbert could ever hope to be.

Steve

We agree about the money situation. Out of sheer boredom I was trying to figure out a sign and trade scenario where the Suns trade Bledsoe to Indiana, the Pacers get an upgrade at PG, Bledsoe gets his max money and the Suns get an upgrade at center on a short contract. Why would I care if Bledsoe gets his max money? I don't, but I do tend to take the devil's advocate role when things get stale and they are really stale right now.

 

[BC867]

I hope you're right. The difference in Dragic's effectiveness (as a shooter/scorer) when Frye was on the court was huge. Career making huge.

Steve

If it is business as usual, but without Frye (good percentage, bad percentage, drawing his opposing PF or C away from the basket, not drawing him away), we are not going to take the next step.

But if we compensate with better rebounding from the power positions to trigger fast breaks, offensive rebounds, muscling the opponent's bigs, scoring in the paint by others than our smallest players on the court ...

Disappointingly, that roster has not been formed so far this off-season.

The Front Office hasn't done it slow. They haven't done it fast. They have done it half-fast. (Say that a couple of times for best results.)

The dismantling began. But we didn't re-mantle.

Hmmm, were the Yankees dismantled when his drinking (thanks to Billy Martin and Whitey Ford) got the better of him?

 

[Errntknght]

I think we'll probably miss Frye in the early going but once Hornacek gets it all sorted out I think we'll be better than last year. The pundits opinion seems to be that we'll be considerably worse sans Channing as they are ranking us 20th in the league. Thats good, I hope they keep it up then we will surprise some teams again.

I wouldn't be too surprised if we come roaring out of the gate - our second unit will blitz many opponents. I'd like to see Horny using shorter than usual rotation segments to keep fresh legs running the break. I'd particularly like to see the opps starters having to deal with Thomas about the time they're beginning to tire. It could give us mismatches the whole game long and it will mess with opponents heads if they decide to match our substitution pattern.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If it is business as usual, but without Frye (good percentage, bad percentage, drawing his opposing PF or C away from the basket, not drawing him away), we are not going to take the next step.

But if we compensate with better rebounding from the power positions to trigger fast breaks, offensive rebounds, muscling the opponent's bigs, scoring in the paint by others than our smallest players on the court ...

Disappointingly, that roster has not been formed so far this off-season.

The Front Office hasn't done it slow. They haven't done it fast. They have done it half-fast. (Say that a couple of times for best results.)

The dismantling began. But we didn't re-mantle

Hmmm, were the Yankees dismantled when his drinking (thanks to Billy Martin and Whitey Ford) got the better of him?

He drew his defender away from the key in 81 games, I'd say that's a pretty fair percentage of the time.

We are really just one year into the rebuild. What did you expect at this point? We were in a ten foot hole, now we're somewhere near ground level. A year ago at this time I thought we were at least 3 to 5 years away from reaching the point we reached last November. I have no complaints about the way they are doing this. Concerns yes, complaints no.

Steve

 

[Errntknght]

The 'good' Roy Hibbert would make us a playoff team but he fell apart so badly down the stretch and in the playoffs that I want no part of him. One of the worst things a team can have is someone that mentally or emotionally weak.

 

[sunsfan88]

Some people assume that Dragic started playing great mainly because Frye came back from his heart problems.

IMO no he didn't. Dragic started playing great because he had Hornacek as his HC.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Some people assume that Dragic started playing great mainly because Frye came back from his heart problems.

IMO no he didn't. Dragic started playing great because he had Hornacek as his HC.

I don't think that's what's going on, it's certainly not what I was referring to. I was talking about Goran's shooting percentage while Frye was on the court versus when he was not. I don't remember the numbers, perhaps someone that frequents the lineup stat sites can post them but the difference was striking.

Steve

 

[sunsfan88]

Bledsoe is a gigantic douchebag with serious entitlement issues. No, Eric- you are not Lebron James, you are not God's gift to humanity, and the world does not revolve around you (nor does the NBA). You elected to become a restricted free agent, so untwist your knickers and stop acting like a spoiled 12 year-old.

I hope this d-bag gets traded and never puts on a Suns uniform again.

EDIT:
I suppose it's possible that he is just not very smart and is more of an idiot than a d-bag. Either way, I don't want to see him in the Suns uniform again.

Your reading this all wrong. Bledsoe wants more money (just like me and you) however his agent isn't wise enough to tell Bledsoe that "Hey listen this is about the best offer for the best situation and best place you will get, let's take it".

This is what happens when players put too much into their agents hands. For example, look at Ed Davis agent. Him and Rich Paul may be the worst agents in the league.

 

[elindholm]

I think the real reason PHX signed Thomas is because they knew negotiations with Bledsoe & his agent were not going to go smoothly and trading him probably would end up being the outcome.

If that turns out to be the case, I'll give the front office a lot of credit for that foresight.

 

[Mainstreet]

Sort of related. The Arizona Cardinals star cornerback, Patrick Peterson, signed a 5 year, 70M dollar extension with only 48M guaranteed and that is only if he is injured. That's right, a 5 year contract with only 48M guaranteed. Perhaps Eric Bledsoe should smell the roses.

 

[PDXChris]

Sort of related. The Arizona Cardinals star cornerback, Patrick Peterson, signed a 5 year, 70M dollar extension with only 48M guaranteed and that is only if he is injured. That's right, a 5 year contract with only 48M guaranteed. Perhaps Eric Bledsoe should smell the roses.

You are not alone in that thought.

Mike Jurecki @mikejurecki · 11h Just think the "guaranteed money" that Peterson received from the Cardinals is what the Suns are offering Eric Bledsoe. Peterson earned it!

 

[devilalum]

I wonder how being part of Lebron's "inner circle" is effecting this whole situation. Its the same agent and the guy only represents a handful of players. Do they expect preferential treatment because they're part of "The King's" entourage? IMO the Lebron association is factoring into this situation.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Sort of related. The Arizona Cardinals star cornerback, Patrick Peterson, signed a 5 year, 70M dollar extension with only 48M guaranteed and that is only if he is injured. That's right, a 5 year contract with only 48M guaranteed. Perhaps Eric Bledsoe should smell the roses.

not related at all. 48 million guaranteed is a HUGE amount for a CB in a league where salaries aren't guaranteed. there's literally no comparing NFL contracts to NBA contracts.

 

[Mainstreet]

I wonder how being part of Lebron's "inner circle" is effecting this whole situation. Its the same agent and the guy only represents a handful of players. Do they expect preferential treatment because they're part of "The King's" entourage? IMO the Lebron association is factoring into this situation.

I think you are correct about the "inner circle" thing. The contract the Suns are offering Bledsoe is more than fair especially if one considers injury and career stats. He had a good partial partial season with the Suns and now he wants the maximum. There definitely seems to be a sense of entitlement because he has not earned it. Someone can argue about stats but they are there for all to see over four seasons.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bledser01.html