Suns, Eric Bledsoe Far Apart In Talks

[Budden]

I don't think so because the Suns official stance has been they will match any offer and they want to keep Bledsoe. I think if we here of a sign and trade for Bledsoe it will be close to a done deal.

However, (IMO), the Suns and Bledsoe are likely in a sign and trade mode but they can't find the right trade.

IMO, the Suns' official stance - that they'll match other team's offers - is the actual worst way to run a team. It means the Suns don't actually have an opinion about the people who play for their team. Rather, they want to let the GMs and owners of the 29 other teams tell them what to think about their players.

What's Bledsoe worth? Uhhh, I dunno.. I saw him practice and play every day for the past 8 months, flew cross country with him 3 times a week, checked into hotel rooms in Minnesota and Cleveland and Utah at 3am, saw him absolutely exhausted, absolutely full of energy, saw him healthy, saw him injured, watched him rehab, watched him thrive...

But what's Bledsoe worth? Lemme refresh my twitter feed and see if @PhilJacksonsDaughter has an opinion and I'll get back to you.

 

[AzStevenCal]

IMO, the Suns' official stance -

It means the Suns don't actually have an opinion about the people who play for their team. Rather, they want to let the GMs and owners of the 29 other teams tell them what to think about their players.

What's Bledsoe worth? Uhhh, I dunno.. I saw him practice and play every day for the past 8 months, flew cross country with him 3 times a week, checked into hotel rooms in Minnesota and Cleveland and Utah at 3am, saw him absolutely exhausted, absolutely full of energy, saw him healthy, saw him injured, watched him rehab, watched him thrive...

But what's Bledsoe worth? Lemme refresh my twitter feed and see if @PhilJacksonsDaughter has an opinion and I'll get back to you.

It's a star driven league and they consider Bledsoe to be a star in the making. Their approach seems to be that it's better to overpay to keep a star then lose him for nothing. It doesn't mean they don't have a grasp of his value, they've just chosen to not overpay right out of the gate. I think the worst way to run a team would be to offer your absolute max at the start of the process.

Steve

 

[elindholm]

IMO, the Suns' official stance - that they'll match other team's offers - is the actual worst way to run a team. It means the Suns don't actually have an opinion about the people who play for their team.

Boy, I know that most of what you do is just looking for a response, but this is pretty out there. The Suns have offered $48 million over 4 years. That's their opinion, and it's probably a pretty good one. All they're saying is, if someone else out there is desperate to overpay you, we'd rather have the burden of overpaying you ourselves rather than lose you altogether. There's nothing wrong with that, and there's a reason that all well-run franchises in the league do it.

 

[Mainstreet]

IMO, the Suns' official stance - that they'll match other team's offers - is the actual worst way to run a team. It means the Suns don't actually have an opinion about the people who play for their team. Rather, they want to let the GMs and owners of the 29 other teams tell them what to think about their players.

What's Bledsoe worth? Uhhh, I dunno.. I saw him practice and play every day for the past 8 months, flew cross country with him 3 times a week, checked into hotel rooms in Minnesota and Cleveland and Utah at 3am, saw him absolutely exhausted, absolutely full of energy, saw him healthy, saw him injured, watched him rehab, watched him thrive...

But what's Bledsoe worth? Lemme refresh my twitter feed and see if @PhilJacksonsDaughter has an opinion and I'll get back to you.

The Suns have offered Bledsoe 4 years, 48 million contract which is still on the table. The Suns have the right to match any offer sheet by another team.

 

[Covert Rain]

IMO, the Suns' official stance - that they'll match other team's offers - is the actual worst way to run a team. It means the Suns don't actually have an opinion about the people who play for their team. Rather, they want to let the GMs and owners of the 29 other teams tell them what to think about their players.

What's Bledsoe worth? Uhhh, I dunno.. I saw him practice and play every day for the past 8 months, flew cross country with him 3 times a week, checked into hotel rooms in Minnesota and Cleveland and Utah at 3am, saw him absolutely exhausted, absolutely full of energy, saw him healthy, saw him injured, watched him rehab, watched him thrive...

But what's Bledsoe worth? Lemme refresh my twitter feed and see if @PhilJacksonsDaughter has an opinion and I'll get back to you.

Uhhhhh what?!?! It has absolutely ZERO to do with not knowing his value. The Suns not only know his value but they offered him comparable value based on similar signings. It's Bledsoe that is not signing. The Suns are now waiting to see if other teams offer him more than the perceived market value. What about that is wrong? That's how the market works. Your worth is determined by what the market is willing to pay. Bledsoe doesn't want to sign the market value contract.

So, the Suns are basically telling the agent...go shop yourself around. See if anybody will pay you more. If they do, we will match. Guess what? Nobody has made another offer to him. Sounds to me like the Suns are right on when it comes to knowing his market value or teams would probably be trying to sign him to a more lucrative offer sheet.

So again...what?!!?

 

[Budden]

Boy, I know that most of what you do is just looking for a response, but this is pretty out there. The Suns have offered $48 million over 4 years. That's their opinion, and it's probably a pretty good one. All they're saying is, if someone else out there is desperate to overpay you, we'd rather have the burden of overpaying you ourselves rather than lose you altogether. There's nothing wrong with that, and there's a reason that all well-run franchises in the league do it.

You're right that my "actual worst" comment was excessive. But I don't understand why a team would have an official position that they will meet any offer that Bledsoe gets. Even if that is 100% true, why say it publicly? Championship teams have stories that everyone - the players, coaches, fans - buy into, get motivation from, and rally around. The Spurs started this past season on a mission to rectify the prior season's Game 6 mistake. The Heat had the "we signed here to achieve the ultimate goal".

Last year's Suns team was one of the most inspiring stories in the NBA. It's important to build on that. The longer this process drags on without a resolution, the more likely everyone is to latch on to a less inspiring narrative.

Lastly, you're right that most of my posts are looking for a response. I think that every single one of YOUR posts is looking for a response, too. I know this, because you post them on a message board on the internet rather than writing them down on your private journal and tucking them away in a locked drawer. Not sure I see the difference.

 

[SwingMan]

Uhhhhh what?!?! It has absolutely ZERO to do with not knowing his value. The Suns not only know his value but they offered him comparable value based on similar signings. It's Bledsoe that is not signing. The Suns are now waiting to see if other teams offer him more than the perceived market value. What about that is wrong? That's how the market works. Your worth is determined by what the market is willing to pay. Bledsoe doesn't want to sign the market value contract.

So, the Suns are basically telling the agent...go shop yourself around. See if anybody will pay you more. If they do, we will match. Guess what? Nobody has made another offer to him. Sounds to me like the Suns are right on when it comes to knowing his market value or teams would probably be trying to sign him to a more lucrative offer sheet.

So again...what?!!?

This.

Time for Bledsoe and his agent to (pun intended) put their money where their mouth is - the ball is clearly in their court. The market is determining his value even as we speak - and it isn't looking good at all for the max hardline Bledsoe's agent is holding. Plain & simple.

I see nothing wrong whatsoever with how McDonough & Co. are conducting themselves here - 4/48 is more than fair for half a season's worth of solid play. Personally, I'd put an incentive in the deal featuring a bonus if Bledsoe actually manages to get his ast/to ratio above 2:1.

 

[sunsfan88]

He is not even the best player on his own team (like PP clearly is right now).

When did Fitzgerald get traded?

 

[devilalum]

IMO, the Suns' official stance - that they'll match other team's offers - is the actual worst way to run a team.

OK, what if the Suns said nothing all season, gave no indication whatsoever that they would or would not match. Bledsoe goes and negotiates a nice contract with the Cavs thinking he can now be Lebron's top toadie on a daily basis and BAM, 3 days later the Suns match. IMO that would be worse.

 

[sunsfan88]

You're right that my "actual worst" comment was excessive. But I don't understand why a team would have an official position that they will meet any offer that Bledsoe gets. Even if that is 100% true, why say it publicly? Championship teams have stories that everyone - the players, coaches, fans - buy into, get motivation from, and rally around. The Spurs started this past season on a mission to rectify the prior season's Game 6 mistake. The Heat had the "we signed here to achieve the ultimate goal".

Last year's Suns team was one of the most inspiring stories in the NBA. It's important to build on that. The longer this process drags on without a resolution, the more likely everyone is to latch on to a less inspiring narrative.

Lastly, you're right that most of my posts are looking for a response. I think that every single one of YOUR posts is looking for a response, too. I know this, because you post them on a message board on the internet rather than writing them down on your private journal and tucking them away in a locked drawer. Not sure I see the difference.

What difference does it make if the Suns said this or that?

Don't people know that GMs lie and can't be trusted?

 

[Phrazbit]

I don't think so because the Suns official stance has been they will match any offer and they want to keep Bledsoe. I think if we here of a sign and trade for Bledsoe it will be close to a done deal.

However, (IMO), the Suns and Bledsoe are likely in a sign and trade mode but they can't find the right trade.

I disagree for a couple reasons.

One, why should the Suns change strategies? If they had any willingness of a sign and trade they probably would have pursued those options much earlier in the process when more teams were in flux and more moves were available. The strategy they've shown is one of patience and its one that will almost certainly result in the contract the Suns previously offered... or a couple million more to allow Bledsoe and his agent to save face. I dont see any chance Eric signs the qualifying offer, and unless Bledsoe can get an offer from another team then he has zero leverage... which brings up the second point.

Two, its likely that even if the Suns opened up sign and trade avenues that there is no team out there willing to give Bledsoe the money he is asking for. Furthermore, I'd say its virtually certain that no team would want to face the prospect of paying Bledsoe 60+ million AND give the Suns decent trade compensation on top of that.

This situation has happened over and over again across several sports, it happened just last year in the NBA with Nikola Pekovic and the Timberwolves. He sat in free agency, looking for big money, got no offers and eventually signed with the Wolves in mid August for 12 mil a year (sound familiar?).

 

[Mainstreet]

I disagree for a couple reasons.

One, why should the Suns change strategies? If they had any willingness of a sign and trade they probably would have pursued those options much earlier in the process when more teams were in flux and more moves were available. The strategy they've shown is one of patience and its one that will almost certainly result in the contract the Suns previously offered... or a couple million more to allow Bledsoe and his agent to save face. I dont see any chance Eric signs the qualifying offer, and unless Bledsoe can get an offer from another team then he has zero leverage... which brings up the second point.

I think the Suns strategy has been to keep Bledsoe and they have made it clear to other NBA teams they will match any offer. However, at some point in time relationships can turn sour like with Joe Johnson. Hopefully this has not happened but I suspect it is close or privately at this point. The trouble is, Bledsoe has not found a suitor to his liking that can offer the money and trade pieces. Even if the Suns win in negotiations and sign Bledsoe to the proposed 4 year, 48M contract, he may remain an unhappy camper and still need to be traded later on.

Two, its likely that even if the Suns opened up sign and trade avenues that there is no team out there willing to give Bledsoe the money he is asking for. Furthermore, I'd say its virtually certain that no team would want to face the prospect of paying Bledsoe 60+ million AND give the Suns decent trade compensation on top of that.

This situation has happened over and over again across several sports, it happened just last year in the NBA with Nikola Pekovic and the Timberwolves. He sat in free agency, looking for big money, got no offers and eventually signed with the Wolves in mid August for 12 mil a year (sound familiar?).

This is why Bledsoe feels the Suns are using the rules against him or rather, Bledsoe and agent have failed to navigate the rules to his advantage. There may be teams out there willing to offer him the four year max like perhaps the 76ers, but Bledsoe I'm sure wants to go to a winner or a major media hub.

 

[Budden]

The Suns not only know his value but they offered him comparable value based on similar signings. It's Bledsoe that is not signing. The Suns are now waiting to see if other teams offer him more than the perceived market value. What about that is wrong?

I think I will be wrong about this whole situation if the Suns end up either A) signing Bledsoe for the 4 years/$48 million, or B) matching a signed offer sheet for anything above 4 years/$60 million. Just wanted to get that on record so I won't have any wiggle room to rationalize away my opinion later after the situation gets resolved.

As far as what I think is wrong with letting other teams set the value of our personnel: every team operates under the exact same CBA with the same cap restrictions. In order to win a championship, you need to make personnel decisions that other teams WOULDN'T make. For instance, last offseason the Spurs signed Tiago Splitter to a very big contract and a lot of people on this board thought the Spurs made a huge mistake. But the Spurs front office saw something in Splitter that those criticizers on this board didn't see, and the Spurs had a vision for their team that had nothing to do with free market economics. Splitter wouldn't have been worth that much money on the Suns, but the Spurs aren't the Suns. They had a system they wanted to execute and they believed certain players could help them achieve that goal. So they paid Splitter based on what they thought he was worth IN THAT CONTEXT. What does it matter what Splitter was worth to other rosters?

Plus, there are more spendthrifty owners out there than Robert Sarver. Basing what we are willing to pay free agents on what the highest bidding other team is willing to pay is a game that the Suns will lose. We can't compete in that arena. The Suns front office should be focusing their efforts on a strategy that is aligned with that reality. I don't want the Suns to get into the position that the Thunder got into 3 years ago when they traded Harden.

 

[Superbone]

I disagree for a couple reasons.

One, why should the Suns change strategies? If they had any willingness of a sign and trade they probably would have pursued those options much earlier in the process when more teams were in flux and more moves were available. The strategy they've shown is one of patience and its one that will almost certainly result in the contract the Suns previously offered... or a couple million more to allow Bledsoe and his agent to save face. I dont see any chance Eric signs the qualifying offer, and unless Bledsoe can get an offer from another team then he has zero leverage... which brings up the second point.

Two, its likely that even if the Suns opened up sign and trade avenues that there is no team out there willing to give Bledsoe the money he is asking for. Furthermore, I'd say its virtually certain that no team would want to face the prospect of paying Bledsoe 60+ million AND give the Suns decent trade compensation on top of that.

This situation has happened over and over again across several sports, it happened just last year in the NBA with Nikola Pekovic and the Timberwolves. He sat in free agency, looking for big money, got no offers and eventually signed with the Wolves in mid August for 12 mil a year (sound familiar?).

At this point it's just a game of chicken to see who will flinch first.

 

[Superbone]

I think the Suns strategy has been to keep Bledsoe and they have made it clear to other NBA teams they will match any offer. However, at some point in time relationships can turn sour like with Joe Johnson. Hopefully this has not happened but I suspect it is close or privately at this point. The trouble is, Bledsoe has not found a suitor to his liking that can offer the money and trade pieces. Even if the Suns win in negotiations and sign Bledsoe to the proposed 4 year, 48M contract, he may remain an unhappy camper and still need to be traded later on.

Who cares. Bledsoe will get over it just like Pekovic, Gordon, et al.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think I will be wrong about this whole situation if the Suns end up either A) signing Bledsoe for the 4 years/$48 million, or B) matching a signed offer sheet for anything above 4 years/$60 million. Just wanted to get that on record so I won't have any wiggle room to rationalize away my opinion later after the situation gets resolved.

As far as what I think is wrong with letting other teams set the value of our personnel: every team operates under the exact same CBA with the same cap restrictions. In order to win a championship, you need to make personnel decisions that other teams WOULDN'T make. For instance, last offseason the Spurs signed Tiago Splitter to a very big contract and a lot of people on this board thought the Spurs made a huge mistake. But the Spurs front office saw something in Splitter that those criticizers on this board didn't see, and the Spurs had a vision for their team that had nothing to do with free market economics. Splitter wouldn't have been worth that much money on the Suns, but the Spurs aren't the Suns. They had a system they wanted to execute and they believed certain players could help them achieve that goal. So they paid Splitter based on what they thought he was worth IN THAT CONTEXT. What does it matter what Splitter was worth to other rosters?

Plus, there are more spendthrifty owners out there than Robert Sarver. Basing what we are willing to pay free agents on what the highest bidding other team is willing to pay is a game that the Suns will lose. We can't compete in that arena. The Suns front office should be focusing their efforts on a strategy that is aligned with that reality. I don't want the Suns to get into the position that the Thunder got into 3 years ago when they traded Harden.

The Suns have already set the market value of Bledsoe at 48 million over 4 years until another team submits a higher offer sheet. You leave yourself a lot of wiggle room with option "B) matching a signed offer sheet for anything above 4 years/$60 million." I believe the max for Bledsoe is close to that right now, although it may be up to 63 million, I'm not sure. However, I don't think 3 million would be a deal breaker. Also, I think you are painting a picture of Sarver with an old brush.

 

[Superbone]

The Suns have already set the market value of Bledsoe at 48 million over 4 years until another team submits a higher offer sheet. You leave yourself a lot of wiggle room with option "B) matching a signed offer sheet for anything above 4 years/$60 million." I believe the max for Bledsoe is close to that right now, although it may be up to 63 million, I'm not sure. However, I don't think 3 million would be a deal breaker. Also, I think you are painting a picture of Sarver with an old brush.

Yeah, at the minimum, at least dip that brush in some paint thinner.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah, at the minimum, at least dip that brush in some paint thinner.

I think with the thinner we can use an airbrush.

 

[devilalum]

Who cares. Bledsoe will get over it just like Pekovic, Gordon, et al.

I wish I had a list of every "irreparable" player team relationship that was repaired by a nice fat contract. I could use it to wall paper my garage.

 

[chickenhead]

If Bledsoe and his agent see him as a max player, then they are going to want the 5th year from the Suns, or 4 years from another team--which is every other team's max duration. Since the Suns are the only team that can offer 5, to do so is to bid against themselves, unless they are working towards a 5-year figure that is less than Bledsoe's current demand.

If they don't want to commit to 5 years, then they should do exactly what they are doing: you can say that they are letting other team's dictate the market, but they also need a floor that other teams can work with for a sign-and-trade.

 

[Superbone]

I wish I had a list of every "irreparable" player team relationship that was repaired by a nice fat contract. I could use it to wall paper my garage.

 

[devilalum]

Maybe they're hell bent on a 5 year contract because they know he'll only play 4 years worth of games.

 

[JCSunsfan]

If Bledsoe and his agent see him as a max player, then they are going to want the 5th year from the Suns, or 4 years from another team--which is every other team's max duration. Since the Suns are the only team that can offer 5, to do so is to bid against themselves, unless they are working towards a 5-year figure that is less than Bledsoe's current demand.

If they don't want to commit to 5 years, then they should do exactly what they are doing: you can say that they are letting other team's dictate the market, but they also need a floor that other teams can work with for a sign-and-trade.

The Suns have dictated the market. They offered 4/48. This has been no secret. any other team has had opportunity to beat that offer. No one bothered. No one has even tried to make a reasonable sign and trade offer.

 

[devilalum]

The Suns have dictated the market. They offered 4/48. This has been no secret. any other team has had opportunity to beat that offer. No one bothered. No one has even tried to make a reasonable sign and trade offer.

If there was a way I'd bet money that no other team would give him more than 4/48. Maybe the reason no other teams made him an offer is that his agent spread the word that he only wanted max money.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If there was a way I'd bet money that no other team would give him more than 4/48. Maybe the reason no other teams made him an offer is that his agent spread the word that he only wanted max money.

I think there are a bunch of teams (or at least, were a bunch of teams) that would pay him 12 to 14 mil a year but to do that AND give up assets, that's a losing proposition. You might risk the lack of experience and the big bucks AND the injury history but when you throw in the loss of several assets it's just too much IMO. I'm a huge Bledsoe supporter, I'd pay whatever it took to keep him but even I wouldn't agree to a huge contract AND give up multiple assets for him.

Steve