Suns look to trade up to #2 for Williams

[JCSunsfan]

I would be stunned if there were NO career starters out of this group unless you mean from day one forward. And if that's all you're saying, well, that's often the case for most players (even those that grow into superstar status). I wouldn't even rule out a franchise level player out of this group although nobody has really stood out enough to justify that projection.

Steve

Yeah, there is always someone who surprises.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I agree. The Suns do not need another gamble on an Earl Clark type player. Unless Williams is projected to be a star quality NBA PF (a position he reportedly does not want to play) the Suns should not pursue him. If the Suns want to move up in the draft they might want to look at Toronto at #5 or other possible options with other teams that might cost less.

I hope I didn't say anything that led to a Derrick Williams/Earl Clark comparison. Earl had great physical gifts but nothing upstairs. Derrick is a smart, hard working, team first guy that will give you everything he's got. My only concern about him is whether he'll be quick enough to succeed at the three spot or big enough to succeed at the four. As such, I don't think he's a lock to pay off as a top 2 pick but, I certainly wouldn't count him out (regardless of position).

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

I hope I didn't say anything that led to a Derrick Williams/Earl Clark comparison. Earl had great physical gifts but nothing upstairs. Derrick is a smart, hard working, team first guy that will give you everything he's got. My only concern about him is whether he'll be quick enough to succeed at the three spot or big enough to succeed at the four. As such, I don't think he's a lock to pay off as a top 2 pick but, I certainly wouldn't count him out (regardless of position).

Steve

You didn't. The Earl Clark comparison came to mind because Williams might be a tweener. The tape I have seen makes me think he is a PF because I too question if he has enough quickness at SF. However, he seems to really be comfortable playing inside. He has excellent moves down low and at 6'9", 250 pounds I see no reason he can not be an excellent NBA PF... if he can learn to embrace that role. He should also be quicker than most PFs giving him an advantage there.

 

[Cheesebeef]

worst case is Williams becomes a pre-knee injury Kenyon Martin and that type of player is worth the #2 pick... but me thinks he's better because he's got better handles and a better outside shot already.

 

[Covert Rain]

I would be stunned if there were NO career starters out of this group unless you mean from day one forward. And if that's all you're saying, well, that's often the case for most players (even those that grow into superstar status). I wouldn't even rule out a franchise level player out of this group although nobody has really stood out enough to justify that projection.

Steve

I didn't say none but I would be surprised is if there was more than 2 guys that turn into franchise players. Seems to me this draft is full of journeyman type players that might play on your team for a long time but most teams drafting in this draft are still going to be looking for starters to fill their rosters next year. The price for moving up in such a shallow draft is too steep IMO. You move up to draft future stars not journeyman.

There are all these trade scenarios with the Suns moving up. However, seriously, if you can't get #1 or #2 why bother? Even at #2, I would be cautious at what I give up. The Suns need to make sure they are not trading away for instance our only legit big man and a future 1st rounder that will more than likely net you a better player then this years draft. Simply saying in this years draft, the price for moving up becomes too high pretty easily.

 

[chickenhead]

1990 #8 Clippers: Bo Kimble, Loyola Marymount

I still don't blame them. Anyone see "Guru of Go" from ESPN's 30 for 30? Loved seeing that old LMU footage. Got choked up.

 

[chickenhead]

As a business, one has to see how hesitant the Suns would be to move Nash. There would be some season ticket cancellations. And they're undoubtedly afraid of alienating the families who make their one or two trips to the arena and drop a few hundred bucks to see Nash. Now, if they got a star in return, that's one thing. But moving him to kick-start the rebuilding process? That'll be lost on a lot of fans. Not saying it's the right way for them to operate, but it's undoubtedly a concern.

 

[devilalum]

As a business, one has to see how hesitant the Suns would be to move Nash. There would be some season ticket cancellations. And they're undoubtedly afraid of alienating the families who make their one or two trips to the arena and drop a few hundred bucks to see Nash. Now, if they got a star in return, that's one thing. But moving him to kick-start the rebuilding process? That'll be lost on a lot of fans. Not saying it's the right way for them to operate, but it's undoubtedly a concern.

There have already been a lot of season ticket cancellations!

 

[AsUdUdE]

as well there damn should be...

With no direction, and the ceiling is hoping for an 8th seed, why in the world should I pay for Season tickets... It is positive reinforcement to Sarver..

I will not spend a DIME on the suns until there is SOMETHING to be excited about... and right now, you could argue they are the most hopeless team in the NBA

Bad teams like the timberwolves have a high pick Rubio coming over Love there and some cap room

Cleveland has 2 top 4 picks and a couple really solid pieces in Valarjo and Hickson

Utah has 2 lottery picks, Favors, Jefferson, Millsap, and a slew of other talented players..

Maybe Toronto..

but really think about the NBA and the Suns, they have no present AND no future.. It is just depressing...

 

[Cheesebeef]

but really think about the NBA and the Suns, they have no present AND no future.. It is just depressing...

the more depressing thing? a lot of fans AND the FO seemingly want to keep it that way by continuing to build around an aging, breaking down PG who's next contract will keep us from having $ flexibility in adding major pieces to the team.

 

[chickenhead]

That's secretly the most important point. We're debating largely whether they should trade him in a draft deal, and will likely continue the debate before the deadline next season. But the least likely scenario of all does seem to be him playing out 2011-2012 and the Suns just not giving him a new contract. How many seasons did Nash say he wanted to play beyond the current contract again? One or two?

 

[Cheesebeef]

That's secretly the most important point. We're debating largely whether they should trade him in a draft deal, and will likely continue the debate before the deadline next season. But the least likely scenario of all does seem to be him playing out 2011-2012 and the Suns just not giving him a new contract. How many seasons did Nash say he wanted to play beyond the current contract again? One or two?

this is my biggest fear. all talk of him being untradable means... with only a year left on his deal means... WE WILL REBUILD AROUND HIM... which will be IMPOSSIBLE.

The only reason this team can point to 2012 as the year we have major cap flexibility is BECAUSE Nash's contract is off the books. if it's back on there, we're basically stuck with the shitshow we have now... just another year older. how the media doesn't call the Suns on the carpet when they talk about this is beyond me.

again, there seems to be zero foresight from most people on this issue. all they look at is NEXT year.

 

[Magnus]

as well there damn should be...

With no direction, and the ceiling is hoping for an 8th seed, why in the world should I pay for Season tickets... It is positive reinforcement to Sarver..

I will not spend a DIME on the suns until there is SOMETHING to be excited about... and right now, you could argue they are the most hopeless team in the NBA

Bad teams like the timberwolves have a high pick Rubio coming over Love there and some cap room

Cleveland has 2 top 4 picks and a couple really solid pieces in Valarjo and Hickson

Utah has 2 lottery picks, Favors, Jefferson, Millsap, and a slew of other talented players..

Maybe Toronto..

but really think about the NBA and the Suns, they have no present AND no future.. It is just depressing...

I'd like to compare the current Suns with the Charlotte Bobcats.


1)-- Suns don't have a superstar on the team. They have an aging all-star, surrounded with average role players.
-Bobcats don't have a single superstar on their team, they have an aging Stephen Jackson. And they've sold their other best player (Wallace). Atleast they understood they need to go in rebuilding mode.



2)--Suns have a rich history and will likely refuse to settle for mediocrity. They need to start rebuilding, and will need a few years to surface again.
-Bobcats have MJ, that means definitely not settling for mediocrity either. They already started rebuilding mode, and I think will try to be relevant the same way as the Suns.


3)Both teams ended 10th in their respective conferences.


4) Bobcats, besides their 9th pick, have another late first rounder, and second round pick, which gives them a bit of an edge over PHX. Still, I'm curious which of the two will break out of mediocrity first.

 

[leclerc]

the more depressing thing? a lot of fans AND the FO seemingly want to keep it that way by continuing to build around an aging, breaking down PG who's next contract will keep us from having $ flexibility in adding major pieces to the team.

Nash is not among the top 30 according to this page. He will make 11 mill next year and after that I would think he'd get around 7-8 mill/year. That's hardly an unfair price considering what he brings to the team, being the face of the franchise, clearly the best player etc.

Yes, he's getting older but he's the best player by far. If the FO wants him back then that's fair. It's their fault and not Nash he simply wants to play, win and have fun. I'd like to rebuild sooner rather than later but to run a business you have to have some sort of income at any given time.

Vinsanity earns 18 mill next year btw. 18...

 

[Covert Rain]

this is my biggest fear. all talk of him being untradable means... with only a year left on his deal means... WE WILL REBUILD AROUND HIM... which will be IMPOSSIBLE.

The only reason this team can point to 2012 as the year we have major cap flexibility is BECAUSE Nash's contract is off the books. if it's back on there, we're basically stuck with the shitshow we have now... just another year older. how the media doesn't call the Suns on the carpet when they talk about this is beyond me.

again, there seems to be zero foresight from most people on this issue. all they look at is NEXT year.

Good point. I don't get the "we can't trade Nash" camp either. Mainly because isn't our end game still to win a title? Unless the Suns have some major trade in the works to retool one more time to take a run....I ask again...why keep Nash if someone really wants him and gives us a good deal?

 

[SirStefan32]

Good point. I don't get the "we can't trade Nash" camp either. Mainly because isn't our end game still to win a title? Unless the Suns have some major trade in the works to retool one more time to take a run....I ask again...why keep Nash if someone really wants him and gives us a good deal?

My guess is that you do it to display loyalty. Next year, when you are trying to recruit Paul or Williams, they will know that you treated your former star with respect, and chances are that you will treat them with the same respect and that you'll show them the same loyalty you showed Nash.

I am not saying it's the right approach. I simply don't know. I am not sure what I would do in the same situation, but I understand the "Don't trade Nash" approach.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Nash is not among the top 30 according to this page. He will make 11 mill next year and after that I would think he'd get around 7-8 mill/year. That's hardly an unfair price considering what he brings to the team, being the face of the franchise, clearly the best player etc.

that 7-8 million dollars a year will be a HUGE dent in what this team will need to spend on YOUNG talent to rebuild around, especially considering that the cap will undoubtedly go down after the league gets done kicking the NBAPA's ass in the upcoming lock-out.

Yes, he's getting older but he's the best player by far.

he's the best player by far... on a team that doesn't make the playoffs. who cares?

If the FO wants him back then that's fair. It's their fault and not Nash he simply wants to play, win and have fun.

it is their fault, but the idea that he's going to "win and have fun" is nice to think about but in reality, it isn't going to happen. they're going to lose and that's not fun, I don't care what style you're playing. Again, without Amare the last two years, we're a lottery team. that isn't going to change as we continue to just get OLDER.

 

[slinslin]

Something I dreamed up

Phoenix gets
#2 Derrick Williams
Brendan Jennings
Drew Gooden
#20

Minnesota gets
Marcin Gortat
#10

Milwaukee gets
Johnny Flynn
Hakim Warrick
#13

Trade Nash/Carter to get Iguodala and picks.

Jennings/Iggy/Williams/Frye/Darko

Wildcat lineup.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Something I dreamed up

Phoenix gets
#2 Derrick Williams
Brendan Jennings
Drew Gooden
#20

Minnesota gets
Marcin Gortat
#10

Milwaukee gets
Johnny Flynn
Hakim Warrick
#13

Trade Nash/Carter to get Iguodala and picks.

Jennings/Iggy/Williams/Frye/Darko

Wildcat lineup.

WHY THE **** WOULD MILWAUKEE DO THAT?!

 

[Superbone]

Quit dreaming up ways to get rid of Gortat. Ain't happening.

 

[Folster]

he's the best player by far... on a team that doesn't make the playoffs. who cares?

Ding, ding, ding.

 

[slinslin]

WHY THE **** WOULD MILWAUKEE DO THAT?!

Did u check Drew Goodens contract? His contract is worse than Josh Childress, far worse than Warrick.

Basically they ditch Gooden for a much lesser contract, swap Jennings for Flynn who both had disappointing seasons and trade down from #10 to #13.

 

[SirStefan32]

Quit dreaming up ways to get rid of Gortat. Ain't happening.

Exactly!

 

[Folster]

WHY THE **** WOULD MILWAUKEE DO THAT?!

That's why trades are better presented in the following format.

Milwaukee out: Brandon Jennings, Drew Gooden, #10
Milwaukee in: Johnny Flynn, Hakim Warrick, #13

 

[Cheesebeef]

Did u check Drew Goodens contract? His contract is worse than Josh Childress, far worse than Warrick.

Basically they ditch Gooden for a much lesser contract, swap Jennings for Flynn who both had disappointing seasons and trade down from #10 to #13.

yeah, but jennings still averaged 16 and 5 this year in his disappointing season compared to Flynn who was just flat out pathetic with 5 and 3 in his disappointing season. not to mention that jennings actually made an impact as a rookie, helping Milwaukee get to the playoffs while flynn led minnesota straight to the crapper. there's no comparing the two.

sorry, but milwaukee ain't touching that deal. you don't trade the youngest piece of your team and one the guys they're building around just to get rid of a bad contract... not to mention ALSO trading down in a weak draft... especially if they have to take a somewhat bad contract back in return.