The Kyler Murray is mediocre thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
22,713
Reaction score
41,513
Location
UK
I honestly don't know why there is a "Kyler Murray appreciation" thread that's being kept alive to get people here banned for speaking the truth. It's a discussion board, a thread where a handful of people lie to themselves to feel better serves no purpose.

The NFL has Kyler's ticket. You stop him running by keeping contain and not selling out on the pass rush, you stack the box to stop the run, and you make him throw against man coverage. Every loss has been that game plan, less so the Bills who played a bunch of man but let their edges off the leash, but from the Lions showed the rest of the league what to do and since then only the Niners have been arrogant enough not to do the same.

It's obvious now that teams fear his legs more than his arm from the way they are playing him.

I can only assume that Petzing knows it too because in big losses that we have been behind the whole/most of the game Kyler has 162, 207, 142 and 215 yards passing. This is not normal for a team down multiple scores. Even against the Niners, a game the defense won for us, he only threw for 195 and about 85 yards in a 2nd half we were down 10 or more.

Did we lose against the Packers because of Kyler? No. Was he good? No.

He's not a QB that lifts the offense unless he can get out and run. He's a top 5 running QB. It's about 20th as a passer. He's bottom 10 in both passing accuracy and turnover worthy throws.
 

Minski

Hall of Famer
Joined
Aug 25, 2017
Posts
2,113
Reaction score
3,948
Location
Dubai, UAE
I'm sorry Brit I am not with you on this one. Your agenda is apparent in the title of this thread, you chose mediocre instead of average... with all those extra connotations.
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
38,612
Reaction score
30,324
Location
Gilbert, AZ
One college stat that I find interesting is pass % on first down. Online scouts use it as a shorthand for how much playcallers trust the QB to keep the offense on schedule.

It’s something I’ve been meaning to look up.
 

Brian in Mesa

Advocatus Diaboli
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
73,143
Reaction score
25,032
Location
Killjoy Central
He's not a QB that lifts the offense unless he can get out and run. He's a top 5 running QB. It's about 20th as a passer. He's bottom 10 in both passing accuracy and turnover worthy throws.
He's definitely the top QB when it comes to pouting. Especially since Cam Newton has essentially retired.
 

Harry

ASFN Consultant and Senior Writer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Posts
12,277
Reaction score
26,908
Location
Orlando, FL
Murray is certainly a conundrum. He might be the best athlete playing QB. I pointed out how lacking in depth the O-line was when the season started. Now 2 of those guys are starting. I don’t think Brown has been consistent at RG. Does Murray have confidence he’ll have time to throw when passes are called? Also I haven’t been impressed with the play design fitting Murray’s skillset. I haven’t seen much creativity in play design, either runs or passes. I would agree that Murray has not developed many of the advanced QB skills , like ball placement. For example when attacking zones he doesn’t seem to lead receivers into gaps. I’d like to see Murray rolling out more if only to threaten the run and possibly move LBs & Ss out of position. Some 2 man games with the TE would at least pressure the defense. The run game seems to be hand the ball to Connor so he can knock people down. How about using 2 backs letting Connor blast a hole Benson can speed through. Getting him on the second level opens up breakaway possibilities. I’m just saying it can’t all rest on Murray. Get a real O-line, some creative plays and I could better asess Murray.
 

DaHilg

Hall of Famer
Joined
May 12, 2021
Posts
1,578
Reaction score
2,291
Location
Boston
Murray is certainly a conundrum. He might be the best athlete playing QB. I pointed out how lacking in depth the O-line was when the season started. Now 2 of those guys are starting. I don’t think Brown has been consistent at RG. Does Murray have confidence he’ll have time to throw when passes are called? Also I haven’t been impressed with the play design fitting Murray’s skillset. I haven’t seen much creativity in play design, either runs or passes. I would agree that Murray has not developed many of the advanced QB skills , like ball placement. For example when attacking zones he doesn’t seem to lead receivers into gaps. I’d like to see Murray rolling out more if only to threaten the run and possibly move LBs & Ss out of position. Some 2 man games with the TE would at least pressure the defense. The run game seems to be hand the ball to Connor so he can knock people down. How about using 2 backs letting Connor blast a hole Benson can speed through. Getting him on the second level opens up breakaway possibilities. I’m just saying it can’t all rest on Murray. Get a real O-line, some creative plays and I could better asess Murray.
Excellent post Harry.. these statements hold a lot of water for those actually watching the game objectively
 

Chopper0080

2021 - Prove It
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
28,755
Reaction score
41,753
Location
Colorado
Murray is certainly a conundrum. He might be the best athlete playing QB. I pointed out how lacking in depth the O-line was when the season started. Now 2 of those guys are starting. I don’t think Brown has been consistent at RG. Does Murray have confidence he’ll have time to throw when passes are called? Also I haven’t been impressed with the play design fitting Murray’s skillset. I haven’t seen much creativity in play design, either runs or passes. I would agree that Murray has not developed many of the advanced QB skills , like ball placement. For example when attacking zones he doesn’t seem to lead receivers into gaps. I’d like to see Murray rolling out more if only to threaten the run and possibly move LBs & Ss out of position. Some 2 man games with the TE would at least pressure the defense. The run game seems to be hand the ball to Connor so he can knock people down. How about using 2 backs letting Connor blast a hole Benson can speed through. Getting him on the second level opens up breakaway possibilities. I’m just saying it can’t all rest on Murray. Get a real O-line, some creative plays and I could better asess Murray.
This offense isn't built around Kyler, it is built around Conner. The playing calling is built around Conner, especially early. I think this is apparent.
 

SoonerLou

ASFN Addict
Joined
Sep 15, 2019
Posts
8,235
Reaction score
12,475
Location
St Louis, MO
This offense isn't built around Kyler, it is built around Conner. The playing calling is built around Conner, especially early. I think this is apparent.
Its why the end of last season was fools gold. Conner looked like the 2nd best RB in the league to end the year. He made plays when there were no running lanes. We're reliant on Conner playing at an elite level.

I know people don't like the PHNX guys. However, they were told in the spring by multiple people in the building that they view Wrs as more of a luxury. Strong run game/physical Oline the foundation. Which is understandable but there is a way to maximize both.
 

Proteus

ASFN Icon
Joined
Nov 26, 2007
Posts
12,865
Reaction score
5,589
Its why the end of last season was fools gold. Conner looked like the 2nd best RB in the league to end the year. He made plays when there were no running lanes. We're reliant on Conner playing at an elite level.

I know people don't like the PHNX guys. However, they were told in the spring by multiple people in the building that they view Wrs as more of a luxury. Strong run game/physical Oline the foundation. Which is understandable but there is a way to maximize both.
If wide receivers are more of a luxury, then why the heck did we draft one at #4 then?
 
OP
OP
BritCard

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
22,713
Reaction score
41,513
Location
UK
I'm sorry Brit I am not with you on this one. Your agenda is apparent in the title of this thread, you chose mediocre instead of average... with all those extra connotations.

Mediocre means "of moderate or low quality, value, ability, or performance".

Moderate to low performance is what we are getting. You take away Kyler's legs and all his passing stats, both currently and over his career, are below average.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

Not So Skeptical
Joined
Aug 26, 2012
Posts
10,190
Reaction score
6,664
Mediocre means "of moderate or low quality, value, ability, or performance".

Moderate to low performance is what we are getting. You take away Kyler's legs and all his passing stats, both currently and over his career, are below average.
Sure, but why would you take away what he does with his legs? That is part of what he brings to the offense.
 

Shane

Comin for you!
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
69,455
Reaction score
40,030
Location
Las Vegas
Sure, but why would you take away what he does with his legs? That is part of what he brings to the offense.
The ability to run is nice. But the main purpose/job of a QB is to deliver the ball through the air. That extra stuff is just a bonus if they have that ability. Nice to have but still not what their primary purpose on the field is.
 

ASUCHRIS

ONE HEART BEAT!!!
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Posts
16,662
Reaction score
14,987
The ability to run is nice. But the main purpose/job of a QB is to deliver the ball through the air. That extra stuff is just a bonus if they have that ability. Nice to have but still not what their primary purpose on the field is.
Less useful as well when you have games where he barely runs at all.
 

Shane

Comin for you!
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
69,455
Reaction score
40,030
Location
Las Vegas
Mediocre means "of moderate or low quality, value, ability, or performance".

Moderate to low performance is what we are getting. You take away Kyler's legs and all his passing stats, both currently and over his career, are below average.
Is he below average? I’m not so sure. A career passer rating of 92 and little better than 2-1 int/TD ratio. Career YPA of 7.0

He is probably right in the average category IMO as opposed to below average. Or mediocre. Sure he has some games like that but overall I think that’s probably a little hyperbolic. And we all know I’m a Kyler critic. Just because I don’t think we are getting enough return on the teams investment. IE draft status and salary he commands.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

Not So Skeptical
Joined
Aug 26, 2012
Posts
10,190
Reaction score
6,664
The ability to run is nice. But the main purpose/job of a QB is to deliver the ball through the air. That extra stuff is just a bonus if they have that ability. Nice to have but still not what their primary purpose on the field is.
The point is that running is part of his skill set and teams have to adjust to account for it. We only have to go back one week to see his legs playing a huge role in us beating a rival with a 50 yard TD and a huge 1st down late in the game. Taking away that part of his game to make a point of how good he is overall is disingenuous at best.
 

Shane

Comin for you!
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
69,455
Reaction score
40,030
Location
Las Vegas
The point is that running is part of his skill set and teams have to adjust to account for it. We only have to go back one week to see his legs playing a huge role in us beating a rival with a 50 yard TD and a huge 1st down late in the game. Taking away that part of his game to make a point of how good he is overall is disingenuous at best.
Again nice to have in spurts but where was that ability yesterday? When it’s taken away and used so little it matters not.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

Not So Skeptical
Joined
Aug 26, 2012
Posts
10,190
Reaction score
6,664
Again nice to have in spurts but where was that ability yesterday? When it’s taken away and used so little it matters not.
So I suppose all of the best pocket passers are great from the pocket in every game? Kyler has been contained on the ground in just 2 of 6 games thus far. Burrow has the best passer rating in the NFL, but has had a couple pretty poor passing games. Sometimes the opposing defense has the right personnel and scheme to take away your game. Doesn't mean that part of your game must not matter.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top