The Kyler Murray is mediocre thread

[Chopper0080]

Murray is a top 15 QB with very little talent elsewhere on the team.

We can disagree about the offense. The defensive talent is absolutely the anchor for this team.

 

[SoonerLou]

Its why the end of last season was fools gold. Conner looked like the 2nd best RB in the league to end the year. He made plays when there were no running lanes. We're reliant on Conner playing at an elite level.

I know people don't like the PHNX guys. However, they were told in the spring by multiple people in the building that they view Wrs as more of a luxury. Strong run game/physical Oline the foundation. Which is understandable but there is a way to maximize both.

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[BritCard]

I would agree that Murray has not developed many of the advanced QB skills , like ball placement. For example when attacking zones he doesn’t seem to lead receivers into gaps.

The Wilson pass on 3rd down that was knocked out yesterday, that ball was behind him. If you watch the EZ angle he has to reach back to catch it which puts it right there for the DB to knock out. Had it been in front of him, as it should be, it would have been protected.

Frankly Harry I'm tired of all the "Murray will be great when..." arguments. The O line is more than fine (he's 24th in pressured throws), even with the injuries it's still better than most he has had. If you gave MHJ, McBride and Wilson to anyone from Mahomes through to Dak Prescott they would have more yards.

I'm not asking for Kyler to be superman. Just not 20th in the league in YPA, 21st in YPC and 23rd in YPG.

Yes, his passer rating looks good and his completion percentage is good but it's such a short, basic passing game. All the same issues are there that always were, they are just largely being managed out of his game until we find ourselves 2 scores down and need them.

People talk about Kyler as a dynamic QB because he can run, that's not dynamic. A dynamic QB is a guy that can be successful against zone and man, a guy that can read and predict what you are doing defensively, a guy that can get his highly touted "generational" wide receiver not look like Kelvin Benjamin.

Heck, I'd be thrilled if he was just Baker Mayfield or Jared Goff.

 

[BritCard]

This offense isn't built around Kyler, it is built around Conner. The playing calling is built around Conner, especially early. I think this is apparent.

It's very apparent, and you have to ask, which teams usually build their offense around their running back? The answer in all examples I can think of, are ones that don't trust their QB to throw the ball.

 

[BritCard]

Its why the end of last season was fools gold. Conner looked like the 2nd best RB in the league to end the year. He made plays when there were no running lanes. We're reliant on Conner playing at an elite level.

I know people don't like the PHNX guys. However, they were told in the spring by multiple people in the building that they view Wrs as more of a luxury. Strong run game/physical Oline the foundation. Which is understandable but there is a way to maximize both.

There absolutely needs to be an alternative. I'm happy for the running game to be the foundation and build the passing game off that. But all other teams have a plan B for when the run doesn't work, or when they need to abandon it down 2 scores. We don't.

The only options I can think to explain that is this coaching staff think they can discard decades of NFL orthodoxy, or they know their QB has limitations with his passing and are managing it accordingly. I don't think there is a sensible 3rd option.

 

[BritCard]

Sure, but why would you take away what he does with his legs? That is part of what he brings to the offense.

Why? Because QB's are there to pass. The legs are a luxury extra. ar easier to stop him running than passing, as GB did yesterday. The Lions, Commanders and GB all defended him the exact same way.

If being able to run was all that mattered we could put Justin Fields at QB for a fraction of the money. And in all honesty, Fields could do exactly what Kyler is doing to the exact same level.

 

[BritCard]

Murray is a top 15 QB with very little talent elsewhere on the team.

I mean, he might be top 15, if he is 15. Which isn't good, because there are a lot of bad QB's in the league right now.

 

[BritCard]

The point is that running is part of his skill set and teams have to adjust to account for it. We only have to go back one week to see his legs playing a huge role in us beating a rival with a 50 yard TD and a huge 1st down late in the game. Taking away that part of his game to make a point of how good he is overall is disingenuous at best.

If would be good if teams had to adjust for it so that we can gash them in the passing game. But he can't.

You just contain him and play man coverage. You do that and you're going to limit this offense to sub 20 points 99 times out of 100.

 

[BritCard]

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This team is built on Conner. Both on the field and off. Far more so than it's built on Kyler. I don't see any chance of them trading him.

 

[HairZach]

Kyler has yet to convert a 3rd and long this season. The only QB in the NFL that hasn't. This is where his passive approach shift kills me.

We did convert 4th and 12 vs. the Commanders

 

[kerouac9]

I mean, he might be top 15, if he is 15. Which isn't good, because there are a lot of bad QB's in the league right now.

I think it's fair to say he's in the middle third of QBs. Saying he's "top 15" clumps him in with the elite group of passers, and I don't think he belongs there. That's what causes the fights.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Why? Because QB's are there to pass. The legs are a luxury extra. ar easier to stop him running than passing, as GB did yesterday. The Lions, Commanders and GB all defended him the exact same way.

If being able to run was all that mattered we could put Justin Fields at QB for a fraction of the money. And in all honesty, Fields could do exactly what Kyler is doing to the exact same level.

Actually no. They are there to orchestrate the offense and that includes the plays they make with their feet. Kyler is arguably a top 10 QB when you include what he does with his feet and has top 11 or so passing stats alone.

The argument then becomes, how good is the talent that he has to work with? Because if he is leading a subpar offensive roster to fairly average numbers than it likely means he isn't a problem. If you believe the talent is average to above average than he would indeed be underperforming. Personally, I think the talent is below average and with better talent he would look quite a bit better.

 

[kerouac9]

Kyler is arguably a top 10 QB when you include what he does with his feet and has top 11 or so passing stats alone.

You can make this argument but you’d be wrong

 

[football karma]

intractable problems usually are the result of a few things being wrong rather than just one thing

all these things can be true at the same time:

Kyler is a QB who cannot offset deficiencies around him.
As the offensive line lost starters, the performance has gone down
the offensive scheme is very conservative
the offensive coaching is very risk averse -- i.e. telling Kyler to avoid INTs

 

[Shane]

intractable problems usually are the result of a few things being wrong rather than just one thing

all these things can be true at the same time:

Kyler is a QB who cannot offset deficiencies around him.
As the offensive line lost starters, the performance has gone down
the offensive scheme is very conservative
the offensive coaching is very risk averse -- i.e. telling Kyler to avoid INTs

Great post

 

[juza76]

H

 

[Brian in Mesa]

H

Well said.

 

[Chopper0080]

We did convert 4th and 12 vs. the Commanders

I am aware. The stat just accounted for 3rd and longs, not any 4th down.

 

[PlayerHater]

Kyler is currently just a highlight reel QB. He will have a few plays where he looks insanely talented that will be clipped for views but the majority of his QB play is very average. Kyler needs to run to be successful. He is not talented enough as a pocket passer to win games. Without his 82 yards of rushing vs the Niners they lose that game. If the coaching staff is not going to design the offense around his mobility and move him around, this team will continue to struggle. I don't think this coaching staff is capable of designing and executing a creative offense.

 

[SoonerLou]

Kyler is currently just a highlight reel QB. He will have a few plays where he looks insanely talented that will be clipped for views but the majority of his QB play is very average. Kyler needs to run to be successful. He is not talented enough as a pocket passer to win games. Without his 82 yards of rushing vs the Niners they lose that game. If the coaching staff is not going to design the offense around his mobility and move him around, this team will continue to struggle. I don't think this coaching staff is capable of designing and executing a creative offense.

I'm not saying you're wrong. It's just surprising its come to this when he averaged 270 yards (286 w/healthy DHOP) a game with a washed AJ Green just 3 years ago.

 

[Chopper0080]

I'm not saying you're wrong. It's just surprising its come to this when he averaged 270 yards (286 w/healthy DHOP) a game with a washed AJ Green just 3 years ago.

The 2021 Green Bay game changed Kyler Murray for whatever reason. Since that game, he has been a totally different QB.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm not saying you're wrong. It's just surprising its come to this when he averaged 270 yards (286 w/healthy DHOP) a game with a washed AJ Green just 3 years ago.

That QB is so far from who Kyler is now. It’s bewildering.

Also, want to make a point about why people focus so much on the missed opportunities… Marv uncovered, Wilson wide open on the sideline airmailed out of bounds, Weaver wide open for a TD. I think those plays feel so huge because he’s NOT making a bunch of other plays to compensate for missing those.

The best guys in the game have those misses too, but they are such elite TD makers, that those plays don’t stand out.

Right now, Kyler’s on lace for 25 total TDs and 3900 yards combined. Folks… those are Matt Cassel/Alex Smith/weak Kirk Cousins output.