The Phx Suns have a real center

[BC867]

Most everything I read in here suggests we are going to have a rough time in the playoffs if we get there.

For the next five years?

With a legitimate Power Forward (whether Frye can grow into it or we get another) and a backup Point Guard who can sustain the system set up for Nash, I should hope that it wouldn't take five years.

With the addition of Gortat and the hopeful growth of Lopez as backup . . . and with the possible growth of Frye at PF . . . the Suns have turned the corner in moving toward being an elite team.

That is a major change in direction. Rough time in the playoffs this year if we get there? Yup. For the next five years? I don't think so.

 

[desertdawg]

For the next five years?

I was talking about the playoff run for this year, I think we will make it this year with Carter and Gortat gelling, probably get bounced in the first round. Better than not making it, IMO, it shows the team where they want to go.

Next 5 years? Bring in the power forward of our dreams asap. I figure Nash has about 5 good ones left. Our other pieces are there or semi-there. Lakers look like the are starting to fade away, Coach Phil is going to go teach puppies yoga and Artest should do something super crazy pretty soon.
After the Lakers, it's wide open if we get a power forward. But with Nash getting up there, we are on the clock. Go Suns

 

[BC867]

b

Whether Gortat or Lopez starts has precisely zero impact on whether the Suns can win a title in the next five years. They can't. I don't know why some people have such trouble accepting that.

Eric, you have me curious. Are you the same Eric Thomas Lindholm of Aguora, CA, who has been a licensed attorney in California for the past 33 years and is the middle of three generations of Californians?

That would explain your comments about some people having such trouble accepting that the Suns can't win a title in the next five years. It all makes sense now.

There is only one response to that. BEAT L.A. BEAT L.A.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Eric, you have me curious. Are you the same Eric Thomas Lindholm of Aguora, CA, who has been a licensed attorney in California for the past 33 years and is the middle of three generations of Californians?

That would explain your comments about some people having such trouble accepting that the Suns can't win a title in the next five years. It all makes sense now.

There is only one response to that. BEAT L.A. BEAT L.A.

whoa. you can call out e for his opinions, but i would NOT call him out as not being a suns fan. he is definitely that.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Who is saying we will win a championship if we start Gortat over Lopez?
Most everything I read in here suggests we are going to have a rough time in the playoffs if we get there. Now that the trade is turning out to be very good for the Suns, the playoffs look like a real possibility right now. BTW I accept it every year when the Suns don't win a title.

Lopez defenders are more up in arms than the Gortat lovers.
Gortat will get his minutes because he is the better player, and he will start soon enough. I don't know who will still be on the team in 5 years, probably just Nash.
Nobody is knocking Lopez, just keeping the team in mind. Gortat will bring the double double with a spark. Lopez has been looking better, but it is kinda sad because Gortat goes in and goes off.
Lopez is young, (and probably still growing from the way he runs) and has plenty of time to mature....the way Gortat has.

It's ok, we have a center and we can use him. I have no trouble accepting that. We are no where near a title, accepted. Gortat makes this team watchable again with out it hurting, I'll accept that all day, Nash will too.

I think you have a better chance of being elected President in a couple of years than you have of supporting that statement. Especially since you'd have to take people like me completely out of the equation. I'm not now nor have I ever been a Lopez supporter. I'm a Phoenix Suns supporter and until Gentry proves otherwise I'm inclined to grant him the benefit of the doubt.

I was adamantly opposed to drafting Lopez and was one of the last to begrudgingly grant that he was better than I expected and one of the first to throw up my hands in disgust on his play this season. I fall in the "I could care less who starts as long as Gortat gets the majority of the minutes" camp and I'm pretty sure you'll find a lot more of us than you will of the "Lopez supporter" variety. As far as I'm concerned, they could put Lopez on the next space shuttle for a one way trip to anywhere else and it wouldn't bother me a bit.

The only support I throw Robin's way is this: we are much better off if he learns how to be an effective player in this league. If we were really a contender I'd just cut the guy but we have such a dearth of good young talent that it makes sense to take every reasonable step in an effort to develop a fairly mobile 7 footer. I think this attempt is destined for failure but we have little choice but to try it anyway.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

Eric, you have me curious. Are you the same Eric Thomas Lindholm of Aguora, CA, who has been a licensed attorney in California for the past 33 years and is the middle of three generations of Californians?

That would explain your comments about some people having such trouble accepting that the Suns can't win a title in the next five years. It all makes sense now.

There is only one response to that. BEAT L.A. BEAT L.A.

You might want to look around a little. There are a lot of us Suns fans residing in California.

Steve

 

[Chaplin]

Eric, you have me curious. Are you the same Eric Thomas Lindholm of Aguora, CA, who has been a licensed attorney in California for the past 33 years and is the middle of three generations of Californians?

That would explain your comments about some people having such trouble accepting that the Suns can't win a title in the next five years. It all makes sense now.

There is only one response to that. BEAT L.A. BEAT L.A.

Eric is a teacher, not a lawyer, as far as I know.

 

[atvision]

Hammer Time freestyle dunk :

youtube.com/watch?v=5uWAqGncV7s

 

[desertdawg]

Hammer Time freestyle dunk :

youtube.com/watch?v=5uWAqGncV7s

That was great. I tried to click on yours but I looked it up. Nice find amigo.
The "dunk" is at 40 seconds in.

 

[elindholm]

I am a college professor who grew up in Mesa and Tempe and started following the Suns carefully around 1980. I say the Suns can't win a title in five years because it's true. If they play their cards right, they can be building toward one in five years, but actually winning one would take longer, even in a best-case scenario. The roster (especially once Nash and Hill retire) is nowhere near talented enough to contend, and the prospects for immediate help through free agency or the draft are weak. They have as much potential to get there as any other non-marquee team (ownership notwithstanding), but it's a long journey.

 

[BC867]

whoa. you can call out e for his opinions, but i would NOT call him out as not being a suns fan. he is definitely that.

Predicting that the Suns can't win a title in the next five years is indeed an opinion.

Adding that some people have such trouble accepting that is an affront -- an action or remark that causes outrage or offense.

Coming from Laker Land and rubbing our noses in it is more of an insult. I haven't seen any other of our Cali posters take that take approach.

That is what I was referring to.

 

[sunsfan88]

Did you guys see the layup where he knocked down to Bucks players like a bowling pin?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Predicting that the Suns can't win a title in the next five years is indeed an opinion.

Adding that some people have such trouble accepting that is an affront -- an action or remark that causes outrage or offense.

Coming from Laker Land and rubbing our noses in it is more of an insult. I haven't seen any other of our Cali posters take that take approach.

That is what I was referring to.

you're way too sensitive then. i'll say it as definitively as e, but i'm not far off his mark on that count. and i live in the OC. that said, that certainly doesn't erase the cumulative 19 years i spent growing up in phx-pv area, or all the season tickets i owned, or all the legal work i did for the suns and the arena, or the fact that i bleed orange and purple, or the fact that i invented DB!!!

 

[Covert Rain]

I think if the Suns play their cards right, hold onto Gortat and can somehow make some savvy moves we absolutely could. One thing I have learned about the NBA is there are many WTF type moves by teams either for salary reasons or other reasons. It's possible. Before some of the major trades the Suns made in the last decade or so, fans were not very optimistic and then a trade happened.

Just don't buy it's impossible. My only reservation is who is running this organization. That would be the biggest deterrent to me.

 

[Cheesebeef]

you're way too sensitive then. i'll say it as definitively as e, but i'm not far off his mark on that count. and i live in the OC. that said, that certainly doesn't erase the cumulative 19 years i spent growing up in phx-pv area, or all the season tickets i owned, or all the legal work i did for the suns and the arena, or the fact that i bleed orange and purple, or the fact that i invented DB!!!

i invented DB.

but agree with everything else. questioning elindholm as a suns fan would be as ludicrous as questioning andrew as a shaq fan.

 

[Errntknght]

Ouchie,

i live in the OC

What does 'the OC' mean... I've heard it before and wondered

 

[Cheesebeef]

Ouchie,

What does 'the OC' mean... I've heard it before and wondered

orange county

 

[Errntknght]

leclerc,

PS: I wish you'd get a new avatar soon, AzSteve.

+1

 

[AzStevenCal]

PS: I wish you'd get a new avatar soon, AzSteve.

Blame it on Arizona's Finest. I was about to change my avatar when I ended up in a wager over the Suns. He maintains the Suns will finish top 5 and we bet our avatars on it. I'm tired of this avatar but I figure I have to keep it for the life of the bet. I'd hate to find the perfect picture only to lose it to him if the Suns get hot.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

Anyone who says the Suns can't win a championship in the next five years needs to examine their thinking. I've found few things in life are exact. There are not any great teams out there that are unbeatable in a playoff series.

 

[elindholm]

Anyone who says the Suns can't win a championship in the next five years needs to examine their thinking. I've found few things in life are exact. There are not any great teams out there that are unbeatable in a playoff series.

Well, I meant within the reasonable realm of possibility, of course. The top 75 players in the league could all suffer career-ending injuries spontaneously, or the league could declare bankruptcy and they'd all flee to Europe, or Bill Gates could buy the team and figure out that all you really need is to bribe the officials for $10,000,000 per game, or whatever.

But barring something truly bizarre, there is simply no remotely plausible scenario in which the Suns win a title within the next five years. Five years is a very short period of time in terms of how power shifts within the league. Look at the "up and coming" teams like the Thunder or the Hawks (allegedly), and then look at how many of those pieces were already in place five years ago. You might be surprised by how long they have already been working toward the goal. If you want to point to the teams that got there by trade, mainly the Heat and Celtics -- obviously the Lakers are in a unique category -- you have to acknowledge that they already had some genuinely attractive trade pieces: the Heat, good young players in Odom and Butler; the Celtics, a star young talent and a high draft pick.

We'd have to argue about what constitutes remote plausibility, but I'm comfortable saying that the probability of the Suns winning a championship in the next five years cannot be higher than 1 in 1000, and if there were a way to bet on it that was worth my time, I'd do it without hesitation. I'm not happy about it, of course, but I've learned that I can avoid cut down on my long-term unhappiness by not indulging fantasies.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Well, I meant within the reasonable realm of possibility, of course. The top 75 players in the league could all suffer career-ending injuries spontaneously, or the league could declare bankruptcy and they'd all flee to Europe, or Bill Gates could buy the team and figure out that all you really need is to bribe the officials for $10,000,000 per game, or whatever.

But barring something truly bizarre, there is simply no remotely plausible scenario in which the Suns win a title within the next five years. Five years is a very short period of time in terms of how power shifts within the league. Look at the "up and coming" teams like the Thunder or the Hawks (allegedly), and then look at how many of those pieces were already in place five years ago. You might be surprised by how long they have already been working toward the goal. If you want to point to the teams that got there by trade, mainly the Heat and Celtics -- obviously the Lakers are in a unique category -- you have to acknowledge that they already had some genuinely attractive trade pieces: the Heat, good young players in Odom and Butler; the Celtics, a star young talent and a high draft pick.

We'd have to argue about what constitutes remote plausibility, but I'm comfortable saying that the probability of the Suns winning a championship in the next five years cannot be higher than 1 in 1000, and if there were a way to bet on it that was worth my time, I'd do it without hesitation. I'm not happy about it, of course, but I've learned that I can avoid cut down on my long-term unhappiness by not indulging fantasies.

I think it's highly unlikely that we'll win a championship in the next 5 years. However, if somehow we were able to bring in a quality power forward this season and if we could do that without disrupting our core (give away Warrick, Childress and a pick or two) and if we could stay healthy and if we could keep Carter motivated I think we'd have a remote chance this season. If it doesn't happen this year, I think the odds get even longer next season and beyond for the next several years. But I'm a fan, I'm going to cling to that remote possibility.

Steve

 

[BC867]

Eric and Steve, I see your points. And I certainly wouldn't predict an NBA championship this year, even if we added a solid PF and backup PG.

But I truly believe that, despite how dysfunctional this team was at the start of the season, we are just a couple of steps away from being a contender, once the pieces are in place and the chemistry has a chance to gel.

At this time, we are 10th in the West, 2 games out of playoff contention.

If we can add the missing pieces, while Nash is still producing his magic, I see us moving up. Even with the tandem of Gortat/Lopez at C and Frye/Warrick at PF, I see us moving up.

If Nash were to decline or be gone, and have to be replaced with a more conventional PG, I don't see that taking five years, even if we have to go outside the organization to do it (which it looks like we will).

And, as you said Steve, I'm going to enjoy clinging to that remote possibility.

Hey guys, you have to understand, even though 70 is the new 55, I'm going to turn it in a couple of weeks. I may not look it, I may not feel it, but I'm not going to cave in to this five-year plan.

 

[chickenhead]

I'm not going to predict a championship within 5 years because we have exactly 0 championships from the contending teams that have taken the floor in Phoenix.

However--it is possible. If we land a top PF, if Gortat emerges as a top center in the conference, if Nash is spelled by a quality PG (be that Dragic or someone else) or is replaced by an all-star PG.

It's not that it'll be any easier for the Suns to make adjustments than other teams--and in some cases harder--but other teams face adjustments, too. This is supposed to be Jackson's last year in LA (Kobe hasn't won a title without him), the Spurs window will eventually close (though like the Braves of the 90s/00s, I won't call it closed until it actually is). Denver may lose Carmelo, Dallas will need to replace Kidd and later Dirk, New Orleans may lose Paul, etc.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'm not going to predict a championship within 5 years because we have exactly 0 championships from the contending teams that have taken the floor in Phoenix.

However--it is possible. If we land a top PF, if Gortat emerges as a top center in the conference, if Nash is spelled by a quality PG (be that Dragic or someone else) or is replaced by an all-star PG.

It's not that it'll be any easier for the Suns to make adjustments than other teams--and in some cases harder--but other teams face adjustments, too. This is supposed to be Jackson's last year in LA (Kobe hasn't won a title without him), the Spurs window will eventually close (though like the Braves of the 90s/00s, I won't call it closed until it actually is). Denver may lose Carmelo, Dallas will need to replace Kidd and later Dirk, New Orleans may lose Paul, etc.

Here is what has to happen:

1. Nash needs to continue to be able to play at a high level and without injury. This is not likely. Nash just cannot have 5 years of high level play left.
2. We need a young pg that is nearly star quality to back up Nash. This player has to be Nash's successor and be clearly capable of running a championship caliber NBA team.
3. We need a superstar caliber player at the 2 or 3. This player must be a prolific scorer and at least a mid-level defender. This needs to be a young Vince Carter/Tracy McGrady/Paul Pierce/type. Oddly enough, this team is packed full of wing players, yet a wing player might be our biggest need. We have too many good wing players, but we do not have a star wing player.
4. If we have the other two, with development, Frye could be a starting pf. He needs to continue to improve his D, consistently rebound, and stretch the floor with his shooting. If not, we need an upgrade at this position.
5. If Gortat can play like he has in the last 5 games or so, on an extremely consistent basis, then all we need is an improved backup c. Frye could do it, but then we need another pf. Lopez has to improve significantly in order to be a contributing backup on a championship team.
6. We need to add quality depth on the bench. What we have now is good, but we need more intense dirt worker types, and less aspiring starter types. Last year's bench is the idea.
7. We need an extremely healthy year.
8. We need a lot of luck.

With all this said, I would focus on point guard and trying to find a scoring wing player in the draft. I would use free agency to look for a big guy.