The Phx Suns have a real center

[Mainstreet]

Yeah, that's why John Havlicek and Manu Ginobili both quit playing basketball. They were so enraged by having to come off the bench for significant portiions of their careers. Could you imagine if either of them had to put up with being the backup for a whole month or two? I get what you guys are saying. I agree he's the better player but I think you're making way too much of it.

How come none of you (that are bothered by this) can accept that Gentry might have a legit reason for starting Lopez right now? I don't know what that reason is or if it's even a good one but I find it amazing that it's not even being considered. Gentry has access to a lot more information than we do and for some reason he keeps starting Robin. Maybe you think the Coach really is a complete moron but if that's the case, why not invest yourselves in that argument instead of making a mountain out of this particular mole hill?

Steve

If I could give this post a five star rating (5 out of 5) I would do so. It says what many posters including Chaplin and myself (plus probably others) have been saying in one form or another for days.

I particularly enjoy the mention of John Havlicek, one of the greatest players to have played the game, coming off the bench.

 

[BC867]

Yeah, that's why John Havlicek and Manu Ginobili both quit playing basketball. They were so enraged by having to come off the bench for significant portions of their careers.

John Havlicek was a 6'5 - 203 lb. Small Forward on the most dominant team in the NBA at that time.

Manu Ginobili was a 6'6" - 205 lb. Guard on a team winning Championships.

Marcin Gortat is a 6'11" - 240 lb. Center on a team struggling to reach .500. -- a team which has been playing Power Forwards at Center and with a disappointing project who is weak on defense and very weak on rebounding having tried.

If the Polish Hammer were satisfied coming off the bench (especially after having understudied the best Center in the league for three years), we wouldn't be satisfied with his ambition.

He came here knowing that we were a sub-.500 team which was weak at Center. Let's not put out the fire and expect him to be satisfied as a bench player. This is neither the championship Celtics nor Spurs, overloaded with stars.

It is almost like the Suns are so buried in the mindset of being weak at Center, they are embarrassed to put themselves into a position of power.

The title of this thread is "The Phx Suns have a real center". There is a lot of psychology to it. Let's make the most of it. It would be a statement to our opponents.

 

[desertdawg]

"Polskie Zwierze" "Gortat Dobry"
I'm trying.

 

[AzStevenCal]

John Havlicek was a 6'5 - 203 lb. Small Forward on the most dominant team in the NBA at that time.

Manu Ginobili was a 6'6" - 205 lb. Guard on a team winning Championships.

Marcin Gortat is a 6'11" - 240 lb. Center on a team struggling to reach .500. -- a team which has been playing Power Forwards at Center and with a disappointing project who is weak on defense and very weak on rebounding having tried.

If the Polish Hammer were satisfied coming off the bench (especially after having understudied the best Center in the league for three years), we wouldn't be satisfied with his ambition.

He came here knowing that we were a sub-.500 team which was weak at Center. Let's not put out the fire and expect him to be satisfied as a bench player. This is neither the championship Celtics nor Spurs, overloaded with stars.

It is almost like the Suns are so buried in the mindset of being weak at Center, they are embarrassed to put themselves into a position of power.

The title of this thread is "The Phx Suns have a real center". There is a lot of psychology to it. Let's make the most of it. It would be a statement to our opponents.

This statement would have more relevance if Gortat wasn't already getting a heck of a lot more court time than Lopez. Again, I don't know why Lopez is starting and if this was my team and sitting in my living room gave me all the answers he'd sure as heck be my starting center. But I think we're making something out of nothing. I think there may come a point when it actually does matter but I don't see us there yet (either in the way it impacts the team or Gortat's ego/confidence).

Steve

 

[desertdawg]

This statement would have more relevance if Gortat wasn't already getting a heck of a lot more court time than Lopez. Again, I don't know why Lopez is starting and if this was my team and sitting in my living room gave me all the answers he'd sure as heck be my starting center. But I think we're making something out of nothing. I think there may come a point when it actually does matter but I don't see us there yet (either in the way it impacts the team or Gortat's ego/confidence).

Steve

When it does happen, (and I aint trippin on when) I hope it is at a home game, crowd should go bonkers.

 

[Errntknght]

For the sake of completeness, I'll make the one remaining argument: Gentry continues to start Lopez so Gortat has less pressure on him.

Personally, I'm hoping its an over-reaction to the time he was flip-flopping guys in and out the starting line up on a daily basis.

 

[JCSunsfan]

For the sake of completeness, I'll make the one remaining argument: Gentry continues to start Lopez so Gortat has less pressure on him.

Personally, I'm hoping its an over-reaction to the time he was flip-flopping guys in and out the starting line up on a daily basis.

And because he is trying to get more improvement out of Lopez. Look at the comments in todays AZCentral. He is trying to take pressure off of Gortat and put pressure on Lopez.

Gentry said the Suns are getting good play from center Robin Lopez and Marcin Gortat but added that he expects more from Lopez.

In Sunday's 104-102 win against New Orleans, Gortat played 23:54, getting a team high 25 points and 11 rebounds; Lopez scored 10 points and had six rebounds while on the court for 16:42.

"I'd like to see him still be a little more aggressive," Gentry said. "I'd like for his rebounding to increase some. I think he's gotten better the last couple of games with his aggressiveness, and we just have to keep trying to get him to the point where we're satisfied with his play as far as post-ups and things like that, and defensively.

"He's getting better, but we still think he can be much, much better than what he is."

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...enix-suns-still-work-to-do.html#ixzz1CqOig3EU

 

[Chaplin]

And Lopez can afford to be aggressive at the start of the game. That's where his mistakes won't be as big a deal. But if we're down or in a tight game later, his mistakes become much more important and relevant.

 

[Errntknght]

And Lopez can afford to be aggressive at the start of the game. That's where his mistakes won't be as big a deal. But if we're down or in a tight game later, his mistakes become much more important and relevant.

For once, I'm not picking on you particularly Chap, but I think this is another basketball truism that is unproven and likely not true: that points scored or prevented in some parts of games are more important than others.

One could get some idea whether there is anything to the notion by correlating point differential in each of the four quarters with wins and losses. My guess is that they would all correlate about the same with a small edge to the fourth quarter (overtimes being considered part of the fourth quarter) because in the games tied after 3 quarters the correlation with the 4th Q is perfect.

 

[Chaplin]

For once, I'm not picking on you particularly Chap, but I think this is another basketball truism that is unproven and likely not true: that points scored or prevented in some parts of games are more important than others.

One could get some idea whether there is anything to the notion by correlating point differential in each of the four quarters with wins and losses. My guess is that they would all correlate about the same with a small edge to the fourth quarter (overtimes being considered part of the fourth quarter) because in the games tied after 3 quarters the correlation with the 4th Q is perfect.

This is an extreme example, but here you go: If Robin makes a big mistake and gives up an easy layup with 2 minutes to go in the 4th, we have 2 minutes to make that up. If he gives up an easy layup 2 minutes after the game starts, we have 46 minutes to make it up. It's about giving yourself the best chance to win. It's like starting every game with a play for Vince or JRich--the main reason to do it is to get those guys going, not to win the game within the first minute.

And hey, usually all I'm here for is for you and BC to pick on!

 

[AzStevenCal]

For once, I'm not picking on you particularly Chap, but I think this is another basketball truism that is unproven and likely not true: that points scored or prevented in some parts of games are more important than others.

One could get some idea whether there is anything to the notion by correlating point differential in each of the four quarters with wins and losses. My guess is that they would all correlate about the same with a small edge to the fourth quarter (overtimes being considered part of the fourth quarter) because in the games tied after 3 quarters the correlation with the 4th Q is perfect.

I mostly agree with this but I'd point out that it probably does hold true when it comes to fouls and I think that was part of what he was referring to. A lot of players (seem to) change their style (become less aggressive) if they pick up an early foul or two. If your point is true in general though it further weakens the argument that we need Gortat not to just play starter minutes but to actually start the game.

Steve

 

[BC867]

And hey, usually all I'm here for is for you and BC to pick on!

I was going to respond, but then I saw your wink. Oh, I guess I am responding.

If everyone had the same opinion, this board would be pretty boring.

Suns fans all want the same thing -- The Promised Land.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I was going to respond, but then I saw your wink. Oh, I guess I am responding.

If everyone had the same opinion, this board would be pretty boring.

Suns fans all want the same thing -- The Promised Land.

And a muffin. Muffins are good. If everybody ate more muffins there would be less war, less disease and I'm pretty sure taxes would be lowered also. If someone gave Gortat a muffin I bet he'd be fine coming off the bench for a few years.

Steve

 

[BC867]

And a muffin. Muffins are good. If everybody ate more muffins there would be less war, less disease and I'm pretty sure taxes would be lowered also. If someone gave Gortat a muffin I bet he'd be fine coming off the bench for a few years.

Steve

How about a muffin and a title? I'd even pay inflated arena prices for the muffins.

 

[AzStevenCal]

How about a muffin and a title? I'd even pay inflated arena prices for the muffins.

As long as I get a muffin. With my luck I'll hear this gravelly voice scream, Havlicek has stolen the muffin, Havlicek has stolen the muffin!

Steve

 

[chickenhead]

At the half, Gortat closing in on twice as many minutes as Lopez, fwiw.

 

[desertdawg]

Another dubdub by the Hammer. Rebounds were bouncing/bricking hard tonight and landing outside of the paint. Suns can get back to 500 against the Thunder and we need a big game from our bigs to even hang with Durant.
The Thunder will drive to the bucket, the fouls by Gortat and Lopez will be important ones. I think we can do it.

 

[Covert Rain]

John Havlicek was a 6'5 - 203 lb. Small Forward on the most dominant team in the NBA at that time.

Manu Ginobili was a 6'6" - 205 lb. Guard on a team winning Championships.

Marcin Gortat is a 6'11" - 240 lb. Center on a team struggling to reach .500. -- a team which has been playing Power Forwards at Center and with a disappointing project who is weak on defense and very weak on rebounding having tried.

If the Polish Hammer were satisfied coming off the bench (especially after having understudied the best Center in the league for three years), we wouldn't be satisfied with his ambition.

He came here knowing that we were a sub-.500 team which was weak at Center. Let's not put out the fire and expect him to be satisfied as a bench player. This is neither the championship Celtics nor Spurs, overloaded with stars.

It is almost like the Suns are so buried in the mindset of being weak at Center, they are embarrassed to put themselves into a position of power.

The title of this thread is "The Phx Suns have a real center". There is a lot of psychology to it. Let's make the most of it. It would be a statement to our opponents.

+1

 

[leclerc]

Some good arguments on both sides here. Wanting the starting role shows Gortat's competitive spirit and willingness to lead. If Gentry thinks starting Lopez works better for the team each game and for Lopez's progress that's okay. As long as both players play hard (come on RoLo!) and are competing I'm glad we have some real life authentic centers for once.

I hope Thunder Dan will take back Dragic and continue to make a player (mentally) out of him. It looked like it worked last year but I have no idea what's up this year. Lopez can sort of blame it on his back but both guys need to come out of their shell and be more aggressive.

Now if we could get a scorer and a two-way POWER forward both under 30 years that would be sweet.

GO SUNS!


PS: I wish you'd get a new avatar soon, AzSteve.

 

[BC867]

The old Suns vs. the new Suns

There was an interesting contrast Wednesday night between the old Suns (D'Antoni's N.Y. Knicks) and our new Suns.

The Knicks were outrebounded 54-34 and lost. The Suns outrebounded their opponent 54-39 and won.

The Knicks starting Center played 9 minutes with zero rebounds and was replaced by their Power Forward Amar'e Stoudemire who had 5 in 36 minutes.

The Suns starting Center played 10 minutes with 3 rebounds and was replaced by our backup Center Marcin Gortat who had 13 in 34 minutes.

The Knicks leading rebounder for the night had 7.

The Suns leading rebounder for the night had 13. That was our PF Frye, who is learning how to play like a big man now that the focus and pressure aren't solely on him.

Yes, as the title of this thread says, "The Phx Suns have a real center", while the Knicks continue the old stale approach of sliding their Power Forward over to Center.

After all these years, it's nice to look forward to the future instead of being a prisoner to the past.

 

[leclerc]

I'll drink to that!

 

[jagu]

LOL, I liked his comparison

Gortat on Perkins

"(Perkin's) is a really physical guy. He's a guy who will never let it go. I'm going to kind of compare him to a little dog. These little dogs, they will never let go. They're so small, they just keep barking and just keep running around you. You're going to keep throwing the little ball and they're going to keep running and bring it back. He'll grab to your leg and he'll never let go. That's how is Kendrick Perkins. He'll never let go. He'll keep fighting with you, he'll keep pushing you, keep hitting you and at some point you're going to go like, 'damn dude, you don't have enough?'"

At this point, I admit I was thinking to myself, 'oh crap', here we go. Gortat just called Perkins a little dog and it's going to be on like Donkey Kong. But without pausing to reflect at all, Marcin continued his thought...

"But honestly, that's great. That's character and I really respect him for doing that. I always seen this guy battling Dwight (Howard)...I really respect his game and respect him as a player. Even though right now he's my enemy because we play today, I'm happy he's back on the floor. He's a good player and I believe that he deserves to play because of his hard work and his heart."

http://arizona.sbnation.com/phoenix...pectfully-calls-kendrick-perkins-a-little-dog

 

[elindholm]

Whether Gortat or Lopez starts has precisely zero impact on whether the Suns can win a title in the next five years. They can't. I don't know why some people have such trouble accepting that. At the start of the 2015-16 season, Gortat will be 31 and Lopez will be 27. There's your answer right there.

 

[BC867]

...whether the Suns can win a title in the next five years. They can't. I don't know why some people have such trouble accepting that.

As a Phoenix resident for the past 32+ years, I have never given up hope that the Suns would find a proper balance (which they have) and come up with the few missing pieces to join the elite.

So I reject your proclamation that the Suns can't win a title in the next five years.

I accept it as your opinion. But saying that "some people have such trouble accepting that" doesn't show the same respect to local Suns fans.

 

[desertdawg]

Whether Gortat or Lopez starts has precisely zero impact on whether the Suns can win a title in the next five years. They can't. I don't know why some people have such trouble accepting that. At the start of the 2015-16 season, Gortat will be 31 and Lopez will be 27. There's your answer right there.

Who is saying we will win a championship if we start Gortat over Lopez?
Most everything I read in here suggests we are going to have a rough time in the playoffs if we get there. Now that the trade is turning out to be very good for the Suns, the playoffs look like a real possibility right now. BTW I accept it every year when the Suns don't win a title.

Lopez defenders are more up in arms than the Gortat lovers.
Gortat will get his minutes because he is the better player, and he will start soon enough. I don't know who will still be on the team in 5 years, probably just Nash.
Nobody is knocking Lopez, just keeping the team in mind. Gortat will bring the double double with a spark. Lopez has been looking better, but it is kinda sad because Gortat goes in and goes off.
Lopez is young, (and probably still growing from the way he runs) and has plenty of time to mature....the way Gortat has.

It's ok, we have a center and we can use him. I have no trouble accepting that. We are no where near a title, accepted. Gortat makes this team watchable again with out it hurting, I'll accept that all day, Nash will too.