The Suns Need To Draft A Rebounder

[George O'Brien]

I know there are people like Colorado who want the Suns to draft a PG. My feeling is that the Suns will try to solve their backup PG problems through bringing over Vujanic or signing a free agent. In any case, the Suns need to have someone who can be a beast on the boards.

It's not about size. Reggie Evans of the Sonics is only 6'8" 245, but averages 9.2 rpg in just 23.3 minutes. If he had slightly more offensive skills I'd recommend the Suns make a run at signing him as a free agent this summer, but I suspect the Sonics will give him a good contract. In any case, I'd like to have someone with his approach available. The Suns cannot afford to get killed by almost 20 rebounds like they did against the Pistons if they hope to win the championship.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Seems like Ike fits the bill....

 

[George O'Brien]

Seems like Ike fits the bill....

Could be. It will be interesting to see how he does in workouts.

 

[JPlay]

H*ll yeah they do

 

[elindholm]

There's nothing wrong with the Suns' rebounders except that they don't do it. Everyone in the starting lineup except for Nash should be an above-average rebounder at his position. They simply lack rebounding fundamentals. Stoudemire, Marion, and Johnson have three years of college among them, and I think they've just never been taught how to rebound properly.

I know how sarcastic people tend to get when Voskuhl's name comes up, but in those rare moments when he's on the floor, watch him on the defensive glass: Unlike his teammates, he actually boxes out. He isn't the athlete that the starters are, so almost every rebound he gets comes from technique. I'd guess that the starters average no more than two "technique rebounds" per game, and probably not even that many.

 

[Skkorpion]

Won't getting and playing a rebound specialist negatively impact our offensive attack?

My guess is Detroit's front office is saying "Man, we dominate in every way but lose to Phoenix even when they play slow because of those stinking three pointers. Maybe we should go get a couple of long range shooters."

It's all relative. There are many ways to win.

 

[coloradosun]

I know there are people like Colorado who want the Suns to draft a PG. My feeling is that the Suns will try to solve their backup PG problems through bringing over Vujanic or signing a free agent. In any case, the Suns need to have someone who can be a beast on the boards.

It's not about size. Reggie Evans of the Sonics is only 6'8" 245, but averages 9.2 rpg in just 23.3 minutes. If he had slightly more offensive skills I'd recommend the Suns make a run at signing him as a free agent this summer, but I suspect the Sonics will give him a good contract. In any case, I'd like to have someone with his approach available. The Suns cannot afford to get killed by almost 20 rebounds like they did against the Pistons if they hope to win the championship.

I've changed my tune, Joey Graham is my new prize.

I've backed off a point guard in the 1st round because I think Diener will be available in the second.

 

[myrondizzo]

I've changed my tune, Joey Graham is my new prize.

I've backed off a point guard in the 1st round because I think Diener will be available in the second.

what about warrick?
i havent seen him play but his write up on nbadraft.net sounds promiseing.

 

[sunsfn]

There was a report the suns tried to get Vujanic over here earlier and they would have had to buy him out, so they decided against it. They will probably work at getting him here and try to get a big man that can rebound. If Vujanic does not come over I look for them to sign a free agent veteran point guard.

However, any big man they get will have to be able to score some or he is not going to be a sun. This team is having success at scoring and they will want to keep doing that, but I think they will try to get a big man to get some rebounds off the bench.

There will not be a big man for them in the draft that I can see at 15-18, so they may end up trading the pick.

 

[devilalum]

Won't getting and playing a rebound specialist negatively impact our offensive attack?

My guess is Detroit's front office is saying "Man, we dominate in every way but lose to Phoenix even when they play slow because of those stinking three pointers. Maybe we should go get a couple of long range shooters."

It's all relative. There are many ways to win.

I don't think it's one or the other though.

If Amare would just dominate on the glass the way he should the Suns would have won that game easy.

You can't even complain about Amare playing out of position. Detroit doesn't have a big dominant center. Amare had 10 boards but the Wallaces just abused him and Shawn during stretches.

 

[SirStefan32]

There's nothing wrong with the Suns' rebounders except that they don't do it. Everyone in the starting lineup except for Nash should be an above-average rebounder at his position. They simply lack rebounding fundamentals. Stoudemire, Marion, and Johnson have three years of college among them, and I think they've just never been taught how to rebound properly.

I know how sarcastic people tend to get when Voskuhl's name comes up, but in those rare moments when he's on the floor, watch him on the defensive glass: Unlike his teammates, he actually boxes out. He isn't the athlete that the starters are, so almost every rebound he gets comes from technique. I'd guess that the starters average no more than two "technique rebounds" per game, and probably not even that many.

You're exactly right Eric. Suns don't need a "rebounder." They simply need to start boxing out and rebounding instead of standing still and hoping the ball flies into their hands. There's no reason Amare should not be getting 10-12 boards per game.

Stefan

 

[BC867]

There's nothing wrong with the Suns' rebounders except that they don't do it. Everyone in the starting lineup except for Nash should be an above-average rebounder at his position. They simply lack rebounding fundamentals. Stoudemire, Marion, and Johnson have three years of college among them, and I think they've just never been taught how to rebound properly.

It's surprising that the Suns are still lacking in rebounding fundamentals.

Assistant coach Marc Iavaroni had the best reputation in the NBA from his days instructing at Pete Newel's Big Men's camp.

Despite the Suns long time reputation as being a backcourt oriented team, I really thought that Mark would make his mark on the team.

Having another Guard as our Head Coach, I wonder what authority Iavaroni has behind the scenes.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Having another Guard as our Head Coach, I wonder what authority Iavaroni has behind the scenes.

The better question is how great Iavaroni actually is.

 

[PhxGametime]

What 2nd Rounder do the Suns still own? The number would be great?


Senior Lawrence Roberts averages 11+ rebounds, can make the 3PTer (even though his PCT took a hit this year), and is a decent Pick in the 2nd Round... I have a feeling with all the underclassman that might enter he could last to the early 2nd Round. Ike is a possiblity, Linas Kleiza is another 2nd Round Prospect with the same capability of the other 2 but PCT is .27 (with almost 30 made). I will try to check stats after post but Freshman Juan Diego Palacios can make the 3PTer - I will check PCT and rebound numbers...


I still have a feeling, Hakim Warrick, Marvin Williams, Danny Granger, Joey Graham, etc. will be possibilities.

Too bad Leon Powe missed the whole year.

 

[George O'Brien]

I think the Suns could get more rebounds if they focused on getting into position, blocking out, etc. None the less, the fact that Marion is the only Sun in the top 50 of rebounds per 48 minutes (at 22) should be cause for concern. The Knicks have

One problem I've noticed that the Suns rebounders routinely get pushed too close to the basket. None of them seem to be able to maintain their position, even if they are set to block out. Unfortunately, the refs rarely call these push in the back fouls.

Marion is the only Sun in the top 50 rebounders per 48 minutes (tied with Kirt Thomas at 22). Even the Knicks are doing better:

21. Michael Sweetney (New York Knicks) 13.5
22. Kurt Thomas (New York Knicks) 13.3
30. Malik Rose (New York Knicks) 12.8

Here is the list:

2004-05 Regular Season Rebounds Per 48 Minutes
Player G REB RP48
1. Reggie Evans (Seattle SuperSonics) 53 490 19.0
2. Dan Gadzuric (Milwaukee Bucks) 54 416 17.5
3. Kevin Garnett (Minnesota Timberwolves) 58 796 17.0
4. Danny Fortson (Seattle SuperSonics) 48 291 16.5
5. Tyson Chandler (Chicago Bulls) 53 486 16.3
6. Tim Duncan (San Antonio Spurs) 55 646 16.1
7. Joel Przybilla (Portland Trail Blazers) 50 323 15.9
8. Ben Wallace (Detroit Pistons) 48 571 15.7
9. Marcus Camby (Denver Nuggets) 49 487 15.5
9. Troy Murphy (Golden State Warriors) 46 517 15.5
11. Dikembe Mutombo (Houston Rockets) 56 249 15.3
12. Erick Dampier (Dallas Mavericks) 48 418 15.2
13. Drew Gooden (Cleveland Cavaliers) 56 532 14.7
14. Emeka Okafor (Charlotte Bobcats) 47 512 14.6
14. Shaquille O'Neal (Miami Heat) 55 577 14.6
16. Dwight Howard (Orlando Magic) 56 543 14.5
17. Eddie Griffin (Minnesota Timberwolves) 52 322 14.1
18. Nazr Mohammed (San Antonio Spurs) 56 446 13.9
19. Alan Henderson (Dallas Mavericks) 53 238 13.7
19. Lamar Odom (Los Angeles Lakers) 55 572 13.7
21. Michael Sweetney (New York Knicks) 52 269 13.5
22. Shawn Marion (Phoenix Suns) 58 636 13.3
22. Kurt Thomas (New York Knicks) 57 582 13.3
24. Zach Randolph (Portland Trail Blazers) 46 442 13.2
24. Udonis Haslem (Miami Heat) 59 541 13.2
26. Lorenzen Wright (Memphis Grizzlies) 55 411 13.1
26. Chris Andersen (New Orleans Hornets) 56 316 13.1
26. Chris Mihm (Los Angeles Lakers) 55 375 13.1
29. Antonio McDyess (Detroit Pistons) 51 326 12.9
30. Robert Traylor (Cleveland Cavaliers) 48 228 12.8
30. Nick Collison (Seattle SuperSonics) 56 217 12.8
30. Rasho Nesterovic (San Antonio Spurs) 51 343 12.8
30. Chris Webber (Philadelphia 76ers) 49 471 12.8
30. Malik Rose (New York Knicks) 52 236 12.8
35. Zaza Pachulia (Milwaukee Bucks) 49 245 12.7
36. Mehmet Okur (Utah Jazz) 57 402 12.6
36. Yao Ming (Houston Rockets) 57 468 12.6
38. Raef LaFrentz (Boston Celtics) 57 413 12.5
38. Michael Ruffin (Washington Wizards) 56 243 12.5
40. Elton Brand (Los Angeles Clippers) 57 552 12.4
40. Carlos Boozer (Utah Jazz) 51 457 12.4
42. Jermaine O'Neal (Indiana Pacers) 41 367 12.2
42. P.J. Brown (New Orleans Hornets) 57 515 12.2
44. Dirk Nowitzki (Dallas Mavericks) 55 552 12.1
44. Brendan Haywood (Washington Wizards) 53 358 12.1
44. Zydrunas Ilgauskas (Cleveland Cavaliers) 56 478 12.1
47. Brad Miller (Sacramento Kings) 56 521 12.0
48. Curtis Borchardt (Utah Jazz) 49 151 11.8
49. Adonal Foyle (Golden State Warriors) 54 246 11.6
50. Tony Battie (Orlando Magic) 55 321 11.5

 

[PhxGametime]

.37 PCT but only 6.3 rebounds in 26 minutes for Palacios...


Ike is a 1st Round possibility but I do like Roberts in the 2nd, although he struggled this year. Ike rebounds at 9.8 I believe and Roberts at 11.1, he is probably a better athlete and is likely 6'8 with scouts say short arms (so he'd slip some too) . He reminds me of Gugliotta, Googs wasn't a great athlete but IMO was a pretty good rebounder before his injuries and could do a lot on the court. Good steal numbers (1.6 or 1.8), not a great shot-blocker at .8 - I have a feeling Ike would demand the Bulls Pick, which might not be that bad of an idea but Roberts and a PG with 1st could be how I'd go. Milos Vujanic might want too many minutes but you never know, Free Agency is after the Draft though too and I'm not sure with the need to resign Hunter with Mid-Level most likely... that I'd chance Vujanic?

 

[George O'Brien]

.37 PCT but only 6.3 rebounds in 26 minutes for Palacios...


Ike is a 1st Round possibility but I do like Roberts in the 2nd, although he struggled this year. Ike rebounds at 9.8 I believe and Roberts at 11.1, he is probably a better athlete and is likely 6'8 with scouts say short arms (so he'd slip some too) . He reminds me of Gugliotta, Googs wasn't a great athlete but IMO was a pretty good rebounder before his injuries and could do a lot on the court. Good steal numbers (1.6 or 1.8), not a great shot-blocker at .8 - I have a feeling Ike would demand the Bulls Pick, which might not be that bad of an idea but Roberts and a PG with 1st could be how I'd go. Milos Vujanic might want too many minutes but you never know, Free Agency is after the Draft though too and I'm not sure with the need to resign Hunter with Mid-Level most likely... that I'd chance Vujanic?

There is nothing preventing the Suns from negotiating with Vujanic before the draft. They'll know.

 

[mkapp]

Could it be that the Suns offensive style is negatively affecting their defense? It seems to me that they are all focused on getting down the court for another great run-and-gun play, but nobody actually makes sure they have the ball first. When they are in their fast-paced mode the rebounding goes to half-effort. Against Det the other night, once they settled down and went into the half court game they were more effective on the glass. They also had a bigger lineup on the floor. Yes, I agree that there are times when they are purely outmuscled. The only real muscle is Amare. Hunter, Marion all get pushed around too much, and Voskul is white. However I think they rebound rather well for a team that puts a smallball group out on the floor.

 

[Joe Mama]

Could it be that the Suns offensive style is negatively affecting their defense? It seems to me that they are all focused on getting down the court for another great run-and-gun play, but nobody actually makes sure they have the ball first. When they are in their fast-paced mode the rebounding goes to half-effort. Against Det the other night, once they settled down and went into the half court game they were more effective on the glass. They also had a bigger lineup on the floor. Yes, I agree that there are times when they are purely outmuscled. The only real muscle is Amare. Hunter, Marion all get pushed around too much, and Voskul is white. However I think they rebound rather well for a team that puts a smallball group out on the floor.

That's definitely part of the problem, but against Detroit on Thursday they were just getting beat on the boards. Part of the problem was that Rasheed Wallace is so much bigger and taller than Shawn Marion that he was able to reach right over him and tap the ball to himself or his teammates. I can't remember how many times I saw Amare Stoudemire's men go right around him for an offensive board. When he does put his body on someone he seems to forget to maintain the box out.

I think the Suns could get more rebounds if they focused on getting into position, blocking out, etc. None the less, the fact that Marion is the only Sun in the top 50 of rebounds per 48 minutes (at 22) should be cause for concern. The Knicks have

One problem I've noticed that the Suns rebounders routinely get pushed too close to the basket. None of them seem to be able to maintain their position, even if they are set to block out. Unfortunately, the refs rarely call these push in the back fouls.

This is something I thought I posted about yesterday. Too often they end up with all of their rebounders right under the basket. When this is the case anything that comes off the basket more than 5-7 feet is going over their heads.

Oftentimes they are pushed under the basket. We all know that happens on both sides of the court a lot in the NBA. However the Suns end up playing too close to the basket for the rebounds even when they aren't being pushed.

I'm not sure this team can ever be great on the boards playing smaller than everybody else, but they can definitely do better than they are presently. May be the coaching staff decided to implement and teach their offensive game plan last summer and the defensive/rebounding is in this upcoming summer's lesson plan.

Joe

 

[coloradosun]

what about warrick?
i havent seen him play but his write up on nbadraft.net sounds promiseing.

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/joeygraham.asp

"very tough player, likes contact, rebounds" ; "has solid base and good rebounding fundamentals" ; "huge hands which makes it tough to rip the ball away"


I had posted this in another thread, so this might be redundant but the first paragraph sayes a lot about Grahams character and work ethic. If we are focusing in on rebounding in this thread I don't think Warrick is the answer or any other prospect that needs to add "bulk". I am very hesitant to add some of these players from the Northeast ( Boone, Villanueva, Warrick), I just don't think they have good work ethics, take Carmelo Anthony for example, IMO he is the anti-LeBron.

Graham is another Florida grown prospect, just like Amare, which could be good bonding agent for the two. You have got to build around Amare and why not add a player with similar work ethic and also some other commonalities.

 

[sunsfn]

and Voskul is white.

What kind of a comment is that supposed to be........

By the way, Voskuhl is a good rebounder as the suns have if he gets minutes.

 

[George O'Brien]

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/joeygraham.asp

"very tough player, likes contact, rebounds" ; "has solid base and good rebounding fundamentals" ; "huge hands which makes it tough to rip the ball away"


I had posted this in another thread, so this might be redundant but the first paragraph sayes a lot about Grahams character and work ethic. If we are focusing in on rebounding in this thread I don't think Warrick is the answer or any other prospect that needs to add "bulk". I am very hesitant to add some of these players from the Northeast ( Boone, Villanueva, Warrick), I just don't think they have good work ethics, take Carmelo Anthony for example, IMO he is the anti-LeBron.

Graham is another Florida grown prospect, just like Amare, which could be good bonding agent for the two. You have got to build around Amare and why not add a player with similar work ethic and also some other commonalities.

Graham looked very good when I saw him, but he is about the size of Shawn and a lot lighter than JJ. I can see him as a BPA, but not for filling a need.

Personally, I would rather trade the pick for a young veteran that would fill a need, than to take another guy who doesn't.

 

[coloradosun]

Graham looked very good when I was him, but he is about the size of Shawn and a lot lighter than JJ. I can see him as a BPA, but not for filling a need.

Personally, I would rather trade the pick for a young veteran that would fill a need, than to take another guy who doesn't.

Do you think that the Suns will resign McCarty because I see him on the roster next season. I think he could be best veteran you looking for or who do you have in mind. So this would be the depth chart that I would like to see

Hunter/Voskuhl
Amare/McCarty
Marion/Graham
JJ1/JJ2/Q
Nash/Barbosa/Diener

I would love to see the Suns trade Vujanic back to the Knicks for the Suns pick so that they could also positon themselves for Channing Frye, long shot though.

 

[coloradosun]

Could it be that the Suns offensive style is negatively affecting their defense? It seems to me that they are all focused on getting down the court for another great run-and-gun play, but nobody actually makes sure they have the ball first. When they are in their fast-paced mode the rebounding goes to half-effort. Against Det the other night, once they settled down and went into the half court game they were more effective on the glass. They also had a bigger lineup on the floor. Yes, I agree that there are times when they are purely outmuscled. The only real muscle is Amare. Hunter, Marion all get pushed around too much, and Voskul is white. However I think they rebound rather well for a team that puts a smallball group out on the floor.

There does not seem to be a high priority on offensive rebounds in the Suns scemes. That is where Detroit had 12 rebound edge, they went after their own misses, the Suns prefer to schrug off a miss and get back on defense. Their preference is having more possessions in a game vs. offensive rebounds, that is one key component in setting the pace of the game. With an offensive rebound, the player either puts it up right away, gets fouled or sends it out front to set up the offense, slowing down the game. If you are going to out-run your opponent vs. out-muscle them, it is best to forfeit offensive rebounds for more possessions. Stamina over Strength.

 

[PhxGametime]

Do you think that the Suns will resign McCarty because I see him on the roster next season. I think he could be best veteran you looking for or who do you have in mind. So this would be the depth chart that I would like to see

Hunter/Voskuhl
Amare/McCarty
Marion/Graham
JJ1/JJ2/Q
Nash/Barbosa/Diener

I would love to see the Suns trade Vujanic back to the Knicks for the Suns pick so that they could also positon themselves for Channing Frye, long shot though.

If McCarty is on the roster next year, I don't see a need for Graham, Warrick, etc. I can't see the Suns having Marion, Richardson, Johnson, Jackson, McCarty, AND Graham (Barbosa can play the 2 as well). I'd prefer either Graham (or any other 3/4) or McCarty, not both. Keeping McCarty, I would asume a PG or a 4/5 would be needed most.