This Sunday is Warner's Last Stand

[Mulli]

GOD! STOP IT!

This isnt warners last stand....if you think that then you're a moron.

Matt Leinart is slow....has a softer arm.....and does not grasp the scheme as well as warner. He's also just as injury prone

That is pure fact....no speculation! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get a grip!!!!! If you want to ride something......ride the DC and the defense.

Hah! You really dropped the ball with this one.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

There just has to be more to it for the coaches not to like what they see in Matt other than the Oakland preseason game.

I don't think there is any conspiracy. Matt just must have not performed well enough on things we didn't see. I just can't believe he wouldn't have started over Warner had he shown the coaches he was ready to start. Obviously, they don't trust him and won't start him unless they have to, at least not yet.

LMAO - ChiCards - These Warner backers are nutso!

Here are some (or maybe in sum) of why I don't think Matt got named the starter in no short order although that was Wisenhunts preference from the beginning of the offseason.

1) External pressure - Even though this shouldn't matter it does. After one bad half of QB play every arm chair QB in the nation had stated that Wiz would lose the team if he went with an "obviously" inept Leinart. Its Matts fault because even if he would have had a decent game he would be the starter IMO. This is the least important of the reasons but i think it played a part.

2) Internal Pressure - I am of the opinion the two best players on the team prefer Warner at QB because he force feeds them the ball and it gets their stats up. They have a big say in the lockeroom and while Matt spreads the ball around, Kurt goes to those two almost exclusively.

3) Seeing what they have with Kurt - Matts locked in for this year and next year on the cheap. Warner is a FA at years end. One way or another it was time to find out what they have in Warner and whetehr he could get it done longe term.

4) Smart coaching move - We play 3 of our first 4 on the road. Warner is a vet and Matt hasn't shown he has it on the road yet. It was critical to start the season off well.

5) Smart personnel move - If Leinart fails and Warner comes in - you really can't ever go back to Matt and hes for all intensive purposes done as a Cardinal. But if you go with Warner initially and he fails or even succeeds - you can always say to Matt "you need to develop more and we still have confidence in you"

Its not like Matt was that thoroughly out played in the preseason. He inargubally had the worst half (Raiders) of the preseason but he also looked the sharpest in that last Denver game IMO. All of the Warner backers all of a sudden think that Wiz is a "pro warner" guy and has always believed in warner but I think the tension between the two philosophically couldn't be more palatable.

I think its part of the reasoning above rather then Wiz all of a sudden having all this faith in Warner. In fact I am of the opinion he is convinced he can't win with the guy long term.

Alot of this is conjecture but I am basing it on what I have seen and how this offseason played out.

 

[nashman]

Warner is starting because he is the better QB period right now. If Leinart was better he would be playing, he needs more time apparently. I don't think Leinart is a bust but when he plays I don't care for the happy feet and total lack of arm strength. He may work out for us in the long run but their is just as good a chance he doesn't. It is early in the season and Warner still gives us the best chance to win. Like I said in another thread if we are 2-4 and heading knowhere bring in Leinart. Thing is though as bad as the division is looking 8-8 could win it, and for me making the playoffs would be huge for this TEAM no matter who is at QB.

 

[Gambit]

Leinart had one bad half in a preseason game and he was labeled a bust. Whiz's dumbed down offense makes both QBs look bad. Leinart is younger, doesn't turn the ball over, and has way more upside. Everyone asssumes that Whiz knows what he's doing, but I wouldn't be so sure. He has completely mismanaged the QB situation. When Leinart took over for Warner 2 years ago, no one had an issue with it. There was no controversy coming into last year until Whiz started pulling the QB carousel crap when he was saying how Leinart couldn't run the hurry up which was a joke because we have all seen him run it fine. This is more about Whiz being wishy washy then anything else.

co-sign

 

[john h]

wtf? he had one bad half all season.

He has had one bad quarter in 4 games. Yes it was a real bad quarter but he had a lot of help. Football is still a team game. Our pressure on Favre was non existent. I do not recall one sack. He had all day to throw 6 TD's. I did not even like our game plan until we go so far behind we had to go with the no huddle pass first offense. That is what this team does best. We were very much in the game going into the 4th quarter inspite of the horrendous 2 quarter.

If the coaches think that Leinart will give us the best chance of winning you can be sure the coaches will put him in. Their jobs are also on the line. They know the abilities of the players much better than any of us as they see them every day at practice. I will go with what ever they decide. This does not mean I always like their game plan or play calling but when it comes to who should start they know a lot more than I will ever know about football.

 

[Spielman]

I read that Kurt has never had more than one game in a season where he had 4 or more turnovers. Hopefully, he got it all out of his system against NY.

That's because he's tended to get benched after those games.

Not trying to be mean; I love Warner. But it's true.

 

[Russ Smith]

Hah! You really dropped the ball with this one.

Well played good sir.

 

[Russ Smith]

I read that Kurt has never had more than one game in a season where he had 4 or more turnovers. Hopefully, he got it all out of his system against NY.

Not true he had 5 against SF and 5 against Seattle last year and I only looked at 07 to find that. I'm assuming he's had 4 or more more than one game in other seasons but I didn't look.

 

[MadCardDisease]

We all knew going into this season with Warner as a starter that there will be games where Warner coughs up the ball. We just have to hope it doesn't become a trend.

This is far from Warners last stand IMO.

 

[earthsci]

We all knew going into this season with Warner as a starter that there will be games where Warner coughs up the ball. We just have to hope it doesn't become a trend.

This is far from Warners last stand IMO.

I don't know MCD. If Kurt turns over the ball against the Bills I wouldn't be shocked if Leinart replaces him.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I don't know MCD. If Kurt turns over the ball against the Bills I wouldn't be shocked if Leinart replaces him.

Which would in turn tell me that Whiz isn't as good at managing as we all think. Just a couple of days ago, he said that he saw no reason to bench Kurt.... no reason.

So if he truly believes that and he benches Warner after a turnover or two, it shows me that he doesn't really know what to do in regards to this QB situation.

It really is a lose lose situation for him if Warner plays poorly. It would have been better for him to say that Kurt was on a short leash. Nobody would have criticized that move after the game he had.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I don't know MCD. If Kurt turns over the ball against the Bills I wouldn't be shocked if Leinart replaces him.

I think Wiz will wait till the Bye week before making that change. Why throw Leinart to the wolves against two division leaders? This is assuming Kurt has 2 more horrible games.

 

[Russ Smith]

Which would in turn tell me that Whiz isn't as good at managing as we all think. Just a couple of days ago, he said that he saw no reason to bench Kurt.... no reason.

So if he truly believes that and he benches Warner after a turnover or two, it shows me that he doesn't really know what to do in regards to this QB situation.

It really is a lose lose situation for him if Warner plays poorly. It would have been better for him to say that Kurt was on a short leash. Nobody would have criticized that move after the game he had.

I'm guessing Whiz was hoping the Jets game was due to weather conditions not Warner just being prone to dropping the ball. Since he had the bulk of the snaps all week he figured better to ride him than go to Matt.

If he does it again this week in much better weather then I think Whiz is going to be thinking ok this is a trend now.

 

[earthsci]

Which would in turn tell me that Whiz isn't as good at managing as we all think. Just a couple of days ago, he said that he saw no reason to bench Kurt.... no reason.

It would tell me that he managed it well. If he says that he has no reason to bench Kurt it helps Kurt relax and not worry about looking over his shoulder. Because he says that he has no reason to replace Kurt doesn't mean that he isn't thinking about it.

So if he truly believes that and he benches Warner after a turnover or two, it shows me that he doesn't really know what to do in regards to this QB situation.

I'm not talking about one or two turnovers. He could probably even do three as long as we win. Four or more and I seriously doubt we win.

It really is a lose lose situation for him if Warner plays poorly. It would have been better for him to say that Kurt was on a short leash. Nobody would have criticized that move after the game he had.

Once again, saying that would have Warner looking over his shoulder. IMO that isn't a good thing.

Here's to hoping that Kurt hangs on to the ball and is accurate with his throws!

 

[ajcardfan]

I'm guessing Whiz was hoping the Jets game was due to weather conditions not Warner just being prone to dropping the ball. Since he had the bulk of the snaps all week he figured better to ride him than go to Matt.

If he does it again this week in much better weather then I think Whiz is going to be thinking ok this is a trend now.

Whiz kind of sounded like Card Campos in the paper this morning. He said Warner needs to be protected better and that most QBs would've fumbled in those circumstances. He said he played well in the second half. I was a bit surprised that he was that protective of Kurt.

 

[moklerman]

It would tell me that he managed it well. If he says that he has no reason to bench Kurt it helps Kurt relax and not worry about looking over his shoulder. Because he says that he has no reason to replace Kurt doesn't mean that he isn't thinking about it.

I agree. I think Whis has shown he's a practicing psychological coach. He doesn't always get it right but he certainly focuses on the psyche of his players.

 

[Russ Smith]

Whiz kind of sounded like Card Campos in the paper this morning. He said Warner needs to be protected better and that most QBs would've fumbled in those circumstances. He said he played well in the second half. I was a bit surprised that he was that protective of Kurt.

To an extent he almost has to because he doesnt' want to just throw Warner under the bus. the QB is so important on a team if you do that you're telling the whole team you don't believe in him.

Remember Matt's bad game in preseason Whiz talked about receivers running wrong routes and things like that.

 

[Gambit]

Whiz kind of sounded like Card Campos in the paper this morning. He said Warner needs to be protected better and that most QBs would've fumbled in those circumstances. He said he played well in the second half. I was a bit surprised that he was that protective of Kurt.

I'm not. It's clear he loves Kurt, with that stupid Tandum QB thing from last year, to glossing over this year's atrocities. That's fine, Kurt is a great guy, but Whiz needs to separate the man from the player. And I'm not sure he's doing that.

 

[JC_AZ]

Leinart had one bad half in a preseason game and he was labeled a bust. Whiz's dumbed down offense makes both QBs look bad. Leinart is younger, doesn't turn the ball over, and has way more upside. Everyone asssumes that Whiz knows what he's doing, but I wouldn't be so sure. He has completely mismanaged the QB situation. When Leinart took over for Warner 2 years ago, no one had an issue with it. There was no controversy coming into last year until Whiz started pulling the QB carousel crap when he was saying how Leinart couldn't run the hurry up which was a joke because we have all seen him run it fine. This is more about Whiz being wishy washy then anything else.

I think THAT settles it... we sit them both and go with St Pierre, then we won't have to endure this Matt vs. KW controversy and we can still go 8-8

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I'm not. It's clear he loves Kurt, with that stupid Tandum QB thing from last year, to glossing over this year's atrocities. That's fine, Kurt is a great guy, but Whiz needs to separate the man from the player. And I'm not sure he's doing that.

Wow - I just really disagree. I think he is chomping at the bit to go back to the kid as he plays the postion the way he wants it played.

I think Wiz hates the fact that Warner is a turnover prone gun slinger and went with him to start for a bunch of reasons I outlined in another post.

Am I crazy here?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Wow - I just really disagree. I think he is chomping at the bit to go back to the kid as he plays the postion the way he wants it played.

I think Wiz hates the fact that Warner is a turnover prone gun slinger and went with him to start for a bunch of reasons I outlined in another post.

Am I crazy here?

yes. I don't think Wiz chomps at the bit to put either of us QBs in the game because he doesn't trust either of them enough to win.

People all off-season kept saying we had the best 1/2 QB combo in the league and that... eh, pointless.

I think Wiz knows he is a damned if he does, damned if he doesn't position this season in regards to QB. Ultimately, in the short run, neither or these guys have all the attributes it takes to play the position at a consistent or high enough level of play to get anywhere near the promised land.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I think Wiz knows he is a damned if he does, damned if he doesn't position this season in regards to QB. Ultimately, in the short run, neither or these guys have all the attributes it takes to play the position at a consistent or high enough level of play to get anywhere near the promised land.

I don't know about that. Give Warner a solid O-Line and a running game and I think he could make it back there again for the third time.

 

[nashman]

Yeah Cheese I don't think its fair to say niether can do it as Warner has done it multiple times and well we don't know if Matt will be able to do it or not. Warner can win because he can put up alot of points we just need a D that doesn't give up more, unfortunetely right now our D sucks, hoepfully they can wake up and play well in the games to come. AW really needs to be on the field, also whats the status with Watson anyone know? CC should get a shot too as we really need to pressure the QB with our lousy secondary.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't know about that. Give Warner a solid O-Line and a running game and I think he could make it back there again for the third time.

does he also need the two-all Pro WRs like he did last time as well?

Tell me, in what mythical universe (except for the Rams 1999-2001 seasons) does a QB TWICE get a running game, a solid O-line and Two Pro Bowl WRs.

The above basically says if Warner gets perfection surrounding him, he can be... ah, forget it.

 

[MadCardDisease]

does he also need the two-all Pro WRs like he did last time as well?

Tell me, in what mythical universe (except for the Rams 1999-2001 seasons) does a QB TWICE get a running game, a solid O-line and Two Pro Bowl WRs.

The Colts?