When will people critically analyze Kobe Bryant's playoff performances?

[nashman]

Their not bad numbers for most players, but for the MVP whom most consider the best in the game not good. The Lakers got punked in this series it could have been a sweep without the home cookin to squeeze out a few close ones for the Lakers. Wonder what happen to all the clutch shooting all you Lakers fans were talking about? Like I said when the pressure got put on Kobe was the only one who was able to still play well, Gasol = soft, choker, Fish = ummm wierd thought he would play much better, Sucha Eurobitch, Lamar, Rad, Farmar, Luke = all disappeared. The Suns may be better defensively at this point, the Lakers couldn't stop anything!! Oh and one last thing Doc outcoached PJ badly in this series. Not sure what the hell PJ was doing alot of the time and it pretty much never worked!

 

[cobbler]

Their not bad numbers for most players, but for the MVP whom most consider the best in the game not good. The Lakers got punked in this series it could have been a sweep without the home cookin to squeeze out a few close ones for the Lakers. Wonder what happen to all the clutch shooting all you Lakers fans were talking about? Like I said when the pressure got put on Kobe was the only one who was able to still play well, Gasol = soft, choker, Fish = ummm wierd thought he would play much better, Sucha Eurobitch, Lamar, Rad, Farmar, Luke = all disappeared. The Suns may be better defensively at this point, the Lakers couldn't stop anything!! Oh and one last thing Doc outcoached PJ badly in this series. Not sure what the hell PJ was doing alot of the time and it pretty much never worked!

So would you say Pierce totally outplayed everyone? Did he have a truly exceptional Finals MVP performance? The Lakers are young and their youth showed. They got beat by a better defensive team. And had they finished the game 2 20 point comeback and not given up the Game 4 one (both in the last 2 mins of the game, they win. They didn't. Well be back.

 

[nowagimp]

They make great points in both articles. This is 2 years in a row that a regular season MVP has disappeared in the finals. His performance was not as bad as Dirk's but not far off. At least Kobe showed flashes in this series. That's alot more then I can say about Dirk.

Basketball is a team game, MVP is NOT more important than the team concept. Im LOL at how many people seem to think one guy is a dominant factor in winning the championship. Micheal jordan needed ALOT of help to win, the simpleton view just has MJ winning games. In reality MJ wins ZIP without Pippen, and one more all star. Did MJ win ANYTHING without 2 other all stars and some nice bench depth? I am not a fan of Kobe Bryant, but to put it on one guy is a joke. Lamar choked, Gasol was pathetic defensively, and fisher couldnt stop rondo without a gun. And vujacic and Radmonovic were some of the dumbest and most pathetic defenders I've seen in the finals in a long time. Several times sasha left Ray Allen alone to double a marginal offensive player, and BAM Ray nails a 3, AGAIN. When, just when do you leave one of the best pure shooters in the game alone at the 3 pt line to double a marginal player? The lakers euros looked so bad on defense, I just couldnt blame PJ, thats what he has to work with. No amount of coaching can make up for stupidity and lack of skills of the players. And those laker euros were slow AND stupid on defense. Of course narrow minded suns fans would blame those failings on the coach, but not if that coach was PJ, I'll bet.

I am glad the celtics won, I picked them early in the playoffs(after the suns went fishin), the fans do have more class than most. And its nice to see my spur and laker fan buddies eating some humble pie. I just didnt want to see any of those jerseys this summer.

 

[cobbler]

Basketball is a team game, MVP is NOT more important than the team concept. Im LOL at how many people seem to think one guy is a dominant factor in winning the championship. Micheal jordan needed ALOT of help to win, the simpleton view just has MJ winning games. In reality MJ wins ZIP without Pippen, and one more all star. Did MJ win ANYTHING without 2 other all stars and some nice bench depth? I am not a fan of Kobe Bryant, but to put it on one guy is a joke. Lamar choked, Gasol was pathetic defensively, and fisher couldnt stop rondo without a gun. And vujacic and Radmonovic were some of the dumbest and most pathetic defenders I've seen in the finals in a long time. Several times sasha left Ray Allen alone to double a marginal offensive player, and BAM Ray nails a 3, AGAIN. When, just when do you leave one of the best pure shooters in the game alone at the 3 pt line to double a marginal player? The lakers euros looked so bad on defense, I just couldnt blame PJ, thats what he has to work with. No amount of coaching can make up for stupidity and lack of skills of the players. And those laker euros were slow AND stupid on defense. Of course narrow minded suns fans would blame those failings on the coach, but not if that coach was PJ, I'll bet.

I am glad the celtics won, I picked them early in the playoffs(after the suns went fishin), the fans do have more class than most. And its nice to see my spur and laker fan buddies eating some humble pie. I just didnt want to see any of those jerseys this summer.

I agree with the majority of your post. I do blame PJ for being outcoached though. He never really made adjustments to Rivers' adjustments. How he could leave Vlade in for so long so many times just baffles me. He was a friggen turnstile the whole series. You are right on the money about the eoros' defensive mindset. They dont react instinctively. They just head for the guy with the ball in 2pt territory regardless of their scoring ability and completely forget the assassin on the 3pt line. Stupidity at it's best. I know we have butt heads on many topics here but i actually do respect your bball knowledge. It's obvious you have played the game. Last but not least. To all those who continue to campare Kobe to MJ as they are screaming there is no comparison, you are right on about the supporting casts. Who now wants to say Odom is equal to Pippen? Paxon to Fisher? Rodman to Radman? Kerr to Sasha. It's time to let it rest.

Good post.

 

[D-Dogg]

Basketball is a team game, MVP is NOT more important than the team concept. Im LOL at how many people seem to think one guy is a dominant factor in winning the championship. Micheal jordan needed ALOT of help to win, the simpleton view just has MJ winning games. In reality MJ wins ZIP without Pippen, and one more all star. Did MJ win ANYTHING without 2 other all stars and some nice bench depth? I am not a fan of Kobe Bryant, but to put it on one guy is a joke. Lamar choked, Gasol was pathetic defensively, and fisher couldnt stop rondo without a gun. And vujacic and Radmonovic were some of the dumbest and most pathetic defenders I've seen in the finals in a long time. Several times sasha left Ray Allen alone to double a marginal offensive player, and BAM Ray nails a 3, AGAIN. When, just when do you leave one of the best pure shooters in the game alone at the 3 pt line to double a marginal player? The lakers euros looked so bad on defense, I just couldnt blame PJ, thats what he has to work with. No amount of coaching can make up for stupidity and lack of skills of the players. And those laker euros were slow AND stupid on defense. Of course narrow minded suns fans would blame those failings on the coach, but not if that coach was PJ, I'll bet.

I am glad the celtics won, I picked them early in the playoffs(after the suns went fishin), the fans do have more class than most. And its nice to see my spur and laker fan buddies eating some humble pie. I just didnt want to see any of those jerseys this summer.

Very good post. Though I'll still wear Laker gear this summer. I'm also the kind of guy who will wear his team's gear the day after a horrible loss...like today, or after the Cards/Bears debacle last year. I guess I like to feel the pain, and flaunt the loss in the face of karma.

The Lakers got completely outplayed, and they couldn't figure out the Celtics defense. The Celtics also peaked and played by far their best basketball of the playoffs, especially defensively.

 

[btimsah]

Nobody is as good as Jordan was, as far as winning big playoff games by himself. He was also more consistent.

 

[nashman]

Yes I would say Pierce outplayed everyone and deserved MVP of the Finals. He brought it night in and night out on BOTH ends of the court, and was the heart and soul of that team. And like I said I was surprised how PJ got outcoached as he is usually on the other end of that. I was just saying that alot of the players for the Lakers were NOT clutch and didn't show up contrary to alot of Lakers fans on here saying they play fine under pressure...FALSE. The Lakers played like a bunch of young guys who weren't sure what to do when things got tuff.

 

[cobbler]

Yes I would say Pierce outplayed everyone and deserved MVP of the Finals. He brought it night in and night out on BOTH ends of the court, and was the heart and soul of that team. And like I said I was surprised how PJ got outcoached as he is usually on the other end of that. I was just saying that alot of the players for the Lakers were NOT clutch and didn't show up contrary to alot of Lakers fans on here saying they play fine under pressure...FALSE. The Lakers played like a bunch of young guys who weren't sure what to do when things got tuff.

The reason I posed the original question was in part to make a point how we judge players to different standards. I knew people would say those numbers were not up to the expectation of a MVP. The point is.... Kobe is always graded on a scale that is just not fair. Those numbers posted... were in fact... Pierces' numbers for the finals. As seen below, Kobes' are very similiar. Of course, stats don't take into account many factors and we could debate those all day. I just wanted to point out the disparity in standards on how Kobe is judged, rewarded, and blamed, in respect to other players.

PP KB

Mins 38 - 43
FG% .432 - .405
3p% .393 - .321
Reb 4.5 - 4.7
assists 6.3 - 5.0
steals 1.2 - 2.7
blocks .3 - .2
turnover 3.6 - 3.8
fouls 4.0 - 3.2
points 21.8 - 25.7


Very close indeed which would suggest as we all know now, the supporting casts, and especially the bench were the differences. Yet Pierce was brilliant and Kobe stunk it up....

 

[justAndy]

I won't bash Kobe for his stats - I WILL for his "leadership", his "I quit" vibe that I've seen a few times in the playoffs, his demanding a trade then backpedaling, his arrogance, his whining about every call that doesn't go his way.

 

[carrrnuttt]

The reason I posed the original question was in part to make a point how we judge players to different standards. I knew people would say those numbers were not up to the expectation of a MVP. The point is.... Kobe is always graded on a scale that is just not fair. Those numbers posted... were in fact... Pierces' numbers for the finals. As seen below, Kobes' are very similiar. Of course, stats don't take into account many factors and we could debate those all day. I just wanted to point out the disparity in standards on how Kobe is judged, rewarded, and blamed, in respect to other players.

PP KB

Mins 38 - 43
FG% .432 - .405
3p% .393 - .321
Reb 4.5 - 4.7
assists 6.3 - 5.0
steals 1.2 - 2.7
blocks .3 - .2
turnover 3.6 - 3.8
fouls 4.0 - 3.2
points 21.8 - 25.7


Very close indeed which would suggest as we all know now, the supporting casts, and especially the bench were the differences. Yet Pierce was brilliant and Kobe stunk it up....

You just can't go by stats. Paul Pierce's decision-making was lightyears better than Kobe's in this series. Pierce gave a sense that he knew when to drive and get fouls, when to shoot threes, and when to involve his teammates. That is a LOT more than can be said for supposedly the Lakers' "heart and soul."

The prevailing sentiment after the Finals for non-Kobe jockers around the League seems to be: He's a GREAT basketball player, just not a great basketball mind. At least not in-game.

And in that sense, even Rondo outplayed Kobe in this series, in my opinion.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

also pierce stepped up and was able to make kobe take tough shots

kobe was locking down on rajon rondo while vujacic/farmar were getting torched by allen and pierce was having his way with whomever

 

[Covert Rain]

Basketball is a team game, MVP is NOT more important than the team concept. Im LOL at how many people seem to think one guy is a dominant factor in winning the championship. Micheal jordan needed ALOT of help to win, the simpleton view just has MJ winning games. In reality MJ wins ZIP without Pippen, and one more all star. Did MJ win ANYTHING without 2 other all stars and some nice bench depth? I am not a fan of Kobe Bryant, but to put it on one guy is a joke. Lamar choked, Gasol was pathetic defensively, and fisher couldnt stop rondo without a gun. And vujacic and Radmonovic were some of the dumbest and most pathetic defenders I've seen in the finals in a long time. Several times sasha left Ray Allen alone to double a marginal offensive player, and BAM Ray nails a 3, AGAIN. When, just when do you leave one of the best pure shooters in the game alone at the 3 pt line to double a marginal player? The lakers euros looked so bad on defense, I just couldnt blame PJ, thats what he has to work with. No amount of coaching can make up for stupidity and lack of skills of the players. And those laker euros were slow AND stupid on defense. Of course narrow minded suns fans would blame those failings on the coach, but not if that coach was PJ, I'll bet.

I am glad the celtics won, I picked them early in the playoffs(after the suns went fishin), the fans do have more class than most. And its nice to see my spur and laker fan buddies eating some humble pie. I just didnt want to see any of those jerseys this summer.

I am lol at anybody who thinks the Bulls could have won any titles with MJ playing like crap. That to me is a simpleton view. Ofcourse MJ needed help. Ofcourse you need a team effort to win a game. However, if your telling me that the Bulls would have won titles had MJ played like crap in those games then your kidding yourself.

When your team is built around and depends on a star player, your chances of winning the game seriously dwindle when that player doesn't play well. It's realistic to think your team could pull out a game here or there. However, to expect a team to win a entire series with your MVP not playing well the entire series is a impossible task.

So ofcourse there were many reasons (coaching bench, play etc) that contributed to the Lakers losing the series, some of that IMO could have been overcome had Kobe had a more Jordanesque performance. The point being that with Kobe disappearing they had ZERO chance. That's why some of the articles were basically saying.

Very close indeed which would suggest as we all know now, the supporting casts, and especially the bench were the differences. Yet Pierce was brilliant and Kobe stunk it up....

The problem with that view is that Kobe is a future hall of famer and viewed by many as a Super Star and best player in the league. So I think it's perfectly fair to hold Kobe to a different standard then your average NBA player. Also, how clutch a player was doesn't show up on the stat sheet either but that goes along way in determining how well a player performed.

Here is an analogy. There are players in MLB who have a pattern for hitting a HR when nobody is on base and when the game it out of reach. That player puts up big numbers but not when it counts. Now compare that to another player who has the same HR total but produces RBIs and game winning hits. It's very reasonable to consider the "clutch" hitter brilliant and the other a stinker in a playoff series.

I think that surprised me more then anything is Kobe didn't seem to know when to turn it on or couldn't. Phil Jackson mentioned it after one of the quarters.

 

[nowagimp]

Very good post. Though I'll still wear Laker gear this summer. I'm also the kind of guy who will wear his team's gear the day after a horrible loss...like today, or after the Cards/Bears debacle last year. I guess I like to feel the pain, and flaunt the loss in the face of karma.

The Lakers got completely outplayed, and they couldn't figure out the Celtics defense. The Celtics also peaked and played by far their best basketball of the playoffs, especially defensively.

the need to double in the post and to double pierce was a killer. Suns fans should remember how the arrival of KT led to a drop in opponents 3 pt % of 6%! The laker/cletics matchup was doomed as no one could handle garnett and there was no real shotblocker to keep pierce from driving. Bynum could be that piece, but I dont think this laker team had a chance, except injury, to beat this celtics team. Basketball is funny, favorable matchups make the game easy to coach. The lakers needed radmonivich and vujacic to get the spacing as walton, farmar, turiaf etc could not make the celtics defense honor the outside shot, so they collapse into the lane area. With the celtics collapsing into the lane area, its kind of hopeless. I think PJ did take a gamble in playing 2 poor defenders, but he did it so kobe would have more room to operate in the lane. The simple thing for doc to do on offense was play the inside out game, abuse the post players force the double and kick it out to the shooters. The celtics 3pt shooting by posey, allen, house was just deadly in this series, as these guys were often left open by the need of the lakers to double. Maybe a healthy ariza and bynum change that need to double some. To me its not about PJ being outcoached, his pieces on the "chessboard of basketball" just didnt match up with Rivers pieces. But, you gotta give kudos to Doc for doing what was needed to win. I just dont think PJ was somehow stupid or outcoached. When you gotta play gasol, radman, and vujacic in your rotation to get the scoring/spacing, its gonna hurt on defense. And using walton, farmar, ariza and turiaf doesnt get you to the point where you can out defense the celtics, not even close. With Kobe + those scrubs you WILL nedd to outdefense the celtics as your scoring is gonna take a big hit taking out radman, vujacic and gasol.

 

[nowagimp]

The reason I posed the original question was in part to make a point how we judge players to different standards. I knew people would say those numbers were not up to the expectation of a MVP. The point is.... Kobe is always graded on a scale that is just not fair. Those numbers posted... were in fact... Pierces' numbers for the finals. As seen below, Kobes' are very similiar. Of course, stats don't take into account many factors and we could debate those all day. I just wanted to point out the disparity in standards on how Kobe is judged, rewarded, and blamed, in respect to other players.

PP KB

Mins 38 - 43
FG% .432 - .405
3p% .393 - .321
Reb 4.5 - 4.7
assists 6.3 - 5.0
steals 1.2 - 2.7
blocks .3 - .2
turnover 3.6 - 3.8
fouls 4.0 - 3.2
points 21.8 - 25.7


Very close indeed which would suggest as we all know now, the supporting casts, and especially the bench were the differences. Yet Pierce was brilliant and Kobe stunk it up....

Yup, and you can bet kobe had to get his against a much better defense! I take nothing away from pierce, glkad to see him, KG and Ray get their rings, but the stat comparisons are hardly valid as pierce had to g inside against odom radman(HAHAHA) and gasol(HAHAHA) while kobe had to deal with KG, perkins and PJ brown, and posey. To me the MVP was the celtics defense, and KG was huge in limiting scoring in the paint and grabbing boards to limit second shots. The celtics on the other hand had tons of second shots, I though they were playoing the marion suns at times, getting multiple oboards on a number of occasions.

If I would criticize kobe, its in his rebuking of his teammates for their mistakes in public, and how that may have effected their confidence and the team chemistry. And a few times he continued to rebuke them as HIS man came down and scored.

 

[nowagimp]

I am lol at anybody who thinks the Bulls could have won any titles with MJ playing like crap. That to me is a simpleton view. Ofcourse MJ needed help. Ofcourse you need a team effort to win a game. However, if your telling me that the Bulls would have won titles had MJ played like crap in those games then your kidding yourself.

When your team is built around and depends on a star player, your chances of winning the game seriously dwindle when that player doesn't play well. It's realistic to think your team could pull out a game here or there. However, to expect a team to win en entire series with your MVP not playing well the entire serious is an impossible task.

So ofcourse there were many reasons (coaching bench, play etc) that contributed to the Lakers losing the series, some of that IMO could have been overcome had Kobe had a more Jordanesque performance. The point being that with Kobe disappearing they had ZERO chance. That's why some of the articles were basically saying.



The problem with that view is that Kobe is a future hall of famer and viewed by many as a Super Star and best player in the league. So I think it's perfectly fair to hold Kobe to a different standard then your average NBA player. Also, how clutch a player was doesn't show up on the stat sheet either but that goes along way in determining how well a player performed.

Here is an analogy. There are players in MLB who have a pattern for hitting a HR when nobody is on base and when the game it out of reach. That player puts up big numbers but not win it counts. Now compare that to another player who has the same HR run total but produces RBI and game winning hits. It's very reasonable to consider the "clutch" hitter brilliant and the other a stinker.

If MJ played like crap he wouldnt be an MVP, Oh wait he shot 35% against the jazz while getting his last ring, thats 5% worse than kobe did this year, practically an ocean. Im LOL how you use twisted logic to the team game concept. Well if my man played like crap we wouldnt win either. Jordan played very well for his first 6 years, tore up in fact in the playoffs, yet NADA, no ring. But in '98 he shot 35% against the jazz, almost a barbosa percentage, and they won.

Jordan was a great player, one of the best ever. But he always had a fine supporting cast on those title teams, all star PF, pippen, a bench full of good role players. Im not arguing tht kobe is the equal of michael Jordan, just laughing at the superstar wins game by himself mentality.

 

[tobiazz]

If MJ played like crap he wouldnt be an MVP, Oh wait he shot 35% against the jazz while getting his last ring, thats 5% worse than kobe did this year, practically an ocean. Im LOL how you use twisted logic to the team game concept. Well if my man played like crap we wouldnt win either. Jordan played very well for his first 6 years, tore up in fact in the playoffs, yet NADA, no ring. But in '98 he shot 35% against the jazz, almost a barbosa percentage, and they won.

Jordan was a great player, one of the best ever. But he always had a fine supporting cast on those title teams, all star PF, pippen, a bench full of good role players. Im not arguing tht kobe is the equal of michael Jordan, just laughing at the superstar wins game by himself mentality.

According to this, Jordan shot 42.7% (not 35%) for that 98 Jazz Series and around 45% for the prior Jazz Series.

EDIT: and according to my calculations, Kobe shot 42.2%

EDIT2: oops, Kobe shot 40.5%

 

[Covert Rain]

If MJ played like crap he wouldnt be an MVP, Oh wait he shot 35% against the jazz while getting his last ring, thats 5% worse than kobe did this year, practically an ocean. Im LOL how you use twisted logic to the team game concept. Well if my man played like crap we wouldnt win either. Jordan played very well for his first 6 years, tore up in fact in the playoffs, yet NADA, no ring. But in '98 he shot 35% against the jazz, almost a barbosa percentage, and they won.

Jordan was a great player, one of the best ever. But he always had a fine supporting cast on those title teams, all star PF, pippen, a bench full of good role players. Im not arguing tht kobe is the equal of michael Jordan, just laughing at the superstar wins game by himself mentality.

Check your numbers....they are wrong. Jordon shot .427% that series.

Also, I am LMAO at your rebuff. Since last years MVP had a fantastic regular season, became MVP and played like crap in the finals. I was referring to the last 2 season MVPs and how they performed in the Finals. A player playing like crap in the finals would mean nothing more then he he played like crap for a series. It wouldn't mean he wasn't an MVP.

Let me clarify for you. No one person can win an NBA title by themselves no matter how good. You need some level of help. However, you can't take the best player on your team out of the equation (Jordan, Magic, Duncan etc..) and win a title. So, your missing the boat. Nobody is saying a Super Star can win the game by himself. It's a "duh" statement to say they need help. I think everybody knows that. It's just teams are dependent on their star power to win a title.

If one of your bench players has a bad series you can still win the title. If your star does...your done. Subtract that Superstar from your team and your team has no shot. If by subtracting it means a player going down with injury, simply not showing up or getting shut down, the concept is the same. No level of help is going to make a difference in that scenario. So, by saying that Kobe disappearing in the series meant the Lakers had no shot....that is sound logic.

Your contention is that a Superstar cannot win it alone and I agree. My contention is that a team cannot win without it's Superstar showing up in the series. Pretty simple logic and that's exactly what many of those articles were getting at.

 

[nowagimp]

According to this, Jordan shot 42.7% (not 35%) for that 98 Jazz Series and around 45% for the prior Jazz Series.

EDIT: and according to my calculations, Kobe shot 42.2%

OK looks like MJ shot 42.7% against the 16th best defensive team in the NBA(16/29), a team that allowed 44% FG's to all players in the 1998 regualr season. In Kobes defense, he played against the #1 defensive team in the NBA and shot 40.5% according to ESPN against the celts , but dished out 3 more asst a game.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=0110

since your stats dont agree with ESPN on Kobe, not sure whats up with MJ. I cant yet find stats on MJ 1998 finals data.

 

[Covert Rain]

OK looks like MJ shot 42.7% against the 16th best defensive team in the NBA(16/29), a team that allowed 44% FG's to all players in the 1998 regualr season. In Kobes defense, he played against the #1 defensive team in the NBA and shot 40.5% according to ESPN against the celts , but dished out 3 more asst a game.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=0110

since your stats dont agree with ESPN on Kobe, not sure whats up with MJ. I cant yet find stats on MJ 1998 finals data.

Here you go.

http://www.nba.com/jordan/mj9798.html

FINALS STATS
YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% FT% OFF DEF TOT APG SPG BPG PPG
1998 Chi 6 6 41.7 .427 .814 1.5 2.5 4.0 2.3 1.83 0.67 33.5

Oh and by the way don't go there. MJ had to deal with a different era of hand checking, no zone defense and an illegal defense that was much loser then it is today. Today's rule changes favor offense. If Jordan could play by those rules his numbers would have been better. That was even coming from Phil Jackson himself.

 

[carrrnuttt]

OK looks like MJ shot 42.7% against the 16th best defensive team in the NBA(16/29), a team that allowed 44% FG's to all players in the 1998 regualr season. In Kobes defense, he played against the #1 defensive team in the NBA and shot 40.5% according to ESPN against the celts , but dished out 3 more asst a game.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=0110

since your stats dont agree with ESPN on Kobe, not sure whats up with MJ. I cant yet find stats on MJ 1998 finals data.

Wow.

You are just getting annoying.



How about we keep this simple?

1. MJ was THE single biggest factor on ALL of his teams' Championship runs.
2. Kobe was not.
3. Kobe had a chance to be that this year, but instead he does a rendition of the "bitchy wife" routine, everytime he was on the bench with his teammates, if you believe Schilling's blog.

So until #1 also holds true even ONCE for Kobe, let's end this bashing of MJ in an attempt to make Kobe look better, K? THEY DO NOT BELONG IN THE SAME SENTENCE.

It's one thing to just hate on MJ, but to do so while touting Ko-ME is just downright *insert pejorative here*.

 

[tobiazz]

OK looks like MJ shot 42.7% against the 16th best defensive team in the NBA(16/29), a team that allowed 44% FG's to all players in the 1998 regualr season. In Kobes defense, he played against the #1 defensive team in the NBA and shot 40.5% according to ESPN against the celts , but dished out 3 more asst a game.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=0110

since your stats dont agree with ESPN on Kobe, not sure whats up with MJ. I cant yet find stats on MJ 1998 finals data.

Can't find stats on 1998 MJ? I linked to them in my post.

And on the Kobe stats, I forgot to tally in game 6

 

[Covert Rain]

When Phil Jackson was asked who was better Kobe or MJ.

"I never asked Michael to be a playmaker. That's the greatest player that I've ever had, that I could consider the greatest player in the game, and I never asked him to be a playmaker in those terms. I asked him to be playmaker when he was doubled or tripled. But Kobe has to set up the offense, to advance the ball, to read the defense, to make other players happy, and he's doing a great job of that."

Doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement to me. MJ = Greatest player he has ever had. Kobe = he's doing a great job. Again, they are not on the same planet.

 

[carrrnuttt]

When Phil Jackson was asked who was better Kobe or MJ.

"I never asked Michael to be a playmaker. That's the greatest player that I've ever had, that I could consider the greatest player in the game, and I never asked him to be a playmaker in those terms. I asked him to be playmaker when he was doubled or tripled. But Kobe has to set up the offense, to advance the ball, to read the defense, to make other players happy, and he's doing a great job of that."

Doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement to me. Again, they are not on the same planet.

That quote is very telling. Phil never HAD to ask Michael to be a playmaker. He became that when the situation required it. Kobe jockers would justify the second half of that quote as saying that "Kobe has more responsibilty thrust upon him," when in fact, Jordan had just as much responsibility for his team. He just didn't have to get asked.

And ROFL at the "to make other players happy" part. Yeah, happy enough to roll their eyes at your toddler-esque sideline antics.

 

[D-Dogg]

Uhm, that quote was a compliment to kobe. Go get the context around it. I remember when that was made..it was a compliment about how much of the offense Kobe was responsible for.

 

[D-Dogg]

So who's the better all-around player, Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan?

One might want to ask Phil Jackson since he's the only one to coach both players.

Comparing the two players, the current Lakers and former Chicago Bulls coach said Saturday that Bryant has demonstrated a better all-around game than any other player he has coached -- including Michael Jordan.

"Kobe's become the floor leader of a basketball team that was kind of looking for that nature of a player, who could not only be a scorer, but also be a playmaker or consistently make big plays at critical times," Jackson said. "So it was very important for Kobe to step into that role that he was envisioned at. I've always held the bar up very high for Kobe, and he's not only reached that bar, but he's jumping over the top of it right now.

"And I think it's the best that I've ever seen a player of mine play with an overall court game. I'm asking him to do so much, and he's accomplishing it."
Jackson was quickly asked for a clarification. That includes Michael Jordan?

"I never asked Michael to be a playmaker," Jackson said. "That's the greatest player that I've ever had, that I could consider the greatest player in the game, and I never asked him to be a playmaker in those terms. I asked him to be playmaker when he was doubled or tripled. But Kobe has to set up the offense, to advance the ball, to read the defense, to make other players happy, and he's doing a great job of that."

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2001/2001/0527/1205474.html


Perhaps us "Kobe jockers" have a better handle on this stuff.