Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[602 Native]

What are you so aggressive when someone answered your question in good faith?

If you don’t follow soccer, consider the tens of thousands of basketball fans who followed LeBron and Kevin Durant through their many career stops. This isn’t something completely unknown, bro.

But it’s still weird that you won’t say “I like the Cardinals first and if Kyler moved to New Orleans I’d never think about him again.” That question is pretty straightforward.

I’m a Cardinals fan first; my support for Kyler Murray is entirely dependent on his ability to contribute to the success of the team. When Josh Rosen was traded, I tracked his career no more than I follow Zach Allen.

The only Cardinal alumnus that comes first for me is Jim Dray.

Cool story I owe you nothing on my fandom.

 

[Stout]

What are you so aggressive when someone answered your question in good faith?

If you don’t follow soccer, consider the tens of thousands of basketball fans who followed LeBron and Kevin Durant through their many career stops. This isn’t something completely unknown, bro.

But it’s still weird that you won’t say “I like the Cardinals first and if Kyler moved to New Orleans I’d never think about him again.” That question is pretty straightforward.

I’m a Cardinals fan first; my support for Kyler Murray is entirely dependent on his ability to contribute to the success of the team. When Josh Rosen was traded, I tracked his career no more than I follow Zach Allen.

The only Cardinal alumnus that comes first for me is Jim Dray.

Same. Except it's John "Red" Skelton for me

It's quite easy to say I'm a Cards first fan.

 

[Ronin]

Sure you don't

See how easy it is to dispute this.

Because you kept this nonsense going. I’m giving you another warning. Warning #2.

 

[kerouac9]

Cool story I owe you nothing on my fandom.

I don't know if you intend this, but your posts are coming off as extremely rude to this reader.

People will definitely read into your refusal to respond tho.

 

[602 Native]

I don't know if you intend this, but your posts are coming off as extremely rude to this reader.

People will definitely read into your refusal to respond tho.

At this point its a game for me so there's that.

 

[Ronin]

Kyler Burd

@AZCard_BurdsEye


In 2020, Kyler Murray's best rushing season, he carried the ball 133 times for 819 yards, averaging 6.2 yards per carry. In 2024, Murray has carried the ball 36 times so far for 325 yards, averaging 9.0 yards per carry. That average is thanks in large part to two of the longest rushes of his career, both touchdowns. A 50-yarder against San Fran and most recently the 44-yarder against the Chargers. (His longest was a 57-yard explosion in a Christmas matchup with the Colts in 2021)

 

[kerouac9]

Kyler Burd
@AZCard_BurdsEye


In 2020, Kyler Murray's best rushing season, he carried the ball 133 times for 819 yards, averaging 6.2 yards per carry. In 2024, Murray has carried the ball 36 times so far for 325 yards, averaging 9.0 yards per carry. That average is thanks in large part to two of the longest rushes of his career, both touchdowns. A 50-yarder against San Fran and most recently the 44-yarder against the Chargers. (His longest was a 57-yard explosion in a Christmas matchup with the Colts in 2021)

Kyler Burd bringing the heat again to his 2700 followers who don't watch the games or have access to PFR.

 

[tennis-player]

Kyler Burd
@AZCard_BurdsEye


In 2020, Kyler Murray's best rushing season, he carried the ball 133 times for 819 yards, averaging 6.2 yards per carry. In 2024, Murray has carried the ball 36 times so far for 325 yards, averaging 9.0 yards per carry. That average is thanks in large part to two of the longest rushes of his career, both touchdowns. A 50-yarder against San Fran and most recently the 44-yarder against the Chargers. (Hi

s longest was a 57-yard explosion in a Christmas matchup with the Colts in 2021)

So are you saying that Kyler should be a running back? The concern is his passing.

 

[Chopper0080]

Kyler Burd bringing the heat again to his 2700 followers who don't watch the games or have access to PFR.

I would rather he post this than his actual thoughts.

 

[slanidrac16]

And there it is.

So having a favorite player on the team equates to not being a Cards fan.

Unlike you I live in AZ. Family has been here since 1922. Please don't be that guy.

Answer the question. It’s simple. What comes first?

 

[slanidrac16]

Do you dislike K1 because hes black?

Surprised this doesn’t get a warning…

 

[slanidrac16]

I have zero to prove to you my man. You just don't seem to understand that which seems to be a pattern.

It is on brand for you though to question someones fandom of K1 due to your zealous dislike of the dude.

Glad you are monitoring my posts which again shows how much it bothers you that K1 has fans.

Seeing K1 take the team on a game winning drive as time expires must truly hurt your delicate sensibilities.

You’re out there dude. Pointing out shortcomings of a player doesn’t mean anybody hates him, wants to fail or get hurt.
You don’t seem to mind pointing out shortcomings of players that “ appear “ to hold back Kyler.

 

[BritCard]

Detrimental in comparison to what? I’m 1000% sure he’s better in this offense than Clayton Tune would be, who is the obvious alternative.

Detrimental in comparison to most other QBs in the league. Detrimental when considering his own peak ability. Detrimental considering the talent he has to work with.

The offense is operating at Josh Dobbs levels with more talent.

 

[BritCard]

I have zero to prove to you my man. You just don't seem to understand that which seems to be a pattern.

It is on brand for you though to question someones fandom of K1 due to your zealous dislike of the dude.

Glad you are monitoring my posts which again shows how much it bothers you that K1 has fans.

Seeing K1 take the team on a game winning drive as time expires must truly hurt your delicate sensibilities.

I'm not monitoring your posts dude, you're just visibly all over every post that criticises Kyler.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

Detrimental in comparison to most other QBs in the league. Detrimental when considering his own peak ability. Detrimental considering the talent he has to work with.

The offense is operating at Josh Dobbs levels with more talent.

I would disagree, there are at least 64 QBs on rosters right now, most of them are worse than Kyler; and after a couple of games, Dobbs was worse than Dobbs (repeated in Minnesota).

So is Kyler executing well enough? I would say most of us think not, but detrimental isn't accurate since the run game is good, the play action is executed well, and we have run a 2-4 minute offense successfully. Any qb considered detrimental wouldn't even hold a roster spot for long, less hold the starting position.

 

[vince56]

Here's the reality of Kyler as a passer so far this year as of right now, pre-Dolphins game:

Passing yards: 19th
Yards/attempt: 22nd
Completion percentage: 15th
TDs: 11th
QBR: 5th
Classic QB rating: 12th

Source: https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/table/passing/sort/passingYards/dir/desc

Pretty mid, Dalton-line type of stats. Not terrible, but not going to win 9-10 games either. My feeling is this is not sustainable.

He needs to improve and stop being so risk averse. I want biscuits, risk it a little. His rushing absolutely is amazing and we love him for it, but he needs to become a more consistent and aggressive passer.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Here's the reality of Kyler as a passer so far this year as of right now, pre-Dolphins game:

Passing yards: 19th
Yards/attempt: 22nd
Completion percentage: 15th
TDs: 11th
QBR: 5th
Classic QB rating: 12th

Source: https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/table/passing/sort/passingYards/dir/desc

Pretty mid, Dalton-line type of stats. Not terrible, but not going to win 9-10 games either. My feeling is this is not sustainable.

He needs to improve and stop being so risk averse. I want biscuits, risk it a little. His rushing absolutely is amazing and we love him for it, but he needs to become a more consistent and aggressive passer.

This is a fair post Vince, thank you. A couple of things:

1. If we're the #3 (or whatever) rushing offense in the league, I'm not super concerned about the volume of Murray's passing yards. But, I agree that we want him to be more efficient. Higher than #12 in classic QB rating, and we want his YPC to be over 7.0 too. So both of those things need to improve. Agree.

2. What will help both of the issues in point one is having a real, honest to goodness NFL WR1 (we don't have one at the moment). I know the Murray detractors like to say "oh you're just making excuses", but I think this one is valid. I talk all the time about how Murray "improved as a passer" when we added Dhop in 2020 (and the stats bear it out big time). It's all I ask that the organization provide to him. If that's MHJ in five games or ten games or 15 games from now, great. Let's all be a little patient then and wait for MHJ to get up to speed. Once he does I think we'll see Murray magically become a more efficient/effective passer.

Is that fair too Vince?

 

[kerouac9]

Pretty mid, Dalton-line type of stats. Not terrible, but not going to win 9-10 games either. My feeling is this is not sustainable.

His rushing stats matter here tho. I think Lamar had similar passing stats last season as an MVP.

Vegas was real smart setting Kyler’s passing yardage o/u at 3385.5. Seemed like a layup if he stayed healthy at the time…

 

[BritCard]

I would disagree, there are at least 64 QBs on rosters right now, most of them are worse than Kyler; and after a couple of games, Dobbs was worse than Dobbs (repeated in Minnesota).

So is Kyler executing well enough? I would say most of us think not, but detrimental isn't accurate since the run game is good, the play action is executed well, and we have run a 2-4 minute offense successfully. Any qb considered detrimental wouldn't even hold a roster spot for long, less hold the starting position.

Detrimental means "to cause harm". To make something lesser than what it would otherwise be. This offense, as everyone here expected before the season along with many NFL analysts, should be averaging 25 points a game. MHJ, a player touted as the best WR prospect since Megatron, is performing worse that Ohio state WR's that themselves say are worse than him.

The main reason for that is Kyler. Kyler is detrimental to the optimal operation of this offense.

 

[kerouac9]

The main reason for that is Kyler. Kyler is detrimental to the optimal operation of this offense.

Don’t compare him to the almighty; compare him to the alternative. He’s around average — I don’t think Drake Maye or Lawrence makes this offense better.

 

[BritCard]

This is a fair post Vince, thank you. A couple of things:

1. If we're the #3 (or whatever) rushing offense in the league, I'm not super concerned about the volume of Murray's passing yards. But, I agree that we want him to be more efficient. Higher than #12 in classic QB rating, and we want his YPC to be over 7.0 too. So both of those things need to improve. Agree.

2. What will help both of the issues in point one is having a real, honest to goodness NFL WR1 (we don't have one at the moment). I know the Murray detractors like to say "oh you're just making excuses", but I think this one is valid. I talk all the time about how Murray "improved as a passer" when we added Dhop in 2020 (and the stats bear it out big time). It's all I ask the organization provide to him. If that's MHJ in five games or ten games or 15 games from now, great. Let's all be a little patient then and wait for MHJ to get up to speed. Once he does I think we'll see Murray magically become a more efficient/effective passer.

Is that fair too Vince?

Chicken and Egg.

Marv was drafted to be the #1 WR, but Kyler has to be able to pass to him to do that.

When people say this I think what they really mean is that Kyler needs a possession receiver who can win 1 on 1 so Kyler can just throw up up in his general vicinity and let him make a play, ala Hopkins.

Well any QB can do that.

 

[BritCard]

Don’t compare him to the almighty; compare him to the alternative. He’s around average — I don’t think Drake Maye or Lawrence makes this offense better.

I do, but why are they the only alternatives?

At the moment there is no alternative anyway, we are stuck with him, so the only comparison is what he should be with what he is.

 

[tennis-player]

Don’t compare him to the almighty; compare him to the alternative. He’s around average — I don’t think Drake Maye or Lawrence makes this offense better.

Drake Maye is an unknown. I think Trevor Lawrence makes this offensive better, as a quarterback who will stand in the pocket and throw downfield. He may not be a better quarterback, but he fits this offense better than Kyler.

 

[kerouac9]

Drake Maye is an unknown. I think Trevor Lawrence makes this offensive better, as a quarterback who will stand in the pocket and throw downfield. He may not be a better quarterback, but he fits this offense better than Kyler.

I dunno. He’s arguably a better passer than Kyler’s median performance, but it’s not like we’re running Norv Turner‘s offense, either.

I think Conner looks like a top 7 RB because of Kyler and the system.

 

[vince56]

This is a fair post Vince, thank you. A couple of things:

1. If we're the #3 (or whatever) rushing offense in the league, I'm not super concerned about the volume of Murray's passing yards. But, I agree that we want him to be more efficient. Higher than #12 in classic QB rating, and we want his YPC to be over 7.0 too. So both of those things need to improve. Agree.

2. What will help both of the issues in point one is having a real, honest to goodness NFL WR1 (we don't have one at the moment). I know the Murray detractors like to say "oh you're just making excuses", but I think this one is valid. I talk all the time about how Murray "improved as a passer" when we added Dhop in 2020 (and the stats bear it out big time). It's all I ask that the organization provide to him. If that's MHJ in five games or ten games or 15 games from now, great. Let's all be a little patient then and wait for MHJ to get up to speed. Once he does I think we'll see Murray magically become a more efficient/effective passer.

Is that fair too Vince?

I agree, I just think something is different about Kyler this year. He's second guessing himself and doesn't seem willing to throw a contested pass unless he has to. He seems shaky due to the terrible protection too. The Kurt Warner breakdown the other day galvanized what I thought I've been seeing this year. Yards don't matter as much as TDs, points. I want to see him open it up a bit, but you're right there is no DHop on the team. Marvin may get there, but people forget it takes 2-3 years to really develop as an NFL WR. We were spoiled with Boldin and Fitz, but that was also 20 years ago and we haven't seen anyone close to that quality in a rookie WR since.