Amare - Likely Destinations

[Blackification]

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[JerkFace]

In what way is it not impossible? It's questionable whether New Orleans would trade Chandler (and salary filler) for Stoudemire straight up. Now you want them to include West for Lopez and Tucker?

It's about as impossible as it gets.

West for Stat is relatively even and NO are looking to dump Chandlers salary. This trade saves them tons of money and doesn't make them any worse. Like I said, probably not likely, but definitely not as outlandish as you are trying to make it.

 

[slinslin]

And West is flatout a worse player, why do that, what is the point?

 

[JerkFace]

And West is flatout a worse player, why do that, what is the point?

If the Suns are resigned to trading stat then getting the most value for him is all we can hope for. Notice I didn't say equal value, because that is unlikely since the league has all the leverage.
It has gotten to the point were debating whether or not to trade Stat is not the issue. Kerr seems to have decided to trade him so I am dealing with the reality of the situation.

 

[SirStefan32]

And West is flatout a worse player, why do that, what is the point?

He makes a lot less than Stoudemire, defends better, doesn't have a bad knee, and doesn't whine about not being the man. It's never going to happen and NO just isn't gonna do it, but it would be a steal for the Suns.

 

[overseascardfan]

Detroit would be absolutely stupid to do that trade. So would Charlotte.

You again, constantly criticizing everyone's post without discussing why you disagree or why you are slamming the post.

Well let's look at it from CHA's standpoint. They have been trying to trade Felton all year, Okafor is not as good as Stoudamire so you can't say CHA is getting ripped off. CHA could trade Diaw & Bell to NY like it seemed they would a couple of months ago or wait until the offseason to make a deal. Stoudamire would give them some scoring punch they lost with Richardson.

As for the DET trade, Shaq is coming off the books next year which is what DET is looking for. He is an all-star sub and is having a productive year. Rasheed is having a sub par year and is a FA at the end of the year so DET gets something for him but still will get their wish of clearing cap room for 2010.

Both trades are fair in my opinion and would be better than getting scrubs from teams like MIA or CHI for Amare who just so happens to be an AS starter and is still pretty young and productive.

 

[nowagimp]

That sure isn't how I saw it. In the first game, the Suns did go to Stoudemire against Azibuke, and he didn't do anything. In the second game, Stoudemire made up his mind to be assertive and go quickly, before the defense could set itself. That was more effective, but still an inefficient offensive strategy: Stoudemire needed 18 shots for his 19 points, compared to the entire team needing only 90 shots for 115.

Stoudemire was unable to exploit the Azibuke matchup in either game, even though the Suns gave him plenty of opportunities and he did, to his credit, put forth more effort in the rematch.

Well in last nights game azibuke was -17, amare was +10 and shaq was -13. What I saw was that amare was more effective when shaq went to the bench, and mark jackson( a pretty good PG himself) even commented on the spacing changing for the better, it was obvious. He commented that it opened up when shaq went to the bench and that was when amare pretty much made nelson pull azibuke from his defensive assignment with amare. The suns didnt even exploit that matchup in the first game, they went to shaq alot more. Bottom line was when shaq went out the suns ran and scored effectively in transition and that was the difference. After nelson took azibuke off amare, the suns went to the best matchup, Hill against whatever small guard nellie put on him. And hill was dynamite on the fast break, but the suns transition defense was terrible with shaq in there, the warriors just ran around him, and he struggled to score inside on biedrens or turiaf. Thats what I saw.

 

[PhxGametime]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3890478




http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=amaredealscenario-090207

I can deal with that. If just means that Larry Hughes is back in the rotation, unless Kirk, Derick and Ben use just a three man rotation since Kirk plays the 1 and 2 and Hunter is the 4th guy only when needed. This would make me really happy. Gooden has not seen much time lately and Simmions is just a throw in, so the Bulls are really short 1 player from this.

So in this Chad Ford article - I didn't read any of it (so maybe I'll go actually read it after posting this) but just looked at the potential Trade partners and ONLY the Nets would be giving the Suns a Draft Pick! They were pretty much all nothing but cap space, maybe 1 young piece, and no freaking Draft picks!! I've already read that the Suns want to cut salary (expected it) but what happened to getting Draft Pick(s)??


I will attempt to calm down now... lol

 

[devilalum]

Why should I not believe that this team will become the new Clippers?

I try to give Sarver the benefit of the doubt but he just doesn't seem to have the money to maintain a high payroll over a long period like some other owners and he also hasn't shown any ability to hire and or trust quality basketball people to make good decisions.

Trading Amare will save the Suns money but I will be extremely surprised if it makes them better. IMO the Suns are on the verge of sucking for a long time.

 

[HooverDam]

All of those trades with Chicago are AWFUL! They have no one worth having other than Rose and Gordon and they're untouchable. You really want to give up a 1st or 2nd All NBA player for freakin' Tyrus Thomas? Lets get real here folks.

Any deal the Suns make needs to have 1. a future All Star in it, 2. filler in the way of expiring contracts, 3. picks.

The Chicago trade fails on rule #1.

Yeah Im not following either, LB has a 23.7 PER and his defensive PER is the best of the guards on the suns, LOL! Yeah the suns can trade him for a small defensive PG who cant dish or shoot consistently. And as for Wilcox, he's terrible, makes amare look like a model of consistency. If you dont like lazy, WTF are you even considering wilcox for? Sometimes I think people think theses guys will "get religion" on changing their weaknesses after 6 years or more in the league, it aint gonna happen.

Salaries have to match. Wilcox is an expiring deal and would just be in there to make the salaries match and be a big body for the time being since losing Amare hurts front court depth.

1. Hill would retire before playing for OKC.

2. Hill is pretty much the best role player the Suns have.

1. Grant Hill is the ultimate professional, I cant see him doing that.

2. So? Is holding on to him the key to a title? Heck is it even the difference in making the playoffs or not? I love the guy, but we can't let sentimentality rule the day.

 

[carey]

1. Grant Hill is the ultimate professional, I cant see him doing that.

Hill has already said, and has been quoted, that if he's traded he retires. Period.

 

[elindholm]

Bottom line was when shaq went out the suns ran and scored effectively in transition and that was the difference. After nelson took azibuke off amare, the suns went to the best matchup, Hill against whatever small guard nellie put on him. And hill was dynamite on the fast break, but the suns transition defense was terrible with shaq in there, the warriors just ran around him, and he struggled to score inside on biedrens or turiaf. Thats what I saw.

Yes, I'd agree with that. But it wasn't so much Stoudemire taking advantage of Azibuke as it was Porter lucking out that the ineffective O'Neal took himself out of the game with foul trouble.

In other words, I'd say it was the absence of O'Neal that made the difference, not any particular emphasis on Stoudemire.

 

[HooverDam]

Hill has already said, and has been quoted, that if he's traded he retires. Period.

Then its an expiring deal for OKC, it doesn't really change anything.

 

[elindholm]

There is absolutely no reason to include Hill in a package with Stoudemire. If Stoudemire isn't enough to make the other team happy, eff 'em.

 

[devilalum]

Hill has already said, and has been quoted, that if he's traded he retires. Period.

Could the Suns trade Hill with the wink wink plan that he will be released and resign with the Suns after the waiting period?

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

You guys need to realize that you're more credible when you DONT put Hill's name anywhere in these scenarios.

It immediately gets dismissed, just accept it and change your gameplan.

 

[HooverDam]

There is absolutely no reason to include Hill in a package with Stoudemire. If Stoudemire isn't enough to make the other team happy, eff 'em.

Yes there is. Im going to pull my hair out if I have to post this again: Salaries have to match in the NBA/

If the Suns want say Jeff Green and another nice player, instead of just crap, you have to match that salary. Id like to get Earl Watson back in that trade as well, because it finally gives the Suns a good backup PG. Now Id also like to get Joe Smith back because the Suns would be w/ out a Power Forward, so once you add in those two pieces, you have to add in Hills contact to make it work.

Furthermore, if you do trade for Jeff Green, and keep Hill (like in an Amare for Watson, Wilcox, Green deal) youve got a huge logjam at the 3 w/ Green, Hill and Barnes. Unless you want to play Green at the 4 the rest of the year, which hey, would improve their lottery chances, so I guess its not too bad.

 

[elindholm]

Yes there is. Im going to pull my hair out if I have to post this again: Salaries have to match in the NBA/

Well duh, thanks for the tutorial. (Do you really think I don't know that?) But they could send Barnes or Tucker instead. Using Hill as salary filler is absurd.

Furthermore, if you do trade for Jeff Green, and keep Hill (like in an Amare for Watson, Wilcox, Green deal) youve got a huge logjam at the 3 w/ Green, Hill and Barnes.

No you don't. If Barnes is still around, you park his ass permanently on the bench, where it belongs. Then the second unit can go small with Wilcox/Green/Richardson/Barbosa/Watson, which is reasonably credible and probably wouldn't even get killed defensively.

 

[HooverDam]

Well duh, thanks for the tutorial. (Do you really think I don't know that?) But they could send Barnes or Tucker instead. Using Hill as salary filler is absurd.
.

It would have to be Barnes AND Tucker, not or. But Im not sure they'd want Tucker, he's got this year and next on his deal, though its cheap.

All Im trying to get at is, if the Suns have a good deal come along and they dont do it because they want to hang on to Hill for some reason they're crazy.

 

[elindholm]

It would have to be Barnes AND Tucker, not or.

I must have lost track of what package you're talking about. Green, Wilcox, and Watson come to $16.2 million. Stoudemire and Tucker are $16.1 million, Stoudemire and Barnes 16.3. What's the problem?

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Just stop talking about Hill and you wont be wasting everyone's time!!! Stop defending it too!

 

[HooverDam]

I must have lost track of what package you're talking about. Green, Wilcox, and Watson come to $16.2 million. Stoudemire and Tucker are $16.1 million, Stoudemire and Barnes 16.3. What's the problem?

Id like to get Joe Smith back as well this year since he's 1. expiring and 2. a PF and the Suns will be super thin there if they move Amare.

Just stop talking about Hill and you wont be wasting everyone's time!!! Stop defending it too!

Thanks Dad, I wouldn't know what to do with myself without you.

 

[SirStefan32]

Yes there is. Im going to pull my hair out if I have to post this again: Salaries have to match in the NBA/

If the Suns want say Jeff Green and another nice player, instead of just crap, you have to match that salary. Id like to get Earl Watson back in that trade as well, because it finally gives the Suns a good backup PG. Now Id also like to get Joe Smith back because the Suns would be w/ out a Power Forward, so once you add in those two pieces, you have to add in Hills contact to make it work.

Furthermore, if you do trade for Jeff Green, and keep Hill (like in an Amare for Watson, Wilcox, Green deal) youve got a huge logjam at the 3 w/ Green, Hill and Barnes. Unless you want to play Green at the 4 the rest of the year, which hey, would improve their lottery chances, so I guess its not too bad.

Thank you so much for reminding us that salaries have to match. I am sure we didn't know that until you decided to share your overwhelming wealth of knowledge with us.

Dragic, Dudley, Lopez, and even Barnes and Tucker could be used to match salaries, as well as a 2nd round pick.

Hill already said that if he is traded, he will retire. He also may be one of the best players this team has and the only good defender on the current roster.

 

[HooverDam]

Dragic, Dudley, Lopez, and even Barnes and Tucker could be used to match salaries, as well as a 2nd round pick.

Amare and Dragic for the 4 Ive discussed from OKC also works, but would OKC do that? Do they really want another PG, I doubt it. Furthermore, does Kerr and Co really want to admit so early that Dragic was a mistake?

 

[arwillan]

I don't think OKC wants to rent amare for a year and a half. What are the chances he even considers resigning with them?