Arizona Cardinals offseason thread 2022

[Ronin]

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[Stout]

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I hope he works wonders with RM. That would be a major boon.

 

[SoonerLou]

You know I have been a big advocate for Murray, but if Murray plays respectably over the last 6 games or so, we aren't all upset with the way the season ended.

I would have accepted a closer loss in the playoffs even, since it was there first trip collectively.

lol

You go so far to the other end as if you were ashamed to be such a big advocate. He had a 95 passer rating his last 3 games of the regular season. Thats with multiple drops (or OPI's) that cost us yards/points. And believe it or not the "statpadding" actually dropped his passer rating. We could have won the Seahawks and Colts games if we had better special teams/stops against the run. Its not that Murray didnt have his issues, but you're ignoring there were other issues as well

That Rams game disaster would have negated all that around here even if the final games were "respectable"

Dont say respectable. Just say you wish he was great. Cause if he were that would give you and others a safe space about this franchise.

Sidenote: No more expect terrible loss predictions next season. Major cringe.

 

[Ronin]

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[DVontel]

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[SoonerLou]

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Kyler scrubbing his sm and then the mort report destroying him has really absolved Keim of the blame he'd be getting. Made Keim the good guy (or lesser evil) in this ordeal.

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[slanidrac16]

Pretty much what Ron said.


You gotta lower your standards for RBs. There’s no way you can expect these guys to play all 17 games for years without injury. I would understand if he was like CMC missing most of the season, but a RB should not get dinged(no pun intended) for missing 2-4 games a season.

Correct. The person that should get dinged is Keim. We went into this season with a 3rd and 4th back that touched the ball 1 time in two years.
We had no one to fall back on ( or had the confidence in) to put in a game situation. So it fell on Conner’s shoulders as we became a 1 rb team. Same thing when Conner went down it all fell on to Edmonds.
It’s no wonder we couldn’t lean on running the ball at the end of the season.
So now we head into the 2022 season with our two main running backs entering into free agency AND we still don’t have any idea about Eno or Ward.
Brilliant Keim…simply brilliant.

 

[slanidrac16]

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What a great idea. Seems utterly remarkable he wasn’t used this season in some downfield capacity.
Can’t learn the whole tree route? Then learn some!

 

[TRW]

What a great idea. Seems utterly remarkable he wasn’t used this season in some downfield capacity.
Can’t learn the whole tree route? Then learn some!

Play caller has to incorporate them into the playbook or it’s waisted coaching.

 

[reebokalone2001]

Rams

Cards were 13

Rams were also first for stopping the run. Cards were # 22.

2021 NFL pass-rushing, run-stopping, blocking leaderboard: Win rate rankings

ESPN Analytics created revolutionary new metrics to measure performance in both the run and pass game. Here are the leaders for the 2021 season.

www.espn.com

Surprisingly see Pugh's and Garcia's but not Hudson's names are on the list. Did our fans overrate him?

 

[Krangodnzr]

lol

You go so far to the other end as if you were ashamed to be such a big advocate. He had a 95 passer rating his last 3 games of the regular season. Thats with multiple drops (or OPI's) that cost us yards/points. And believe it or not the "statpadding" actually dropped his passer rating. We could have won the Seahawks and Colts games if we had better special teams/stops against the run. Its not that Murray didnt have his issues, but you're ignoring there were other issues as well

That Rams game disaster would have negated all that around here even if the final games were "respectable"

Dont say respectable. Just say you wish he was great. Cause if he were that would give you and others a safe space about this franchise.

Sidenote: No more expect terrible loss predictions next season. Major cringe.

It's easier for one guy to play better than for a whole unit. He is also the triggerman if the offense. I don't think any of us really care what his QB Rating was...and by the way 95 QB Rating in this era hovers around average...and Murray is supposed to be better than average.

The Seahawks game for example, Murray played pretty well for 2/3s of the game than proceeded to take like 4 sacks in the second half with probably 3 of the sacks self caused.

 

[BritCard]

Paging Steve Keim

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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It's easier for one guy to play better than for a whole unit. He is also the triggerman if the offense. I don't think any of us really care what his QB Rating was...and by the way 95 QB Rating in this era hovers around average...and Murray is supposed to be better than average.

The Seahawks game for example, Murray played pretty well for 2/3s of the game than proceeded to take like 4 sacks in the second half with probably 3 of the sacks self caused.

Generally That’s why I think QB rating for a single game is kinda a terrible measure. Like +\- in the nba. A QB can play great for most of the game and rack up stats and rating and then stink in the crunch and it’ll show up as an average or even above average game when the eye test tells us he crumbled when it counted most.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Generally That’s why I think QB rating for a single game is kinda a terrible measure. Like +\- in the nba. A QB can play great for most of the game and rack up stats and rating and then stink in the crunch and it’ll show up as an average or even above average game when the eye test tells us he crumbled when it counted most.

ESPN's QBR is much better at this because it actually has analysts view the game and assess how the QB played vs. league average.

Of the final six games Murray played, the only really good games he had was against the Bears and Dallas with QBRs of 85.5 and 79.4. The rest he was graded as 46.3 or lower, meaning in 4 of 6 games, Murray played from the below average to shockingly bad (Detroit 7.0).

In contrast, he was elite or near elite in 5 of 8 early season games. He played poorly in the first Niners game and in the Texans game.

Looking at QBR proves my point exactly. If he even plays league average (50.0 QBR) in the Rams (39.8), Colts (46.3), and Seahawks game (38.6), the Cardinals win those games because of how close they were. Well maybe better than 50 QBR, but I don't think it's crazy to expect Murray to play at a 60% better level.

And all of this compliments what I visually saw: Murray struggled in nearly every game after his return other than the Bears and Cowboys games. Does the long season wear on him? Does he not respond well to adversity? This is why I don't blame Kingsbury as much as many, because I see that the centerpiece of his offense is plays like crap when the chips are down.

 

[Vacard]

ESPN's QBR is much better at this because it actually has analysts view the game and assess how the QB played vs. league average.

Of the final six games Murray played, the only really good games he had was against the Bears and Dallas with QBRs of 85.5 and 79.4. The rest he was graded as 46.3 or lower, meaning in 4 of 6 games, Murray played from the below average to shockingly bad (Detroit 7.0).

In contrast, he was elite or near elite in 5 of 8 early season games. He played poorly in the first Niners game and in the Texans game.

Looking at QBR proves my point exactly. If he even plays league average (50.0 QBR) in the Rams (39.8), Colts (46.3), and Seahawks game (38.6), the Cardinals win those games because of how close they were. Well maybe better than 50 QBR, but I don't think it's crazy to expect Murray to play at a 60% better level.

And all of this compliments what I visually saw: Murray struggled in nearly every game after his return other than the Bears and Cowboys games. Does the long season wear on him? Does he not respond well to adversity? This is why I don't blame Kingsbury as much as many, because I see that the centerpiece of his offense is plays like crap when the chips are down.

Don’t blame KK, the offensive genius who didn’t make ANY adjustments?? If the NFL adjusted, then it’s Kingsbury’s job to adjust as well. Game-planning and making plays. I’ve seen none of that.

 

[SoonerLou]

ESPN's QBR is much better at this because it actually has analysts view the game and assess how the QB played vs. league average.

Of the final six games Murray played, the only really good games he had was against the Bears and Dallas with QBRs of 85.5 and 79.4. The rest he was graded as 46.3 or lower, meaning in 4 of 6 games, Murray played from the below average to shockingly bad (Detroit 7.0).

In contrast, he was elite or near elite in 5 of 8 early season games. He played poorly in the first Niners game and in the Texans game.

Looking at QBR proves my point exactly. If he even plays league average (50.0 QBR) in the Rams (39.8), Colts (46.3), and Seahawks game (38.6), the Cardinals win those games because of how close they were. Well maybe better than 50 QBR, but I don't think it's crazy to expect Murray to play at a 60% better level.

And all of this compliments what I visually saw: Murray struggled in nearly every game after his return other than the Bears and Cowboys games. Does the long season wear on him? Does he not respond well to adversity? This is why I don't blame Kingsbury as much as many, because I see that the centerpiece of his offense is plays like crap when the chips are down.

I love QBR. Jimmy G and Joe Burrow won playoff games with QBR's under 29. Brady almost won a playoff game with a QBR of 13.

And since you're such a big QBR fan you should know that redzone failures have a negative impact on it. As I told @Russ Smith our lack of play action under center in the redzone hurts Kyler's chances to get those TD passes that other guys get.

Kyler moved the ball at will against the Rams. He had a killer miss to Green and a horrible int to Floyd. However, lets not ignore other factors at play. Somehow we had the bright idea to single up Aaron Donald in the redzone. Garcia getting destroyed and Donald tips a pass for int. Hopkins drops a 4th down pass in the redzone. Those non conversions/plays impact the QBR as well. And even with that that was still one of the better games against the Rams the 2nd half of the season. Seemed like only Jimmy G/Shannan had a clue on how to play great against them.

Kirk drops vs the Colts. Us going for it on 4th down instead of kicking the FG hurts it. You ignore that DJ Humphries coming off covid giving up sacks negatively impacts him as well. AJ Green was playing as if he had money on the Seahawks with how bad he was playing.

Kyler was a disaster against the Lions and 3rd game against the Rams. However, he was RESPECTABLE (your words) over the collection of other games. We saw other teams QBs win games with QBR's like that and they didnt have our issues. After losing Hopkins it should have been on the coach to change the strategy/mentality. Figure out how to effectively run the ball and get Kyler on the move. That would have set us up for greater success in the redzone as well.

Kyler deserves blame. However, its laughable to act like it was just him not stepping up or like what you want to say. Not playing great.

Stafford beat the Vikings with a 39 QBR. Rams beat the Seahawks with a 44 QBR from Stafford. His last two games werent as good as Kyler against the Cowboys and he had his NUMBER 1 WR. Despite Stafford's struggles to end the year the Rams still won games. Hell of a coaching job by McVay.

Don’t blame KK, the offensive genius who didn’t make ANY adjustments?? If the NFL adjusted? It’s Kingsbury’s job to adjust as well. Game-planning and making plays. I’ve seen none of that.

Krang thinks Kliff had no fault in Mahomes 2nd half dips in the season in college.

 

[Vacard]

I love QBR. Jimmy G and Joe Burrow won playoff games with QBR's under 29. Brady almost won a playoff game with a QBR of 13.

And since you're such a big QBR fan you should know that redzone failures have a negative impact on it. As I told @Russ Smith our lack of play action under center in the redzone hurts Kyler's chances to get those TD passes that other guys get.
Kyler moved the ball at will against the Rams. However, lets not ignore other factors at play. Somehow we had the bright idea to single up Aaron Donald in the redzone. Garcia getting destroyed and Donald tips a pass for int. Hopkins drops a 4th down pass in the redzone. Kirk drops vs the Colts. Those plays negatively impact Kyler's QBR as well as our lack of creativity in the redzone as well. You ignore that DJ Humphries coming off covid giving up sacks negatively impacts him as well. AJ Green was playing as if he had money on the Seahawks with how bad he was playing.

Kyler was a disaster against the Lions and 3rd game against the Rams. However, he was RESPECTABLE (your words) in every other game. We saw other teams QBs win games with QBR's like that and they didnt have our issues. After losing Hopkins it should have been on the coach to change the strategy/mentality. Figure out how to effectively run the ball and get Kyler on the move.

Kyler deserves blame. However, its laughable to act like it was just him not stepping up.

Krang thinks Kliff had no fault in Mahomes 2nd half dips in the season in college.

Hold on, that’s Krang The Brain?? Lol

 

[daves]

He can be a talented back but he has his flaws. The inevitable injury can come in game 1 or 2 as easily as it can late in the season.

Just curious... how does missing 2 games in a 17 game season compare to all other RBs who started the season in the top 2 of their team's depth chart?

...dave

 

[HairZach]

Krang thinks Kliff had no fault in Mahomes 2nd half dips in the season in college.

Mahomes didn't have second half dips in college though. The team lost a ton after they got through their cupcakes but Mahomes and the offense was good throughout in both wins and losses outside of 1 games (2016 ISU). His 819 yard game (loss) came in the back half of the season.

The narrative that Kliff's end of year collapses these last 2 seasons have been a problem throughout his college years feels false to me. He didn't have good seasons in college. There was no "great start" followed by collapse. They were a small school team with bad talent that could be scary, but overall sucked. The offense was consistently rolling but it never mattered since they had the leagues worst defense. To me there is no similarity with Texas Tech's problem and our problem

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Mahomes didn't have second half dips in college though. The team lost a ton after they got through their cupcakes but Mahomes and the offense was good throughout in both wins and losses outside of 1 games (2016 ISU). His 819 yard game (loss) came in the back half of the season.

The narrative that Kliff's end of year collapses these last 2 seasons have been a problem throughout his college years feels false to me. He didn't have good seasons in college. There was no "great start" followed by collapse. They were a small school team with bad talent that could be scary, but overall sucked. The offense was consistently rolling but it never mattered since they had the leagues worst defense. To me there is no similarity with Texas Tech's problem and our problem

Ignore invariable patterns at your own peril.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Ignore invariable patterns at your own peril.

Exactly.

His team lost against the better teams in his conference. That's the pattern. Look at the schedules and you will quickly realize he wasn't losing to Arkansas Mechanical and Meat, he was losing to Oklahoma and Texas.

 

[SoonerLou]

Mahomes didn't have second half dips in college though. The team lost a ton after they got through their cupcakes but Mahomes and the offense was good throughout in both wins and losses outside of 1 games (2016 ISU). His 819 yard game (loss) came in the back half of the season.

The narrative that Kliff's end of year collapses these last 2 seasons have been a problem throughout his college years feels false to me. He didn't have good seasons in college. There was no "great start" followed by collapse. They were a small school team with bad talent that could be scary, but overall sucked. The offense was consistently rolling but it never mattered since they had the leagues worst defense. To me there is no similarity with Texas Tech's problem and our problem

His passer rating dipped by 30 points and completion % by 9. Mahomes and Kliff scored 10 vs Iowa State his last year.

With Mahomes talent and against a big 12 schedule he should have had great #s against those teams. And he'd have a couple really good games, but that offense was more inconsistent than people think. Just the lesser corners of the big 12 eventually break after throwing all game. Instead it had people questioning if he was a 1st round player.

Matt Rhule at Baylor and Campbell at Iowa State were able to turn their programs around with the same or less talent. Kliff would get thoroughly outcoached by Kansas State teams that were not stacked.

Exactly.

His team lost against the better teams in his conference. That's the pattern. Look at the schedules and you will quickly realize he wasn't losing to Arkansas Mechanical and Meat, he was losing to Oklahoma and Texas.

Yea some of those Texas teams were the worst in decades.

Kliff has done a better job as a pro. I'll give him that. However, it got bad and it got stale at Tech. Mahomes showed no real improvement. And once his next QB showed no special talent his offense just was not that interesting to watch. Mike Leach got more out of lesser QBs.

Put it this way. Maybe Baker Mayfield was over drafted. However, if he stayed and started with Kliff Im not sure he goes top 3 rounds. He would have been leaned far more into his reckless habits with Kliff.

And no I dont dislike Kliff. I like the guy, but I cant help but feel he skipped some steps. Kyler has to learn while he has a HC learning. He should have done the 2 years or so as an OC and then got a HC job. Feels a tad like Matt Nagy with a better QB to me right now. Hopefully he and everyone else gets better.

 

[BritCard]

His passer rating dipped by 30 points and completion % by 9. Mahomes and Kliff scored 10 vs Iowa State his last year.

With Mahomes talent and against a big 12 schedule he should have had great #s against those teams. And he'd have a couple really good games, but that offense was more inconsistent than people think. Just the lesser corners of the big 12 eventually break after throwing all game. Instead it had people questioning if he was a 1st round player.

Matt Rhule at Baylor and Campbell at Iowa State were able to turn their programs around with the same or less talent. Kliff would get thoroughly outcoached by Kansas State teams that were not stacked.


Yea some of those Texas teams were the worst in decades.

Kliff has done a better job as a pro. I'll give him that. However, it got bad and it got stale at Tech. Mahomes showed no real improvement. And once his next QB showed no special talent his offense just was not that interesting to watch. Mike Leach got more out of lesser QBs.

Put it this way. Maybe Baker Mayfield was over drafted. However, if he stayed and started with Kliff Im not sure he goes top 3 rounds. He would have been leaned far more into his reckless habits with Kliff.

And no I dont dislike Kliff. I like the guy, but I cant help but feel he skipped some steps. Kyler has to learn while he has a HC learning. He should have done the 2 years or so as an OC and then got a HC job. Feels a tad like Matt Nagy with a better QB to me right now. Hopefully he and everyone else gets better.

He did skip some steps, he doesn't have that excuse any more.

3 years as a HC in the NFL is like 10 as a position coach or 6 as a coordinator. If he hasn't learned everything he needs by now then he's not going to for some time yet.

On saying that, it's going to be a tough year next year. The schedule is adverse and we have a QB that, well, hasn't shown much greatness in the face of adversity. If Kliff want's to keep his job his priority this off season needs to be getting Kyler where he needs to be. Whether through additional coaching or bringing in an OC that can help.

Bring in Jim Caldwell is something that should have happened by now. He's a very good, experienced coach who coached Flacco to a SB. Who got the best out of Manning. Who got Stafford to his first Pro Bowl in his first year at the Lions.

Hell, he even got a 5-8 record, 3529 yards and a 20-4 TD/ INT ratio out of Ryan Fitzpatrick in 2019 in the season that Miami were supposed to be tanking (he couldn't do much for Rosen though but a man can only do so much).

He's had success with QB's everywhere and it's ridiculous he's out of work. Adding another Black coach is good for the NFL and if he does well and gets hired away we also get 2 3rd round comp picks. It's win-win-win.

But Kliff's biggest weakness might be his arrogance that he doesn't need any help on offense.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

NFC WEST​

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Arizona Cardinals​

Linebacker Jordan Hicks

Hicks asked for a trade last offseason after the Cardinals drafted his replacements in the first round of back-to-back years. When he didn't get it, he went out and started all 17 games and led the team in defensive snaps. But after going through that last offseason, Hicks -- like every player -- deserves to be on a team that appreciates him. That clearly isn't Arizona. -- Josh Weinfuss

32 NFL players who need a change of scenery this offseason: Landry, Garoppolo, Engram, more

Jarvis Landry has no guaranteed money left on his contract, while the Packers could move on from Za'Darius Smith and add cap space.

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[Krangodnzr]

I love QBR. Jimmy G and Joe Burrow won playoff games with QBR's under 29. Brady almost won a playoff game with a QBR of 13.

It can happen if the rest of the team has a monumental performance....but to rely on that instead of one guy playing better than average isn't a usual winner.

And since you're such a big QBR fan you should know that redzone failures have a negative impact on it. As I told @Russ Smith our lack of play action under center in the redzone hurts Kyler's chances to get those TD passes that other guys get.

Supposedly Kyler doesn't like playing under center...

Kyler moved the ball at will against the Rams. He had a killer miss to Green and a horrible int to Floyd. However, lets not ignore other factors at play. Somehow we had the bright idea to single up Aaron Donald in the redzone. Garcia getting destroyed and Donald tips a pass for int. Hopkins drops a 4th down pass in the redzone. Those non conversions/plays impact the QBR as well. And even with that that was still one of the better games against the Rams the 2nd half of the season. Seemed like only Jimmy G/Shannan had a clue on how to play great against them.

But those weren't the only misses from Kyler. And the tipped pass is something the QB also has to see, that's a pocket awareness issue as well.

Kirk drops vs the Colts. Us going for it on 4th down instead of kicking the FG hurts it. You ignore that DJ Humphries coming off covid giving up sacks negatively impacts him as well. AJ Green was playing as if he had money on the Seahawks with how bad he was playing.

And all of this is factored in by QBR. That's why QBR is better than QB Rating.

Kyler was a disaster against the Lions and 3rd game against the Rams. However, he was RESPECTABLE (your words) over the collection of other games. We saw other teams QBs win games with QBR's like that and they didnt have our issues. After losing Hopkins it should have been on the coach to change the strategy/mentality. Figure out how to effectively run the ball and get Kyler on the move. That would have set us up for greater success in the redzone as well.

He was respectable in two games. He crumbled in the clutch moments of the Seahawks game and the Colts game.

Kyler deserves blame. However, its laughable to act like it was just him not stepping up or like what you want to say. Not playing great.

What's laughable is that you act like I'm not a fan of Kyler. But I'm not going to ignore the objective fact that Murray played like crap down the stretch. He didn't make the plays needed to win in crucial moments, and they were plenty of plays to be made.

Stafford beat the Vikings with a 39 QBR. Rams beat the Seahawks with a 44 QBR from Stafford. His last two games werent as good as Kyler against the Cowboys and he had his NUMBER 1 WR. Despite Stafford's struggles to end the year the Rams still won games. Hell of a coaching job by McVay.

Stafford didn't have a stretch of 6 bad games with two respites to end the season. And he played huge in the Rams win over the Cardinals.

Krang thinks Kliff had no fault in Mahomes 2nd half dips in the season in college.

I think just looking back at records without any context is pretty silly. Mahomes played great during the early part of the year but his play fell off against the big boys.

This is all pretty funny to me overall. I get it, Murray can do no wrong.