Bettcher sounds like our new DC

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Bowles had a few games as an interim HC in Miami and a few games as an interim DC in Philly. Otherwise his only experience was as a position coach.

You can't compare the two at all; Bowles had 15-20 years of coaching experience before getting his shot. BETTCHER has been Bobby Bouche for most of his... This concerns me greatly.

 

[MadCardDisease]

As for the rest of your post, I don't know. You're saying that it's not the X's and O's, it's the Jimmys and Joes, but doesn't last season--when we were objectively less talented and yet had similar results--dispute that conclusion?

I think that if we're going to get worse at the Xs and Os (which is conjecture, obvs), then we better get some improved Jimmys and Joes in. I guess. I think mostly that our offense just has to make the quantum leap that we were expecting to come in 2014.

Bowles did do a lot with less. What made Bowles a great DC was that he coached to his players strengths. He used what he had and didn't try and force a square peg into a round hole. However Bowles wasn't without great defenders. He still had a very good DL and a crazy good secondary. So he was able to take away the run and put his CBs on an island to manufacture a pass rush with blitz after blitz.

What I'm concerned about is the Cardinals are already without a great pass rusher. Now you may lose 3 or 4 more of your core Defensive Line. You may lose the leader of your defense at ILB and you may lose one of your elite CBs. At some point the talent level just can't keep up and teams will relentlessly attack your weaknesses.

I believe that we are on the hairy edge of that point from a talent standpoint on defense. It will be interesting to see what transpires this offseason. Will Keim try and keep this defense somewhat together? How much will he sacrafice to try and keep Fitz on the roster?

To me if I'm Keim I go all out on Defense. I cut Fitz if he doesn't accept a massive pay cut. I cut Dockett if he doesn't agree to a new deal that is cap friendly. I spend whatever cap space I have on improving the Defense.

 

[Stout]

I dunno. I don't think this is fair. This is just asymmetry of information at play. There's no question that Arians has more information about whether Bettcher can succeed as defensive coordinator--and under what circumstances--than we do. On what evidence can we judge whether this is a good choice until at least the start of next season?

It's possible that we're withholding the announcement of the DC until we can pin down Bettcher's mentor. If someone comes out that would want more control or a better title, then that can be worked out without stripping Bettcher of a title.

23 wins in 2 seasons earns Arians the benefit of the doubt--even if I'm personally skeptical.

This is well said. Yes, I cut out the Cooper stuff, but on all the rest, I agree completely.

 

[Shaggy]

Yes, but you remember how that character really played out, right?

Didn't he end up being the killer in Scream?

 

[Chopper0080]

Bowles did do a lot with less. What made Bowles a great DC was that he coached to his players strengths. He used what he had and didn't try and force a square peg into a round hole. However Bowles wasn't without great defenders. He still had a very good DL and a crazy good secondary. So he was able to take away the run and put his CBs on an island to manufacture a pass rush with blitz after blitz.

What I'm concerned about is the Cardinals are already without a great pass rusher. Now you may lose 3 or 4 more of your core Defensive Line. You may lose the leader of your defense at ILB and you may lose one of your elite CBs. At some point the talent level just can't keep up and teams will relentlessly attack your weaknesses.

I believe that we are on the hairy edge of that point from a talent standpoint on defense. It will be interesting to see what transpires this offseason. Will Keim try and keep this defense somewhat together? How much will he sacrafice to try and keep Fitz on the roster?

To me if I'm Keim I go all out on Defense. I cut Fitz if he doesn't accept a massive pay cut. I cut Dockett if he doesn't agree to a new deal that is cap friendly. I spend whatever cap space I have on improving the Defense.

You could go this route, and the defense is probably closer to being a dominant unit than the offense, but are you kind of fighting a losing battle by doing so? The league is pro offense and makes defense very difficult. I would agree that it will be easier to improve the defense this offseason because it seems like the holes are more glaring on defense.

 

[BigRedRage]

You could go this route, and the defense is probably closer to being a dominant unit than the offense, but are you kind of fighting a losing battle by doing so? The league is pro offense and makes defense very difficult. I would agree that it will be easier to improve the defense this offseason because it seems like the holes are more glaring on defense.

Last years super bowl team repeating this year up in seattle has had the #1 D in scoring and yards two years straight so the idea that offense is more important really isn't accurate. Only in the regular season.

Last years #1 offense got completely dominated by the #1 defense in the super bowl.

Our offense is pretty good and a few pieces would help but we absolutely need to focus on our defensive shortcomings with a mix of keeping our unit together and adding valuable pieces.

 

[kerouac9]

I believe that we are on the hairy edge of that point from a talent standpoint on defense. It will be interesting to see what transpires this offseason. Will Keim try and keep this defense somewhat together? How much will he sacrafice to try and keep Fitz on the roster?

Yeah. I dunno. Maybe we lose Dan Williams, but Ta'amu is an RFA. He's not going anywhere. Rucker and Kelly are under contract; if you lose Dockett--which I don't think is going to happen--you're basically where you are now, only Ed Stinson is coming back and maybe Kareem Martin takes a step forward in his second season.

I don't get the concern with the secondary. Cromartie probably leaves, but we had a good D with Powers starting at corner, and that opens up snaps for Mathieu to get on the field.

And ILBs who aren't that good at playing football but are good leaders are a dime a dozen. If Foote leaves, bring in DJ Williams. He's probably better than Foote right now, anyway.

 

[NJCardFan]

That he is an OLB coach and has been for a long time, I would imagine he will want better OLB and blitz play which we really do need. I still am scared about hiring such a greenhorn to be calling plays. yes he has one at OC but BA calls the plays, not the OC. Scheming and playcalling are a huge part of why DC matters.

Gotta start somewhere. Every great coordinator started out as an assistant. I'll give the guy a chance.

 

[kerouac9]

Last years super bowl team repeating this year up in seattle has had the #1 D in scoring and yards two years straight so the idea that offense is more important really isn't accurate. Only in the regular season.

Last years #1 offense got completely dominated by the #1 defense in the super bowl.

Our offense is pretty good and a few pieces would help but we absolutely need to focus on our defensive shortcomings with a mix of keeping our unit together and adding valuable pieces.

Our offense right now is potentially league average if everyone's healthy and playing well. If you think our offense is "pretty good", you need to watch more non-Cardinals games.

 

[BigRedRage]

Our offense right now is potentially league average if everyone's healthy and playing well. If you think our offense is "pretty good", you need to watch more non-Cardinals games.

By pretty good, I am saying they are good enough to win and go far. When healthy. The first 9 games of offense was totally palatable. We were 9-1 and 9-3 at one point because the offense was good enough and the defense was beyond good enough.

Picking at a word to try to downgrade my comment doesn't really add to the conversation. We obviously have different definitions of "pretty good" My point stands. With how our defense is, I find it far more important to tune and improve than our offense.

Improve your strengths, minimize your weaknesses.

Id rather have an average offense and far above average defense than spend all offseason on offense and have an above average offense with an average defense.

 

[kerouac9]

By pretty good, I am saying they are good enough to win and go far. When healthy. The first 9 games of offense was totally palatable. We were 9-1 and 9-3 at one point because the offense was good enough and the defense was beyond good enough.

Picking at a word to try to downgrade my comment doesn't really add to the conversation. My point stands. With how our defense is, I find it far more important to tune and improve than our offense.

Improve your strengths, minimize your weaknesses.

Id rather have an average offense and far above average defense than spend all offseason on offense and have an above average offense with an average defense.

The offense was "good enough" only because the defense was converting turnovers at an unsustainable rate while the offense was not turning over the ball at an unsustainable rate. All the advanced metrics pointed to there being an impending regression in the W/L column in the second half of the season, and that's exactly what happened. We were converting 3rd and longs at a completely unsustainable rate early in the year.

If you don't want your language challenged, use more specific language. I can only go by what you say; I have no idea what you mean.

I think that the marginal improvement by adding to the defense is fairly small. As I said above, I don't anticipate a huge talent fall-off from the D; the only major potential loss is Dan Williams. That would hurt my feelings--there's no bigger fan of 6'2", 330 lbs in general, and Dan Williams in particular, than I--but we have some other solutions.

Seattle had the #1 Defense this year, but they also had the #5 offense. Last year they had the #1 defense and the #7 offense. So tell me how we're going to get closer to the Super Bowl going from the #5 defense to the #3 defense while remaining 25th in offense.

 

[BigRedRage]

The offense was "good enough" only because the defense was converting turnovers at an unsustainable rate while the offense was not turning over the ball at an unsustainable rate. All the advanced metrics pointed to there being an impending regression in the W/L column in the second half of the season, and that's exactly what happened. We were converting 3rd and longs at a completely unsustainable rate early in the year.

If you don't want your language challenged, use more specific language. I can only go by what you say; I have no idea what you mean.

I think that the marginal improvement by adding to the defense is fairly small. As I said above, I don't anticipate a huge talent fall-off from the D; the only major potential loss is Dan Williams. That would hurt my feelings--there's no bigger fan of 6'2", 330 lbs in general, and Dan Williams in particular, than I--but we have some other solutions.

Seattle had the #1 Defense this year, but they also had the #5 offense. Last year they had the #1 defense and the #7 offense. So tell me how we're going to get closer to the Super Bowl going from the #5 defense to the #3 defense while remaining 25th in offense.

Its not a language challenge, its a nitpick.

I made my point.

Until Palmer went down, we were on a fast track to the super bowl. Hell, we held the top seed until like week 16? Improve the offense but focus on improving the Defense. We are almost there.

 

[kerouac9]

Its not a language challenge, its a nitpick.

I made my point.

Until Palmer went down, we were on a fast track to the super bowl. Hell, we held the top seed until like week 16? Improve the offense but focus on improving the Defense. We are almost there.

I guess. Palmer didn't have to face the hardest teams in our schedule. Does Palmer make the difference in beating Seattle once--much less twice? Nothing else matters if we don't beat Seattle.

Focus on improving the offense, and work smartly to help the defense when the opportunities arise. That's how we got where we were. Our best free agent additions the last two years (Dansby, Abraham, Foote, Kelly) were these kinds of additions.

 

[CFLredzoned]

I think this decision stems from Mike B learning his lesson about the vast difference between two styles of 3-4 defense. Mike and company saw how much better the personnel performed under Bowles' aggresive version vs Horton's hold-your-man version - and they didn't want to risk taking a step back. What's the best way to make sure that doesn't happen? Promote one of the guys you've been grooming for this moment for the past year.

Which is the lesser of two evils? Experienced DC under an unproven (to the Cards) style of 3-4 defense? Or inexperienced DC under a proven superior (to the Cards) style of 3-4 defense?

 

[kerouac9]

I think this decision stems from Mike B learning his lesson about the vast difference between two styles of 3-4 defense. Mike and company saw how much better the personnel performed under Bowles' aggresive version vs Horton's hold-your-man version - and they didn't want to risk taking a step back. What's the best way to make sure that doesn't happen? Promote one of the guys you've been grooming for this moment for the past year.

Which is the lesser of two evils? Experienced DC under an unproven (to the Cards) style of 3-4 defense? Or inexperienced DC under a proven superior (to the Cards) style of 3-4 defense?

I think that's nonsense. Horton's defense wasn't bad; they just didn't create wins because the offense was cover-your-eyes awful. Cardinals defense DVOA by year:

2011: 20th (lockout year)
2012: 6th
2013: 2nd
2014: 7th

 

[CFLredzoned]

I think that's nonsense. Horton's defense wasn't bad; they just didn't create wins because the offense was cover-your-eyes awful. Cardinals defense DVOA by year:

2011: 20th (lockout year)
2012: 6th
2013: 2nd
2014: 7th

Didn't the rush defense go from worst to first, basically? From everything I hear, the consensus from the players and the media seems to be that the Bowles style of 3-4 fits the personnel better.

 

[GuernseyCard]

I think this decision stems from Mike B learning his lesson about the vast difference between two styles of 3-4 defense. Mike and company saw how much better the personnel performed under Bowles' aggresive version vs Horton's hold-your-man version - and they didn't want to risk taking a step back. What's the best way to make sure that doesn't happen? Promote one of the guys you've been grooming for this moment for the past year.

Which is the lesser of two evils? Experienced DC under an unproven (to the Cards) style of 3-4 defense? Or inexperienced DC under a proven superior (to the Cards) style of 3-4 defense?

Really...

That we were trying to bring LeBeau on board seems to indicate that someone didn't have a problem with the Horton style defence.

 

[BigRedRage]

Didn't the rush defense go from worst to first, basically? From everything I hear, the consensus from the players and the media seems to be that the Bowles style of 3-4 fits the personnel better.

Hortons D was about stopping the pass, Bowles stopping the run and the state swung both ways for the respective coaches.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

I trust BA on this until proven otherwise.

.

I was in the same boat, but......

Keeping a god awful punter all year after he more than proved he was terrible =strike one.

Bringing in a guy you cut (and didn't even think was worthy of practice squad roster) as your starter after QB 1 and 2 go down =strike 2

BA has done great things here, but let's not pretend he's immune to some seriously "WTF?" moments.

 

[Mitch]

Really...

That we were trying to bring LeBeau on board seems to indicate that someone didn't have a problem with the Horton style defence.

LeBeau had recently been switching up his schemes to incorporate more 1 gap assignments. He would not have been adverse to Bowles' style. LeBeau's traditional 2 gap style enabled him to stop the run better by freeing up, the LBers. In Bowles' 1 gap scheme he uses run blitzes to counter for the lack of 2 gap responsibilities, if and when the need arises.

 

[kerouac9]

Didn't the rush defense go from worst to first, basically? From everything I hear, the consensus from the players and the media seems to be that the Bowles style of 3-4 fits the personnel better.

1) I really don't care much about players' feelings. I think that Patrick Peterson was better served by the Horton defense.

2) The defensive personnel has been more or less completely re-made since Horton left, so it's not much of a surprise that it fits the current personnel better.

3) DVOA by year: pass/rush

2011 (Lockout year): 15th/24th
2012: 2nd/16th
2013: 5th/1st
2014: 14th/7th

I think the focus on run defense is kind of a red herring. If the offense was productive enough to keep pressure on opposing teams, then the pass defense is probably more essential. There's no inherent reason why rush defense is better than pass defense--no matter what Ron Wolfley says.

I think that pass defense rating in 2013 is boosted by John Abraham being a one-man wrecking crew in the second half of the year. Really illustrates how important it is to have a prime rush specialist.

And I'm not advocating to not invest on the defense. I absolutely think that we should get an inside linebacker who can play football good and replace Kevin Minter or a rush linebacker who forces double teams in the first round. If those guys are available, we should snap them up.

But I think the focus of the coaching staff and front office is to put the offensive personnel in place to stay at or ahead of schedule in down and distance situations. Here was our average yards to go by down in 2014:

1st: 10.02
2nd: 8.77
3rd: 7.75

It doesn't matter how good your defense is, if you're only averaging 2.25 yards on your first two offensive downs, you don't have a sustainable offensive system.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

I was in the same boat, but......

Keeping a god awful punter all year after he more than proved he was terrible =strike one.

Bringing in a guy you cut (and didn't even think was worthy of practice squad roster) as your starter after QB 1 and 2 go down =strike 2

BA has done great things here, but let's not pretend he's immune to some seriously "WTF?" moments.

Agree

I like BA a lot for what he has done. But to look the other way on some of his decisions is being blind. He has to be held accountable for the good decisions and the bad.

 

[GuernseyCard]

I was in the same boat, but......

Keeping a god awful punter all year after he more than proved he was terrible =strike one.

Bringing in a guy you cut (and didn't even think was worthy of practice squad roster) as your starter after QB 1 and 2 go down =strike 2

BA has done great things here, but let's not pretend he's immune to some seriously "WTF?" moments.

That punter won one of the League's monthly awards, and I've yet to see a credible answer to the question, "if not Lindley, who?" (He came in after QB#1 went down, and until the infection it was believed that QB#2 would be available for the last game of the season and certainly the playoffs.)

 

[MadCardDisease]

That punter won one of the League's monthly awards, and I've yet to see a credible answer to the question, "if not Lindley, who?" (He came in after QB#1 went down, and until the infection it was believed that QB#2 would be available for the last game of the season and certainly the playoffs.)

Yeah when a team is down to their 3rd string QB I find it funny that fans seem to think QBs grow on trees. There are teams out there who don't even have a servicable starter at QB. Let alone a decent backup.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

That punter won one of the League's monthly awards,

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Puhhhleaaase.. He had a decent inside the 20 percentage, only because of his noodle leg.. When we were just outside of FG range, He could let it rip, with little or no chance of a touchback.

As far as the QB position... No one available was going to come in perform miracles, but almost ANYONE available would have most likely done MUCH better.

If you're gonna carry 3 QB's on your roster, maybe it's best that number 3 isn't such a bottom of the barrel project, that you go fishing for your old number 4?