I keep seeing trade Marion posts....

[Yuma]

are you guys NUTS!!! If we traded Marion, sure as shooting, you guys would be moaning about how poor our stats are from the small forward position. Look, we have one of the top point guards, one of the top small forwards, two guys with tremendous potential at the shooting guard and power forward spots, and a lot of hustle guys at the center position. It's a REALLY young team. When Googs and penny's contracts are gone, this team will acquire talent the will put them over the top, if Amare, Joe Johnson, and Zarko don't mold into players that will get us there before then. You don't trade away a guy from the SF slot when it will create a problem at that spot and not solve another position. Patience. We overacheived last year, enjoy it. This year we are getting hosed, and rightfully so. We play in the most competitive conference, and arguably division in basketball. Our young guys are still developing. Let's give it another year and enjoy wating Amare, Joe Johnson, Zarko, and Leandro develop. Heck, I can even see much more improvement in Casey Jacobson this year. Don't worry, the Suns are not like other perrennial losing teams. They will be playoff contenders again sooner rather than later.

 

[Chaz]

Nice Post Yuma.

Patience is the key. This season has sucked so far but people have to expect a few growing pains and not hit the panic button.

We have known for a while we would be waiting for Penny and Googs to finish their contracts before a big push deep into the playoffs could be made.

 

[elindholm]

My guess is that Marion will never be an All-Star again. His offensive game is too limited and he has stopped improving. He reminds me a bit of Dan Majerle, not that their games are all that similar. Majerle entered the league as a slasher and gritty defender, made the All-Star team a few times early in his career, and then became complacent. He was still a good player, but his All-Star days were over.

The problem is that Marion is paid like an All-Star and will be for the rest of the decade. I don't think anyone would be asking to trade Marion if he were making a few million less per year. He is indeed a good player who can be a very effective third or fourth option.

 

[schutd]

I agree. It was a tough quandry the org faced in re-signing Marion. I agree with several on this board who felt the Suns jumped the gun in re-signing Marion a year before they had to, and offering the max before even determining what his market value was. Thatr being said, I still LOVE Marion on our team. I just wish he didnt cost so mauch to be the third best player. To me only the top 5 por ten players IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE are worth max money, not the top five on any given team.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by schutd
I agree. It was a tough quandry the org faced in re-signing Marion. I agree with several on this board who felt the Suns jumped the gun in re-signing Marion a year before they had to, and offering the max before even determining what his market value was. Thatr being said, I still LOVE Marion on our team. I just wish he didnt cost so mauch to be the third best player. To me only the top 5 por ten players IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE are worth max money, not the top five on any given team.

Come on now. Amare is good, and will be great, but right now, Marion is much better than him. Marion is a better scorer and rebounder. Give Amare another 6 months, and he'll be a better rebounder, another year or two and he'll be a better scorer. But right now, Shawn Marion is easily our 2nd best player.

 

[schutd]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Come on now. Amare is good, and will be great, but right now, Marion is much better than him. Marion is a better scorer and rebounder. Give Amare another 6 months, and he'll be a better rebounder, another year or two and he'll be a better scorer. But right now, Shawn Marion is easily our 2nd best player.

Right now? OK. But that doesnt change the fact that SOON he will be our third best, and even without the foresight and assumption of that, he was still extended too early, at too much money. I know some of my point includes hindsight at 20/20, but the fact that he was given max money a year ahead of time, before market value had been determined is indisputable. One could probably argue the benefit of doing that, but that fact that happened surely is indisputable, and I think it was a bad business move.

 

[George O'Brien]

There are two issues being discussed here. One, is Marion overpaid? Second, should he be traded?

First, yes, Marion is overpaid. Get over it. He's not giving it back.

Second, should he be traded? If he is overpaid, then who would want him?

Marion may be overpaid, but it does not mean he is not a very good player. He scores (19 ppg), rebounds (9.1 rpg), blocks shots, plays defense, and is the team's best free throw shooter (87.9%). He runs the floor and is great on the fast break. He shoots 44% from the field and would do even better if he'd stop shooting 3's. These numbers are not bad for a guy who did not play well the first month of the season.

I disagree that Marion is not improving. His turnovers are down and his blocks are up over past years. The only area he is substantially down over last year is 3 point shooting and even that is up over what he was doing early in the year.

Who would you trade Marion for? There are only about a dozen to 14 players that would be more productive to the Suns:

Shaq
Duncan
Garnett
J. O'Neal
Kolbe
T-Mac
Ray Allen
Zack Randolf
Dirk N
Magloire
Brad Miller
Ben Wallace
Paul Pierce
Ron Artest

Some are more expensive, some less. No one is going to trade any of these guys unless they have to no matter what is being offered. (Magloire will be a free agent this summer and you can expect a feeding frenzy for him).

Unless you are talking about getting one of these guys, I don't see any point in talking about trading Marion.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Originally posted by George O'Brien

Kobe
T-Mac
Ray Allen

Magloire
Brad Miller
Ben Wallace
Ron Artest

the first set above i'd consider trading marion and our 1st rounder (if we win the lotto) or a couple firsts w/ marion.

the second set i'd think about trading marion straight up for.

 

[slinslin]

Ray Allen is only marginally better if at all.

Magloire, Artest aren't nearly enough for Marion straight up.

Ben Wallace would suck for the Suns.
Teams would leave him totally open and continue to collapse on Amare and Steph.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Originally posted by slinslin
Ray Allen is only marginally better if at all.

Magloire, Artest aren't nearly enough for Marion straight up.

Ben Wallace would suck for the Suns.
Teams would leave him totally open and continue to collapse on Amare and Steph.

ray may be a marginally better talent, but i think he fits the team better. he's a great shooter. with him around teams are less likely to collapse the lane around amare and clog it against marbury's drives. marion doesn't offer the same sort of threat.

magloire, just being a legit center, would be enough for me to do straight up.

artest is a bit of a stretch, i'll admit.

and i meant to remove ben wallace from that list. actually, i thought it was rasheed wallace.

 

[sly fly]

I'd trade Marion for Corey Magette.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
(Magloire will be a free agent this summer and you can expect a feeding frenzy for him).

I am almost positive he was signed to an extension in the very beginning of the season. At least 3 years I believe.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
I am almost positive he was signed to an extension in the very beginning of the season. At least 3 years I believe.

I think you are thinking of PJ Brown - four years at $8 million.

New Orleans Salaries

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by sly fly
I'd trade Marion for Corey Magette.

Ignoring the relative salaries, Magette shoots better but is no where close to Marion when it comes to rebounding and blocked shots.

 

[newfan101]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
I think you are thinking of PJ Brown - four years at $8 million.

New Orleans Salaries

Actually, Magloire did sign an extension. http://www.nba.com/hornets/news/031029_magloire.html



Also, how did Predrag Stojakovic get left off that list?

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by newfan101
Actually, Magloire did sign an extension. http://www.nba.com/hornets/news/031029_magloire.html



Also, how did Predrag Stojakovic get left off that list?

I was confused because NO did not release the details.

Predrag Stojakovic is really turning into a great player, although I'm not sure I would make the trade. The Suns have a real problem on rebounding and Pedrag is nowhere near Marion on the boards. In practical terms, I think Zarko will become a similar type of player only taller.

 

[newfan101]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
I was confused because NO did not release the details.

Predrag Stojakovic is really turning into a great player, although I'm not sure I would make the trade. The Suns have a real problem on rebounding and Pedrag is nowhere near Marion on the boards. In practical terms, I think Zarko will become a similar type of player only taller.

Interesting. I think he is the best small forward in the game, and he makes almost half as much as Marion. Great shooters are almost impossible to find anymore, and he might be the best around right now. His ability to consistantly spread the floor with his outside shooting is, in my opinion, much more important to the success of a team than a couple of rebounds. Especially at the small forward position.

I do agree that Zarko may eventually turn into a player very similar to Peja, and it's that reason that I feel eventually Marion could be expendable. Also, I realize this is just a hypothetical thread, but in the real world, Sacramento would never trade Peja for Marion, especially when you factor in the contracts. I think the Suns, however, would make that trade in a heartbeat. You can never underestimate the value of a great shooter.

 

[cly2tw]

Trade Marion! We can find players of better fit to our core with that money. Don't get blinded by the absolute statistics.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by cly2tw
Trade Marion! We can find players of better fit to our core with that money. Don't get blinded by the absolute statistics.

My guess is that Marion will return to his career percentages: 46.4% from the field and 35.2% for 3's. Not as good as Stojakovic, but not bad. Predrag does not have a rep for being an exceptional defender nor is he as good a rebounder.

The real isssue here is not Marion but the fact that the Suns need more consistent outside shooting from the guard position. None of the Suns SG's are consistent from the outside. Penny is a classic example. He is hitting 44% from the field, but was 3 of 8 against the Sixers, 2 of 7 against the Sonics, 0 of 7 against the Lakers, 1 of 7 against the Heat, 4 of 12 against the Nets, and 4 of 11 against the Wolves.

My goal is not to bash Penny. He is shooting better than JJ and brings a lot of great experience to the court. But the fact that none of the Suns guards are pure shooters does not negate the incredible talent that Marion represents.

 

[Joe Mama]

Well, every NBA player is going to have several nights where they do not too well. Since he struggled early on in the season I've been pretty happy with Hardaway and his shooting consistency. No, the problem with Hardaway has more to do with his defense.

Joe Mama

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by cly2tw
Trade Marion! We can find players of better fit to our core with that money. Don't get blinded by the absolute statistics.

....................

 

[Chaz]

Originally posted by cly2tw
Trade Marion! We can find players of better fit to our core with that money. Don't get blinded by the absolute statistics.

Patience.

I understand the need to compare Marion to other players in the salary context, but lets be real.
Marion is not being traded anytime soon. The Suns management has made a committment now and it is too early to reverse course and trade him. Especially since he is a BYC player.

Marion is only worth trading at this point if you can get a much better player.

McGrady, Allen, Duncan, Bryant, etc.....there are many more that could help this team. As long as the chemistry is good and he stays out of trouble he will be here a while for sure.

As for the salary I dont pretend to be a capologist but compared to some other players on the team he is putting up numbers for his dollars.

 

[George O'Brien]

I'm not blasting Penny. I'm just saying that he is not the kind of pure shooter that rarely has bad nights and can always make his own shot. Otherwise, the zones would not cause so much trouble.

 

[Chaz]

BTW Marion for Peja. you bet.

With the potential for Zarko to get the boards and putbacks it would be nice to have someone that deadly from the outside.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by SirChaz
BTW Marion for Peja. you bet.

With the potential for Zarko to get the boards and putbacks it would be nice to have someone that deadly from the outside.

Agreed. It would be nice to have someone deadly from the outside. Is there any reason to believe that this will come by trading Marion next summer?

I'm not sure what kind of player Zarko will be next year. The scouting reports prior to the draft expressed concern that in Europe he did not rebound like you would expect from someone 6'11". He's listed at 235, but that may be high.

If Zarko becomes stronger and put on about 15 pound, he could be a dominate "quick" center. Imagine a center who could shoot threes, drive the basket, run the the break, and block shots. However, it only works if he can play defense.

So far we have not seen enough of Zarko to know how well he can play defense at the SF postion much less center. I suspect he will not be ready to play 35 minutes a game for another year, but he will certainly be a big boost off the bench.