Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[BritCard]

Did you break down his 40 yard TD run?

Why would I? One great play a game doesn't absolve the many that he screws up.

Mahomes has 6 TDs and 8 picks. That would be a more interesting breakdown.

Mahomes had a HoF career my year 5. Kyler is in year 6 and hasn't improved since year 3, in fact, he may have regressed.

 

[SECTION 11]

One great play a game can also win a game.

 

[Stout]

Why would he do that it doesn't jive with his agenda.

And comparing KM to Mahommey is like comparing an art workshop teacher to Picasso

 

[BritCard]

One great play a game can also win a game.

It can, if your defense can keep the other team contained because of all the plays you missed in the passing game.

You know what's more likely to win lots of games? Kyler making a great play with his legs AND being a competent passer of the football.

 

[BritCard]

Believe Kurt, he picks all the plays I did and has mostly the same issues.

It's like Kyler doesn't know what's going to happen before the snaps, and it just playing on what he sees.

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[602 Native]

And comparing KM to Mahommey is like comparing an art workshop teacher to Picasso

Its almost like comparing the Chiefs to the Cardinals.

Also you are confusing my posts but that is on brand.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Believe Kurt, he picks all the plays I did and has mostly the same issues.

It's like Kyler doesn;t know what's going to happen before the snaps, and it just playing on what he sees.

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Brit… come on… never-was-backup Dan Orlovsky knows more about QB’s and football in his pinkie fingernail than multiple MVP and Super Bowl champ Kurt Warner.

 

[WisconsinCard]

I just watched it. It's interesting that someone posted yesterday that the pocket breaks down in like 3.2 seconds for Kyler, while the league average was 5 seconds. That would directly contradict what Gambo is saying here. It the WR is open after the 3.2 second, or after he make a cut as Gambo says, then Kyler is already scrambling and looking for his safety valve. Sounds like a protection issue to me then.

If true it could be a simple case of not knowing how to read the defense pre-snap. Not throwing with anticipation. Or not reading the defense correctly post-snap. There could be several meaning behind this, but I doubt this was put out by cardinal brass. Probably Gambo looking for clicks.

 

[Chopper0080]

Believe Kurt, he picks all the plays I did and has mostly the same issues.

It's like Kyler doesn;t know what's going to happen before the snaps, and it just playing on what he sees.

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Worth a watch. Highlights some things about Kyler currently as a passer and our design. Highlight some positives as well.

EDIT. Some of the talking points makes me question the QB and WR positional coaches. There is some nuance that Petzing probably isn't involved with but the positional coaches need to know and coach.

 

[Chopper0080]

Really highlights the variety of issues that are impacting the offense as a whole.

 

[602 Native]

Really highlights the variety of issues that are impacting the offense as a whole.

I think it is just a perfect storm.

QB, Coordinator, Rookie WR.

I was fully expecting that MHJ would be DHop for K1 and it just hasn’t materialized.

 

[Stout]

Its almost like comparing the Chiefs to the Cardinals.

Also you are confusing my posts but that is on brand.

Lighten up, Francis It was tongue in cheek, thus the wink smilie.

 

[BritCard]

Does nobody else watch QB's like Stafford and Darnold last night and not instantly see a massive differences in QB play? I'm not talking results so WR's are not involved, I'm talking QB play.

The pocket presence, the ability to go through progressions, the timing, the quality and variety of passing, the ability to fit balls into tight windows.

It's just night and day for me. To see what's wrong you just have to watch QB's doing it well.

 

[602 Native]

Does nobody else watch QB's like Stafford and Darnold last night and not instantly see a massive differences in QB play? I'm not talking results so WR's are not involved, I'm talking QB play.

The pocket presence, the ability to go through progressions, the timing, the quality and variety of passing, the ability to fit balls into tight windows.

It's just night and day for me. To see what's wrong you just have to watch QB's doing it well.

We beat the Rams like a drum earlier in the season.

You know why?

They were injured and without oline dline and their two best weapons.

Please give me Jefferson, Kupp, Addison, and Nukua, and those lines.

Dear Lord

 

[Shane]

We beat the Rams like a drum earlier in the season.

You know why?

They were injured and without oline dline and their two best weapons.

Please give me Jefferson, Kupp, Addison, and Nukua, and those lines.

Dear Lord

The only people the Rams were missing in week 2 at game time was their starting G Kevin Dotson. No DL were even on the injury report. Only “star” Nacua was out. And their NCB whose name I can’t remember. Granted they did lose Kupp I think in the 2nd. But we were well on our way to destroying them by then. The D was pretty freaking healthy overall.

 

[602 Native]

The only people the Rams were missing in week 2 at game time was their starting G Kevin Dotson. No DL were even on the injury report. Only “star” Nacua was out. And their NCB whose name I can’t remember. Granted they did lose Kupp I think in the 2nd. But we were well on our way to destroying them by then. The D was pretty freaking healthy overall.

Now do the Vikings

 

[BritCard]

We beat the Rams like a drum earlier in the season.

You know why?

They were injured and without oline dline and their two best weapons.

Please give me Jefferson, Kupp, Addison, and Nukua, and those lines.

Dear Lord

Now do the Vikings

What part of QB play not results did you have difficulty understanding?

 

[602 Native]

What part of QB play not results did you have difficulty understanding?

Not a single WR on the Cards stacks up to what the Rams and Vikings have.

Not to mention their great Coaches and owners.

You want to put a large weight on K1 and then say lift it by yourself.

Sam Darnold was a junk QB playing for junk franchises before going to a great organization like the Vikes and have success. It’s why I can’t take a single thing you say seriously.

 

[kerouac9]

You want to put a large weight on K1 and then say lift it by yourself.

Bro take a chill pill. It’s okay to accept that Kyler Murray is a non traditional QB. So is Lamar Jackson, and he’s a two-time MVP and likely Hall of Famer.

I wish Kyler did more of the traditional QB things because it sure seems to be correlated with good passing games.

 

[Chopper0080]

I think it is just a perfect storm.

QB, Coordinator, Rookie WR.

I was fully expecting that MHJ would be DHop for K1 and it just hasn’t materialized.

That's why I liked the video. It highlights several small issues that just highjack the offense as a whole. When Kyler, MHJ, and the play call are good, the o-line struggles. When the play call, MHJ, and o-line are good, Kyler has one of his inaccurate passes. When the o-line, play call, and Kyler are good, then MHJ or another WR drops it. Then sometimes the play calls are just meh.

 

[602 Native]

Bro take a chill pill. It’s okay to accept that Kyler Murray is a non traditional QB. So is Lamar Jackson, and he’s a two-time MVP and likely Hall of Famer.

I wish Kyler did more of the traditional QB things because it sure seems to be correlated with good passing games.

“Chill”

You upset?

 

[Chopper0080]

Bro take a chill pill. It’s okay to accept that Kyler Murray is a non traditional QB. So is Lamar Jackson, and he’s a two-time MVP and likely Hall of Famer.

I wish Kyler did more of the traditional QB things because it sure seems to be correlated with good passing games.

This is why I wish they would use Kyler more like the Ravens use Lamar in the running game. Just lean into what he is special at which will minimize his limitations as a passer.

I also feel a more traditional QB gets you more consistent offense, but Kyler just hasn't shown he can be that. And the offensive personnel is fine. Better to just dump resources into the OL, RB and defense than trying to stack the WR room full of guys Kyler (edit: and the offensive scheme) can't really maximize.

 

[kerouac9]

This is why I wish they would use Kyler more like the Ravens use Lamar in the running game. Just lean into what he is special at which will minimize his limitations as a passer.

I also feel a more traditional QB gets you more consistent offense, but Kyler just hasn't shown he can be that. And the offensive personnel is fine. Better to just dump resources into the OL, RB and defense than trying to stack the WR room full of guys Kyler (edit: and the offensive scheme) can't really maximize.

Yeah you worry about injury doing that but Kyler probably has a higher BMI than Lamar if he’s truly 6’2” and 205 lbs.

Someone (Kevin Clark maybe but probably not actually) said that Kyler is the “lightning” to Conner’s “thunder.” That sounded accurate.

Still, you have to have an answer on second and eight or first and 15 of there’s a pre-snap penalty. It just seems like investing a top 4 pick in a WR who doesn’t look any different than Michael Wilson was a mistake RN.

 

[BritCard]

This is why I wish they would use Kyler more like the Ravens use Lamar in the running game. Just lean into what he is special at which will minimize his limitations as a passer.

I also feel a more traditional QB gets you more consistent offense, but Kyler just hasn't shown he can be that. And the offensive personnel is fine. Better to just dump resources into the OL, RB and defense than trying to stack the WR room full of guys Kyler (edit: and the offensive scheme) can't really maximize.

I think your being a bit harsher on the "scheme" that the Warner video is. The general gist of the video was that the scheme was fine and people were getting open. He highlighted one play at length where the route combination didn't make sense, it didn't make sense so much that I'd favour Dortch ran the route wrong and another where the WR broke at 7 yards instead of 10+, which again my be the route was run wrong.

The scheme was generally fine and people were frequently open.

He does however call some bad plays. That Conner wildcat with Kyler running a sweep was pure garbage in both design and when he called it. And running two Tune QB keeps in a row when he could have just handed it to Conner who was having a game.

But I think a lot of play callers have 1 or 2 of these in a game and they generally go unnoticed when your QB can throw the ball.

 

[BritCard]

“Chill”

You upset?

Are you a Kyler fan or a Cards fan? Which comes first for you?