Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[Stout]

I don’t know dude, watch the video for yourself to find out.

LOL Ya missed the beginning of my message. Or just wanted to be a jerk.

Edit: Or both? Hmm.

 

[football karma]

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with credit to Chris Sanders:

1. Trade Kyler for a draft pick in a weak QB draft
2. ?
3. Superbowl!

 

[SoonerLou]

Yeah. Having had a chance to watch the video, Gannon is literally making excuses for his QB. If your system takes three years to learn it’s prolly bad but Gannon is backing his guyZ

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Part of my lack of enthusiasm for this year is that maybe both QB and OC are subpar. Its why I wanted one of them gone this offseason so we can have a clear idea. Just for me even as a K1 fan I have no real anticipation to see him in this offense. And would have supported moving off him to see Drew with a QB that better fits his scheme.

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Problem for K1 is I don't think he is even aware of how to overcome the problem(s)

Cool that he wants to be more consistent; but he doesn't mention anything he's doing to get there - just "keep grinding" and the video shows him working out.

WE KNOW YOU LOVE TO WORK OUT, KYLER! BUT DO YOU LOVE TO STUDY???

While I would love for Kyler to study like Peyton Manning. I still think that is not the main issue and Cards staff seems to talk up his work ethic.

What is Kyler doing to overcome being a 5'10" QB when there is a muddy pocket. Thats ultimately where it starts and ends. There are fundamental elements to his game that he needs to change/overhaul in order to makeup for his lack of height.

 

[DVontel]

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Part of my lack of enthusiasm for this year is that maybe both QB and OC are subpar. Its why I wanted one of them gone this offseason so we can have a clear idea. Just for me even as a K1 fan I have no real anticipation to see him in this offense. And would have supported moving off him to see Drew with a QB that better fits his scheme.

Problem for K1 is I don't think he is even aware of how to overcome the problem(s)

While I would love for Kyler to study like Peyton Manning. I still think that is not the main issue and Cards staff seems to talk up his work ethic.

What is Kyler doing to overcome being a 5'10" QB when there is a muddy pocket. Thats ultimately where it starts and ends. There are fundamental elements to his game that he needs to change/overhaul in order to makeup for his lack of height.

The thing is

I do think Kyler has been studying. Studying hard. However, his physical disadvantages are too much to overcome. So, at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter how much studying has been happening when you can’t overcome what physical body aspect.

 

[gimpy]

Well, DV, I think there have been a couple (maybe not many) of qb's that have overcome that shortcoming( ).

 

[kerouac9]

Part of my lack of enthusiasm for this year is that maybe both QB and OC are subpar. Its why I wanted one of them gone this offseason so we can have a clear idea. Just for me even as a K1 fan I have no real anticipation to see him in this offense. And would have supported moving off him to see Drew with a QB that better fits his scheme.

I think the challenge is that I think that our QB and OC are actually exactly par. It's much easier to get where you want to go when one or both are clearly in the top quartile in their roles, but now we have to have an elite running game and/or defense to support these guys. Be physically superior.

It's a harder row to hoe, but the movement and objective is clear if and when you have a known commodity in those roles, too.

The thing is

I do think Kyler has been studying. Studying hard. However, his physical disadvantages are too much to overcome. So, at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter how much studying has been happening when you can’t overcome what physical body aspect.

I know you want to believe that. Showing him studying and breaking down film is not visually compelling. But it would be extremely easy for someone on this staff to complement how hard Kyler is working on the mental aspect of the game how he's leading in the film room, etc., etc.

Shame on the local press not to ask about it.

 

[BirdGangThing]

I think the challenge is that I think that our QB and OC are actually exactly par. It's much easier to get where you want to go when one or both are clearly in the top quartile in their roles, but now we have to have an elite running game and/or defense to support these guys. Be physically superior.

It's a harder row to hoe, but the movement and objective is clear if and when you have a known commodity in those roles, too.



I know you want to believe that. Showing him studying and breaking down film is not visually compelling. But it would be extremely easy for someone on this staff to complement how hard Kyler is working on the mental aspect of the game how he's leading in the film room, etc., etc.

Shame on the local press not to ask about it.

that's the thing right - two different types of qb pressure - organic pressure with the defensive player(s) winning the one on ones - there's nothing a qb can do about that - just ask maholmes

then there's the other - with the pressure being dialed up - but if you study and know where it's going to come from you can utilize such information and burn the blitz - we haven't seen kyler do that

 

[netsnjkidd]

The thing is

I do think Kyler has been studying. Studying hard. However, his physical disadvantages are too much to overcome. So, at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter how much studying has been happening when you can’t overcome what physical body aspect.

I don't know about I've been watching some bryce young film he doesn't really have these disadvantages even though kyler has better physical advantages then him

 

[DVontel]

I don't know about I've been watching some bryce young film he doesn't really have these disadvantages even though kyler has better physical advantages then him

I mean, we still don’t know if Bryce Young is good or not. He has yet to play at the peak of Kyler despite his late season turnaround last year. Not a good example imo.

 

[DVontel]

I know you want to believe that.

It’s not that I want to believe that, it’s that we’re most likely forced to believe that.

 

[kerouac9]

I mean, we still don’t know if Bryce Young is good or not. He has yet to play at the peak of Kyler despite his late season turnaround last year. Not a good example imo.

100% Bryce Young had nine starts after he was benched, went 3-6, completed 60.4% of his passes with 12 TDs, 6 INTs and 206 YPG. Yes, those appearances had more swag than he had at the beginning of his career, but he wasn't anyone's measure of "good."

Kyler was and is WAY, WAY better than Good Bryce.

 

[football karma]

in the spirit of getting this thread above 200 pages:

Kyler is in that tier of QBs that need a good cast around them. Thats ok-- plenty of those guys have won SuperBowls -- Matt Stafford and Jalen Hurts as examples.

Save the "Kyler is no Stafford or Hurts" -- each was surrounded by talent in those SB years that Kyler only came close to in 2021. And each of those guys regressed in years where the talent wasnt as good.

I think criticisms of Kyler in big games are legit. He has something to prove. I also think better rosters make big games easier to handle.

I think criticisms of him not doing great in a confined pocket are legit -- but its kinda true for nearly all QBs.

The offset is a kind of mobility that few other QBs have. I will accept some sub par play in the pocket for 1. A measured pass rush all game long that makes the o-line's job easier, and, 2. Mobility to turn a couple busted pass plays per game into first downs.

Finally -- I also think Kyler and Petzing need to take a bit of the Ravens philosophy: they are willing to accept putting Lamar at risk by running him. I dont think you match the Ravens volume of QB runs, but the Cards need to accept that 4-6 Kyler runs per game are necessary and simply accept the risk that he might get hurt.

 

[kerouac9]

Stafford has always been a tier above Kyler

 

[Stout]

The thing is

I do think Kyler has been studying. Studying hard. However, his physical disadvantages are too much to overcome. So, at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter how much studying has been happening when you can’t overcome what physical body aspect.

That, yes, and also his processing ability. No amount of study will significantly change how fast you can process what is happening before your eyes. A QB eventually reaches a ceiling there. Players like Manning had a very high ceiling. I think Kyler's is too low.

 

[football karma]

Stafford has always been a tier above Kyler

I agree Stafford is better

but Stafford rep with the Lions was "talented but bad decisions".

even in the SB year:

49ers’ Tartt takes responsibility for key dropped interception in loss to Rams

“Moment of truth showed and I didn’t step up,” Tartt said.

www.mercurynews.com

in an alternate universe, curious what Stafford's rep is had Tart held on to that ball.

 

[kerouac9]

I agree Stafford is better

but Stafford rep with the Lions was "talented but bad decisions".

even in the SB year:

49ers’ Tartt takes responsibility for key dropped interception in loss to Rams

“Moment of truth showed and I didn’t step up,” Tartt said.

www.mercurynews.com

in an alternate universe, curious what Stafford's rep is had Tart held on to that ball.

He was a Hall of Fame player before he ever went to the Rams. He was extremely productive even if the Lions were a flaming trash barge.

The next evolution of Matt Stafford is Justin Herbert.

Kyler is High Volatility Russ Wilson.

 

[netsnjkidd]

I mean, we still don’t know if Bryce Young is good or not. He has yet to play at the peak of Kyler despite his late season turnaround last year. Not a good example imo.

Yea it's still a small sample but he had games against big time defenses like chiefs and eagles that he was big time in especially with the weapons he has around him.

 

[kerouac9]

Yea it's still a small sample but he had games against big time defenses like chiefs and eagles that he was big time in especially with the weapons he has around him.

Bro in that KC game he was 21/35 for 263 yards, 1 TD, 0 INTs. The Panthers lead that game for exactly zero seconds.

Against the Eagles he was 19/34 (that's 56%) for 191 yards (average YPG was 217.6 across the NFL) with 1 TD and 1 INT.

What are we even talking about here?

 

[netsnjkidd]

Bro in that KC game he was 21/35 for 263 yards, 1 TD, 0 INTs. The Panthers lead that game for exactly zero seconds.

Against the Eagles he was 19/34 (that's 56%) for 191 yards (average YPG was 217.6 across the NFL) with 1 TD and 1 INT.

What are we even talking about here?i

In that game He had to match mahomes while playing against the chiefs defense thats top 10 and he kept them in that game throwing to david moore

In that game he had to match hurts and he did playing against eagles defense that's top 10 while throwing to 50yr old theilen.

What you watching? I didn't say his drew brees for a 2nd yr qb to do that after a benching were he might of been done playing in the nfl that's impressive.