Kyler Murray entering Draft

[TheCardFan]

Noted.
D Linemen can't use all their weight to fall on the QB anymore.

They can and they will...it might be a penalty sometimes.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Rosen's forte was that he got rid of the ball quickly and was capable of throwing lasers.

His weaknesses were in his decision-making, execution under pressure and inconsistent accuracy.

If the weaknesses can be eliminated or coached out of him, he can become our QBOF. If not, it's back to the drawing board and the loss of 2 or more years.

Which boils everything down to:

- Do we stay with Rosen and risk 2 or more wasted years?

- Or do we go with a relatively unknown entity with a 50-50 chance at stardom by using a high pick on Murray?

The reason why the Draft is more art than science is that either decision could be wrong (Or - both decisions could be right & both QB's could turn out to be superstars).

This is where all the hours of experience and due diligence by coaches and scouts come into play & where by-the-book principles collide with gut instincts and sage wisdom.

Anything can happen - I'll just say that the odds would favor sticking with Rosen and using the #1 pick on a blue-chip prospect to help bouy up another position. If I were totally up in the air about what I would do, I'd let the numbers work in my favor & go with this strategy.

The offensive line was so untenable last year that it's really hard to evaluate a young pocket passer. His accuracy issues have a lot to do with throwing off his back foot and throwing from an uneven base. Some of this is on Rosen; the great QBs are much better at this than the average QB, but even they struggle if they have to throw this way all of the time.

Why would the team throw ANOTHER high pick at a player that will have to play in the same situation. Sure, Murray might be more successful at this than Rosen, but he has the limitation that he is often going to have to get out the pocket just to see over the line.

Murray has the advantage of playing at a program that often is much more talented than their competition. This will not be the case in the NFL. We have yet to see how Murray will handle this. It's a big question, especially considering his obvious height disadvantage.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

The offensive line was so untenable last year that it's really hard to evaluate a young pocket passer. His accuracy issues have a lot to do with throwing off his back foot and throwing from an uneven base. Some of this is on Rosen; the great QBs are much better at this than the average QB, but even they struggle if they have to throw this way all of the time.

Why would the team throw ANOTHER high pick at a player that will have to play in the same situation. Sure, Murray might be more successful at this than Rosen, but he has the limitation that he is often going to have to get out the pocket just to see over the line.

Murray has the advantage of playing at a program that often is much more talented than their competition. This will not be the case in the NFL. We have yet to see how Murray will handle this. It's a big question, especially considering his obvious height disadvantage.

Why do you keep typing the bolded line above Krang? Do you think the defensive lineman in the NFL are 5 inches taller than the guys in college? They're not. They are basically the same height.

If you're going to argue against Murray, at least be fair man.

 

[Southpaw]

Tavon Austin, I remember his draft hype, a certain poster here thought he would be a 2000 all purpose yard guy as a rookie.

Was that me?

I actually liked the guy. Did not know he was a knucklehead who couldn't handle the complexities of a playbook. Now that is a candidate for All Bust Team.

 

[Southpaw]

Do you think the defensive lineman in the NFL are 5 inches taller than the guys in college? They're not. They are basically the same height.

I would suggest that, yes, the ones who make it to the NFL are and are more skilled at that level.

 

[Zeno]

Was that me?

I actually liked the guy. Did not know he was a knucklehead who couldn't handle the complexities of a playbook. Now that is a candidate for All Bust Team.

No, wasn't you I was thinking of.

Same poster also said the good thing about drafting Mathieu was he was the perfect counter to Austin

 

[Krangodnzr]

Why do you keep typing the bolded line above Krang? Do you think the defensive lineman in the NFL are 5 inches taller than the guys in college? They're not. They are basically the same height.

If you're going to argue against Murray, at least be fair man.

That's not the issue. The issue is that a guy his size has to move around just to see over slightly crouched 6'5 guys. It's harder to do that in the NFL than in college. Watch Russell Wilson, he moves out of the pocket to see down the field all of the time and he's probably 2 inches taller than Murray (and almost 40 lbs heavier).

This is why height is held against QBs if they are short. It can be done, but in the history of the NFL, very few guys 6'0 and below have ever had sustained success doing it.

 

[Ronin]

They can and they will...it might be a penalty sometimes.

Unless your name is Clay Matthews. Who gets a penalty flag everytime he looks at a QB.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

That's not the issue. The issue is that a guy his size has to move around just to see over slightly crouched 6'5 guys. It's harder to do that in the NFL than in college. Watch Russell Wilson, he moves out of the pocket to see down the field all of the time and he's probably 2 inches taller than Murray (and almost 40 lbs heavier).

This is why height is held against QBs if they are short. It can be done, but in the history of the NFL, very few guys 6'0 and below have ever had sustained success doing it.

Nope.

Starting defensive lineman for the Patriots in the upcoming superbowl

Brown = 6 2
Flowers 6 2
Lawrence 6 4


Starting D line for Alabama in CFP game

Raekwon Davis = 6 7
Isaiah buggs = 6 5
Quinnen Williams = 6 4


Next argument please.

 

[AZCrazy]

His height won't be his problem. His general size will get him injured frequently. He'll be the next RGIII.

 

[BW52]

Nope.

Starting defensive lineman for the Patriots in the upcoming superbowl

Brown = 6 2
Flowers 6 2
Lawrence 6 4


Starting D line for Alabama in CFP game

Raekwon Davis = 6 7
Isaiah buggs = 6 5
Quinnen Williams = 6 4


Next argument please.

Homer showing much?Rah Rah Rah.

 

[Chopper0080]

Is anyone going to mention to overall lack of throwing attempts Murray had in college? As in like half of Rosen's attempts.

He has a crazy small sample size of work.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Is anyone going to mention to overall lack of throwing attempts Murray had in college? As in like half of Rosen's attempts.

He has a crazy small sample size of work.

I note that all of the mock drafts I've read to this point having him as the 3rd or 4th QB off the board.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Nope.

Starting defensive lineman for the Patriots in the upcoming superbowl

Brown = 6 2
Flowers 6 2
Lawrence 6 4


Starting D line for Alabama in CFP game

Raekwon Davis = 6 7
Isaiah buggs = 6 5
Quinnen Williams = 6 4


Next argument please.

What about seeing over his own oline?

You are proving nothing. He will still have to move around to see around much taller players. You can stick your head in the ground and ignore this aspect but for longer than you have been alive, football has cared about the height of a QB.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Is anyone going to mention to overall lack of throwing attempts Murray had in college? As in like half of Rosen's attempts.

He has a crazy small sample size of work.

And one major issue that has been unmentioned on this thread. One year as a full-time starter. One year as a part-time starter.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

What about seeing over his own oline?

You are proving nothing. He will still have to move around to see around much taller players. You can stick your head in the ground and ignore this aspect but for longer than you have been alive, football has cared about the height of a QB.

Lol...

This past season, about a billion times, I watched murray stand in the pocket and complete passes to receivers.

You would have seen examples of this too, if you had spent any time watching him play.

If you don't believe me, then perhaps you'll believe your own eyes:

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

And the awesome thing is, is that you can extrapolate that highlight reel out to entire games, and that gives you a sense of how the kid played all season. QBR of 199.2. Historic.

Look man. I'm not saying his height won't be a detriment. It will.

What I'm saying is that he is so talented, that he will overcome this limitation, and that he has a chance to be a great QB in the NFL. That's it. If you disagree that he has a chance to be great, fine, but if your conclusion is based solely on the idea that he's "too short", I'm confident you're making a mistake.

 

[Southpaw]

You must be registered for see images attach

Just kidding. Love the commitment.

 

[juza76]

And one major issue that has been unmentioned on this thread. One year as a full-time starter. One year as a part-time starter.

i think its better having just 1 great year of college then 3 years of nothing special performances

 

[Praxis]

“Kyler is a freak,” Kingsbury told KLBK-TV in Lubbock, Texas, back in late October ahead of the Red Raiders’ clash with OU. “I’ve followed him since he was a sophomore in high school and just think the world of him and what he can do on a football field. I’ve never seen anyone better in high school and he’s starting to show it now at the college level. I don’t have enough good things to say about him. He’s phenomenal.”

” … I’ve never seen him have a poor outing, not one, which at quarterback, it’s impossible to do, but he’s done it. I’d take him with the first pick of the draft if I could. I know he’s signed up to play baseball, but he is a dominant football player, and I would take him with the first pick.”

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think there are easy arguments against Murray.

1) The Cardinals already have a QBOF on the roster that they draft last year
2) Murray IS unprecedently small for a successful NFL QB. 5'9 is quite a bit smaller than 6'0 which is considered really short for an NFL QB. Murray is a micro NFL QB
3) He is going to have to rely on athleticism in the NFL, and QBs who do that tend to not have the same success once they stop running all of the time
4) He was only good for ONE season in college football. He wasn't good earlier in his career.
5) He has baseball to fall back on. Until recently, he specifically stated he wanted to play baseball.
6) If you draft Murray, there will be a learning curve. The team already started the learning curve with Rosen. That means the team has to start over even before Rosen has a chance.
7) Rosen would be the 1st QB off the board this year. He was a significantly better prospect last year than any of the QBs this year.


I could go on, and on, and on. There are MANY reasons that drafting Murray would be a bad idea.

Yes I agree with most of those. Not sure that Rosen isn’t starting from scratch too this year. But missing out on the potential upside is the frightening thing for me. Even if Rosen ends up being very good if Murray ends up being generational it’ll be tough to accept. But truth is I don’t really care much. We are so bad that I suppose whatever happens happens. Ugh this is where I am with the cards. I can’t even get excited about having the first pick.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Bullcrap.I saw what I saw.I saw QB with skills who got saved quite often by his WRS.Your pimping for Murray is bordering on personal worship.Murray isn`t worthy of the top pick no matter how your rose-colored views may be.I do n`t have a personal dislike for the kid... ijust think he is not what the Cards need. for several reason and I have stated why I have doubts about his success in the NFL,If that what you call a personal dislike then that's your problem.Now you can put your little cheerleader uniform on and start your "Murray,Murray" chants.

Man I think your shade is clouding your perceptions. If the dude was 6’3 and didn’t have baseball I think there’s little doubt he’d be #1.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Why do you keep typing the bolded line above Krang? Do you think the defensive lineman in the NFL are 5 inches taller than the guys in college? They're not. They are basically the same height.

If you're going to argue against Murray, at least be fair man.

Actually the average height of an NCAA offensive lineman is 6’4 and defensive lineman is 6’3. Average height of NFL lineman (both sides) is 6’5. So in average an inch and half taller for NFL. So maybe not a ridiculous 5 inches taller but a significant amount for a very small QB. Dude, he’s really small. It is what it is. I’d stop arguing that point because you’re not going to make him taller. Keep arguing his positives.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Lol...

This past season, about a billion times, I watched murray stand in the pocket and complete passes to receivers.

You would have seen examples of this too, if you had spent any time watching him play.

If you don't believe me, then perhaps you'll believe you're own eyes:

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

And the awesome thing is, is that you extrapolate that highlight reel out to entire games, and that gives you a sense of how the kid played all season. QBR of 199.2. Historic.

Look man. I'm not saying his height won't be a detriment. It will.

What I'm saying is that he is so talented, that he will overcome this limitation, and that he has a chance to be a great QB in the NFL. That's it. If you disagree that he has a chance to be great, fine, but if your conclusion is based solely on the idea that he's "too short", I'm confident you're making a mistake.

I can’t watch this without thinking of all of those Wide Receivers that made him look so awesome. He should have given them the Heisman.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Dr. Jones]

Yes I agree with most of those. Not sure that Rosen isn’t starting from scratch too this year. But missing out on the potential upside is the frightening thing for me. Even if Rosen ends up being very good if Murray ends up being generational it’ll be tough to accept. But truth is I don’t really care much. We are so bad that I suppose whatever happens happens. Ugh this is where I am with the cards. I can’t even get excited about having the first pick.

It’s Doncic vs Ayton all over again. The Suns chose safe...... pedestrian..... NBA past.


I fear the Cards will do the same. Tall pocket passer vs The possible future of the position.

Even Igor vs KK is similar. I’m sure Igor wanted Luka and KK, while saying the right things in the media, quietly is advocating for a player like KM.

 

[Mainstreet]

It would be nice to be sure the Cardinals have their QBOTF on their roster.

If the Cardinals miss on a lineman (whatever) with the #1 pick they will recover.

However, if the Cardinals don't have their quarterback they will be hurting for years.

If there is a chance Murray can be that guy, the Cardinals will be kicking themselves if they pass on him.

I'm not saying Rosen can't be that guy but why chance it.