Kyler Murray entering Draft

[The Kraken]

I'm just going to say it..... If Kyler does what I think he will do at the combine, he will quickly become the #1 QB prospect in this draft and the buzz at the top of the draft will grow to a roar.

I bet he runs a 4.3 to 4.4 with some insanely timed short shuttles and shiftiness drills. If he also throws with high end velocity, we may be in for a ton of soul-searching about what we want our offense to look like in 2019. And if we are willing to go non-conventional in our Head Coaching hire..... Why would we be so adamant to be so conventional in our #1 QB?

I will reserve judgement.... But if we can get a top 20 pick for Rosen, and an extra year of rookie contract scale, and a better fit for our offense at QB all at the same time. I would do it and not even blink.

I am just curious Dr. Jones, what makes you think Murray is a better fit in C2K's version of the Air Raid?

We all saw the markable growth that Jared Goff (an air raid QB) had once Jeff Fisher was finally axed and they brought in the right fit to work with their young investment...

If you do not see that MB and SK are using the same methodology that the Rams used then I don't know what to tell you...we are enamored with Murray's gifts...will they translate to the NFL...unknown...but if you are ready to give up on Rosen because McCoy and Leftwich were unable to develop him, then you are IMO putting way too much stock in those two OCs abilities...

I think we will continue to follow the Ram's methodology, hope that C2K has the same touch that McVay had with Goff and use the draft to fill the OTHER multitude of holes on our roster...

My .02

 

[Zeno]

I'm just going to say it..... If Kyler does what I think he will do at the combine, he will quickly become the #1 QB prospect in this draft and the buzz at the top of the draft will grow to a roar.

I bet he runs a 4.3 to 4.4 with some insanely timed short shuttles and shiftiness drills. If he also throws with high end velocity, we may be in for a ton of soul-searching about what we want our offense to look like in 2019. And if we are willing to go non-conventional in our Head Coaching hire..... Why would we be so adamant to be so conventional in our #1 QB?

I will reserve judgement.... But if we can get a top 20 pick for Rosen, and an extra year of rookie contract scale, and a better fit for our offense at QB all at the same time. I would do it and not even blink.

How does Murray fit an Air Raid better than Rosen? it seems to me the 2 biggest “must haves” in that type of offense is quick release and accuracy. This isn’t an offense set up for running QBs so his timed 40 will make no difference especially when he measures shorter than any successful QB ever has.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Danny Weurffel won the freaking Heisman, too.

And Matt Leinart...and Sam Bradford...

 

[Krangodnzr]

The two QBs in the Super Bowl are both tall pocket passers. It's still the best physical makeup for a QB.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I am just curious Dr. Jones, what makes you think Murray is a better fit in C2K's version of the Air Raid?

We all saw the markable growth that Jared Goff (an air raid QB) had once Jeff Fisher was finally axed and they brought in the right fit to work with their young investment...

If you do not see that MB and SK are using the same methodology that the Rams used then I don't know what to tell you...we are enamored with Murray's gifts...will they translate to the NFL...unknown...but if you are ready to give up on Rosen because McCoy and Leftwich were unable to develop him, then you are IMO putting way too much stock in those two OCs abilities...

I think we will continue to follow the Ram's methodology, hope that C2K has the same touch that McVay had with Goff and use the draft to fill the OTHER multitude of holes on our roster...

My .02

How does Murray fit an Air Raid better than Rosen? it seems to me the 2 biggest “must haves” in that type of offense is quick release and accuracy. This isn’t an offense set up for running QBs so his timed 40 will make no difference especially when he measures shorter than any successful QB ever has.

@The Kraken & @Zeno My thinking is this:

McVay runs a completely different style of power running and play action passing. I don't honestly think you can compare the two offenses. Therefore, I really don't know how to think about SM vs. KK. It does speak to the ability to take an air raid QB and put him under center though.

KK for the most part, runs out of a shotgun offense. Which IMO will require an element of read-option that Rosen just doesn't posses. And will make the offense more dependent on the O-line to block, and WR's to get open. Collapsing outside rushers will never have to fear Rosen keeping the ball and scampering for those all-important 4 to 5 to 8 yard gains to the outside on 2nd and 3rd down when they over-commit to the RB.

As far as accuracy in college, there is no comparison.
JR: 60.95% completion https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/josh-rosen-1.html
KM: 69.8% https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/kyler-murray-1.html

The funny thing is the air yards. People think Air raid is all behind the line screens and high percentage passing but it really isnt. Josh Rosen is just above 8 air yards per pass while Kyler Murray was above 11.

Kyler had less passes last year. More yards. More TD's. Almost 10% higher comp percentage. Higher yards per pass. Less interceptions. And an overall higher rating by a mile.

And that is before we get to his other elite traits that Rosen simply will never posses. Speed, and change of direction shiftiness.

Personally...... I don't see why there is an argument here.

 

[Dr. Jones]

The two QBs in the Super Bowl are both tall pocket passers. It's still the best physical makeup for a QB.

Personally... that is just weak thinking.

One referee out of 5 doing their job combined with one D-end doing his job and you have an entirely different narrative here.

This could easily be about an under 6 foot QB going against the best Air Raid to NFL QB of all time.

 

[BW52]

Enough nonsense with the foolishness of QB Murray to the Cards.Let the midget fail somewhere else.THe NFL isn`t the big 12.Murray won`t be playing against a lot of guys who are going to be High School coaches or insurance salesmen.

 

[oaken1]

Enough nonsense with the foolishness of QB Murray to the Cards.Let the midget fail somewhere else.THe NFL isn`t the big 12.Murray won`t be playing against a lot of guys who are going to be High School coaches or insurance salesmen.

cracks me up some folks are so enamored of a pissant of a QB

 

[Krangodnzr]

Personally... that is just weak thinking.

One referee out of 5 doing their job combined with one D-end doing his job and you have an entirely different narrative here.

This could easily be about an under 6 foot QB going against the best Air Raid to NFL QB of all time.

Weak thinking? How so? Big strong pocket passers are still what wins in the NFL most. For every Drew Brees, there are 50 Chase Daniels.

 

[Krangodnzr]

@The Kraken & @Zeno My thinking is this:

McVay runs a completely different style of power running and play action passing. I don't honestly think you can compare the two offenses. Therefore, I really don't know how to think about SM vs. KK. It does speak to the ability to take an air raid QB and put him under center though.

KK for the most part, runs out of a shotgun offense. Which IMO will require an element of read-option that Rosen just doesn't posses. And will make the offense more dependent on the O-line to block, and WR's to get open. Collapsing outside rushers will never have to fear Rosen keeping the ball and scampering for those all-important 4 to 5 to 8 yard gains to the outside on 2nd and 3rd down when they over-commit to the RB.

As far as accuracy in college, there is no comparison.
JR: 60.95% completion https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/josh-rosen-1.html
KM: 69.8% https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/kyler-murray-1.html

The funny thing is the air yards. People think Air raid is all behind the line screens and high percentage passing but it really isnt. Josh Rosen is just above 8 air yards per pass while Kyler Murray was above 11.

Kyler had less passes last year. More yards. More TD's. Almost 10% higher comp percentage. Higher yards per pass. Less interceptions. And an overall higher rating by a mile.

And that is before we get to his other elite traits that Rosen simply will never posses. Speed, and change of direction shiftiness.

Personally...... I don't see why there is an argument here.

"Weak thinking"

You are comparing apples to monster trucks. Their offenses and personnel aren't comparable.

 

[TJ]

Not sure if I’m more disappointed that KK said what he said in October about Murray, or how our fans have seemingly reacted to an obvious hype video.

 

[Zeno]

This isn’t even a relevant argument because there is no way in Hell this team takes Murray...all just fantasy message board stuff.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Personally... that is just weak thinking.

One referee out of 5 doing their job combined with one D-end doing his job and you have an entirely different narrative here.

This could easily be about an under 6 foot QB going against the best Air Raid to NFL QB of all time.

Brees is not under 6 ft.

 

[ajcardfan]

Brees is not under 6 ft.

It will be interesting to see what he measures at the combine. Right now, he's listed as 5'11", which puts him right between Drew Brees and Doug Flutie.

 

[Zeno]

It will be interesting to see what he measures at the combine. Right now, he's listed as 5'11", which puts him right between Drew Brees and Doug Flutie.

He’s listed on the Oklahoma site as 5’ 10”, schools notoriously stretch the truth. As an example Gardner Minshew was listed as 6’ 2” and he measured. 6 7/8” at the Senior Bowl. Murray will be closer to 5’ 9” than he will be 5’ 11”.

To further make this an irrelevant argument is the fact we just brought in a QB coach that is as traditional as it gets.
the only non traditional guy he coached was Kordell Stewart and the year he had him he threw for the most yards of his career.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

cracks me up some folks are so enamored of a pissant of a QB

Were you equally unimpressed with Mayfield Zeno?

 

[Hoodhero]

Not sure if I’m more disappointed that KK said what he said in October about Murray, or how our fans have seemingly reacted to an obvious hype video.

Why would you be disappointed with KK for comments? It's just coach speak praising the opposition as per usual. I would be more pissed off with Schefter & his mindless speculation that started this whole mess

 

[The Kraken]

Dr. Jones,

I appreciate you articulating your point... I don't agree, there are too many variables to take into consideration, first and foremost, UCLA has been a mess for a while. I do not know if you watched Rosen at UCLA, but it is pretty hard to compare what he had to do with that team and popping Murray into a program firing on all cylinders.

A majority of CK2's QB's have not been exceptionally gifted runners (Manziel & Mayfield yes...Davis, Mahomes, Keenum no), Rosen will easily be able to execute this offense. He can make all of the throws...the MAJOR point I was making is NOW, he will have a coach that will be able to develop him.

Maybe Murray turns out to be a great QB, maybe not, who knows...I think he is a successful NCAA QB, who played on an explosive team, for ONE year...Sorry, I am not sold, I think Rosen will turn out to be a franchise QB, I think he will be able to execute the entire spectrum of CK2 wants to do.

My point regarding McVay was that he has demonstrated that he can develop his franchise QB (considering where Goff came from) there is no reason to doubt that if CK2 is who we think he is, that he will do the same.

 

[GatorAZ]

Murray is the better prospect but Rosen has a year of experience and fits the 6’3”/accurate/big-arm prototype. I’d be fine with either player but would prefer to stick with JR.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Brees is not under 6 ft.

I’ve met him. He’s most definitely not six feet tall. The buddy of mine that was with me was the same size if not taller and he’s 5-10.

 

[splitsecond]

Instead of debating whether Murray should replace anyone, what we should be doing is concentrating on perpetuating the idea that Murray is worthy of number one pick. We should be memeing him to number one until some team is convinced to dump the farm to trade up to get him at #1.

Let's do this boys and girls.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Murray is the better prospect but Rosen has a year of experience and fits the 6’3”/accurate/big-arm prototype. I’d be fine with either player but would prefer to stick with JR.

It really depends on who you ask. Each coach/coordinator will have attributes that they look for in a QB.

With Murray, he was highly successful running a scheme that isn't fully utilized in the NFL. There is no way to know whether he can have prolonged success playing the way he did at OU. Mayfield has had success, but the question is, why has he been a successful pro? What attributes have made him a successful pro? Work ethic? The want to?

Rosen has a lot of the classic attributes that teams look for. Big, great arm, very accurate. I listened to Carson Palmer talk QBs on Doug and Wolf yesterday and he talked about how difficult it is for a QB to be throwing off their back foot all the time. Few QBs are successful doing this. The difference between a Rosen and a Brady is that even when they don't have time, they have the ability to maneuver around the pocket and make throws. Rosen wasn't particularly good at this last year, but this a trait that can be developed through experience.

The reason I'm talking about Rosen, is that Rosen IS the QB of the Cardinals and will be the QB of the Cardinals. I think it would be silly to invest another draft pick in a QB that no one knows whether they would be successful or not. Maybe Murray is successful because of the amazing talent OU has, but would struggle throwing to Chad Williams and Trent Sherfield.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Instead of debating whether Murray should replace anyone, what we should be doing is concentrating on perpetuating the idea that Murray is worthy of number one pick. We should be memeing him to number one until some team is convinced to dump the farm to trade up to get him at #1.

Let's do this boys and girls.

It's way too early to think this IMO

Baker was barely top 10 this time last year.
Cam Newton wasn't the #1 pick right away either.

This stuff changes like the wind. And honestly, we all really have no idea what goes on in the back room. If he goes at 5 or 11 he could have just as easily gone at #1 with the importance of his position.

Personally though..... i wouldn't take him at 1. I would do Bosa and then get back up top for him later.

 

[ProdigalSun]

Keim is still the GM and he traded up to get Rosen last year. No way we take another QB high

 

[GuernseyCard]

I’ve met him. He’s most definitely not six feet tall. The buddy of mine that was with me was the same size if not taller and he’s 5-10.

Well, I guess playing in the NFL shortened him because he was a touch over 6 ft when he entered the League.