Kyler Murray, you will become a Cardinal. It is....

[b8rtm8nn]

Pretty good take on Rosen and Murray from a dude at FootballOutsiders. He personally would have Rosen as QB1 in this draft, would keep Rosen (although says the Cards/Kliff are fine to risk Murray), and points out both pros/cons of both players.

And I think, although it’s fun to ride the KM train, that Rosen has a similar risk profile that KM does based on what we know publicly. No choice at QB would surprise me next month.

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[Krangodnzr]

So...... I am part of a podcast network called Next Fan Up for thast 4 years or so. We have a weekly podcast with 32 contributing members. One superfan for each NFL team and I represent the Cardinals.

We are knee deep in our mock draft (each of us are the GM).

Here is what happened with Rosen:
I checked with the Dolphins, Bengals, Giants, Ravens, Broncos, Bucs, Jags, Pats, and Steelers. All of them laughed me out of the slack channel when I tried to get a 1st rounder.

I was able to get the giants Superfan to make two offers. Either their 2nd rounder, or their third rounder with Evan Engram.

I chose Engram & their 3rd rounder.

The entire channel said I won the trade and gave the Giants guy some crap. His defense is that the Tate signing made it clear that tanking wasn't their plan and that getting Rosen so cheap was a coup for them..

Fine.... Whatever..... Take it for what you will.

What do you guys think about that?

Rosen may not be valued by the rest of the NFL after last year.

p.s. Of course I took Kyler 1st.

I'd do Engram and a 3rd.

 

[Yuma]

They didn't convince me. I still think he is, but leverage can be a hard thing to obtain.

You take the deal that you can get..... Not what you think he's worth.

It's why some people can spend 100k on painting and others wont spend $20.

This whole last season the Suns needed a PG. Teams had them over a barrel over point guard since they didn't have one. So instead of overpaying they wasted a season.

 

[Jetstream Green]

If the Cardinals don't pull the trigger on Murray, their relationship with KK will never endure. Sure, KK will say all the right things, and try to fit a square peg into a round hole. But, it'll be an opportunity lost & KK will be hampered in the pursuit to get this franchise to the promised land. I'm done with trying to get better. I'm done with being a playoff team. I'm personally running out of time with that bs. We've been there with Wiz & BA. It's time to be great. The KM/KK combo is our best chance ever to get there.

Rosen is not a square peg to a KK offense and I think people are getting lost due to the scrambling QBs which have excelled in his offense, Murray simply might be a more dynamic fit but to say Rosen is not qualified is off

 

[slanidrac16]

We will never know the truth of the whole story. I believe the idea of hiring KK could have started back in October. Kingsbury never proclaimed to deem Rosen as a sure, fire can’t missed fit with his offense. He did proclaim he saw “ enough to work with” talent. I think KK has a closer relationship with Murray than we all know. The connect the dots of agents , Kingsbury hiring, Murray entering the nfl and forsaken baseball could be something that was set in motion a long time ago. Kingsbury could have convinced bidwill and Keim months ago that Murray was a way to go. It would be explained to Kingsbury that a tight lid would have to be kept on this in order to bargain with other teams and deal with all the smokescreens. Remember the marketing of all this. It also plays a big role in decision making.

 

[Krangodnzr]

With the #1 pick you take who you rate the best. If it isn't Murray, then I am going to assume he wasn't the best guys for the cards

You dont draft Jake Long when Matt Ryan is available.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Rosen is not a square peg to a KK offense and I think people are getting lost due to the scrambling QBs which have excelled in his offense, Murray simply might be a more dynamic fit but to say Rosen is not qualified is off

Murray is not a scrambling QB. To even mention that in the same sentence shows you fundamentally dont understand him.

He's a QB who can run, but he looks to stay in the pocket most of the time.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Murray is not a scrambling QB. To even mention that in the same sentence shows you fundamentally dont understand him.

He's a QB who can run, but he looks to stay in the pocket most of the time.

I do understand him because a majority of his passes where from the pocket, what I meant is the capability to scramble or hence run and it would be foolish not to label him as that or he would not have rushed for what he did as a QB... Kyler's passes from the pocket where above 80% but what I just said confirms that Rosen is not a odd fit

 

[Ohcrap75]

Listen to the man.

You dont go need when there is such a best player available gap.

Murray is worth probably double, if not triple the WAR impact of Bosa or Q Williams.

This is true, but you are only assuming positive. If he sucks, he has much more negative impact as well. Murray is like putting all your savings in Bitcoin

 

[Krangodnzr]

I do understand him because a majority of his passes where from the pocket, what I meant is the capability to scramble or hence run and it would be foolish not to label him as that or he would not have rushed for what he did as a QB... Kyler's passes from the pocket where above 80% but what I just said confirms that Rosen is not a odd fit

What I see is that I think Murray is actually going to be a better passer AND will probably net you 30-50 yards rushing a game. He's going to create MORE offense than Rosen is capable of.

You think teams are going to be able to run a base defense against Murray? LBs can't run with him. Teams might have to stay in nickel at all times, if not dime defenses.

Teams will likely try and keep a spy in but good luck trying to have a LB or S be the spy because they won't be able to keep up with Murray. That means teams will likely have to keep another CB, and that's going to open up more opportunities in the run game and pass game.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

You dont draft Jake Long when Matt Ryan is available.

Well Matt Ryan is a better player than Jake Long.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

What if the best kicker ever is available? Or the best Special teams player. He might be the best at his position? There are probably "better" players when Rivers came out but he probably has made the most impact for his team since he was drafted. Take the two best players from drafts that weren't QB's than take a draft where the QB is the best player and see which one made the most impact for their team.

Position does matter

Well I believe in using WAR so the best player should be determined by their WAR in relation to what you have already when putting together your draft board.

That basically does the weighting for you and explains why you don't spend high picks on low impact positions.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I was literally laughed out of the slack channel. To me, this is why all of the JR love here is a bit overblown IMO. these guys feel the same way about their QB and I think we would all say that they are crazy.

The Bucs, Bengals, & Dolphins fans all unanimously thought he was a total bust.

The Bengals guy wanted Dalton over him. Said Andy is a much better leader and thrower. I laughed.
The Dolphins guy said why would we not just tank for Tua and let Fitzmagic throw it all year.
The Bucs guy said Jameis is 10x better. I said are you sure? He said eff yes I'm sure! <-- Their version of bias IMO
Broncos guy gave it a thought but chose to rather have Lock or Jones over him. Said he would never give up his #1 for him. He got Lock in the Mock Draft.

Trust me.... Over a 2-week period...... I tried.

To be fair, I think NFL teams will have a higher opinion of Rosen than their fans would. They will watch Rosen's tape and see the NFL throws he makes at times. They will see the incompetent playcalling. They will see the poor running game and poor pass blocking.

Fans usually aren't smart enough to see the forest for the trees. All they look at is Rosen's stats and say "bleh he sucks!!!"

Broncos fan is an idiot. Jones is horrible. Lock has bust written all over him.
The other fans have a modicum of logic, but I don't know....I'm not a fan of Jameis and to bank on tanking for Tua (Dolphins) is stupid.

With QB take the sure thing first. Then if you see an upgrade, go for it.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Well Matt Ryan is a better player than Jake Long.

That wasn't the full sentiment back then.

Long was seen as the best player in that draft and Ryan was not a sure thing.

Long had higher grades. IMO if you need a QB, you take a QB even if other prospects have higher grades. The Cardinals AREN'T settled at QB. Maybe Josh settles the question this year, but if you have a shot at a better prospect right now, you take him.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Sure but analytics weren't being used then like they are now. Well hopefully they are being used now

 

[Krangodnzr]

This is true, but you are only assuming positive. If he sucks, he has much more negative impact as well. Murray is like putting all your savings in Bitcoin

I don't agree.

One thing that Keim is saying that is true, is that players fail more on character make up than anything else.

That is why I'm sold on Murray, I think he's a kid who has been groomed for this moment his entire life. Listen to what people who know him say about him. He's an extremely driven, competitive kid. Very football smart, he's been taught how to understand the QB position since he was a child.

His resume is nearly impeccable save his troubled start at Texas A&M.

 

[Chopper0080]

I think Rosen is better than Murray so...yeah, draft day is going to be a bitter pill to swallow.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I think Rosen is better than Murray so...yeah, draft day is going to be a bitter pill to swallow.

That's not a popular take outside of this board.

I started with the opinion that Rosen was better, but the more I looked at it, the more I couldn't reconcile that Rosen has never played even remotely as well as Murray played last year. I would agree that Rosen was better if I wasn't seeing Murray make NFL caliber throws, but he makes plenty of NFL throws. And then when you add in his unprecedented ability to run the ball, I don't see how Rosen is better.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Like I said I’ll will take more stock into what the majority of the experts say plus what I’ve seen for 7 years from him over what the naysayers & name callers say.

If we didn’t have K2 as HC & his offensive scheme I wouldn’t be quite as high on Murray

I'm wondering how much of the "air raid" offense Tom Clements will tell KK he thinks will work in the NFL? That was said when bringing him on board to be QB's coach, he was to mold the "air raid" (what he thinks will work in the NFL) with an NFL offense. I'm sure the play in the "air raid" where they run 4 verticle routes & can break them off at any point, depending on the coverage will work. Also the short passes, quick hitters. You're right, murray wouldn't even be considered imo if they were gonna run a west coast offense, the main offense Tom Clements ran in Green Bay. I'm excited about the offense they will run, nothing could be as bad as a Mike McCoy offense. That was horrible. Still think Byron Leftwich could've showed more potential in calling plays had he been allowed to run the BA offense he was taught. There was enough players left that knew the offense, even changing at game 4. As bad as they were at that time what would it hurt? Instead Wilks made him use the McCoy playbook.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

I'm for drafting Murray and trading Rosen, but what do I know, I'm just a fan. What disappoints me are all the posters on this Board, who are trying to pass themselves off as scouts with their opinions on Murray and Rosen. Whoever, becomes our starting QB will have my full support because I'm a Cardinals (since 1947) fan.

Go Big Red!

Since 1976 here. Jim Hart days.

 

[azsouthendzone]

Just heard Carson Palmer say he would draft Murray because he looks to be the best player in the draft and you have to take advantage of having the first pick... no Carson no, I like you man lol

I've always liked Carson.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

That's a strange way to view it. Kliff can be successful with Rosen in my opinion. We'll see if the owner and GM believe otherwise.

I agree but at the same time I have no choice but to get on board, at first anyways, with their pick. No matter who it is. No way Rosen doesn't succeed imo with more talent blocking for him & to throw to. The only thing Murray has on Rosen is scrambling ability & already being familiar with the "air raid".

 

[bojack]

Late to this thread... I'm assuming OP meant a St Louis Cardinal? Yes, I can see that happening after a season of running for his life from NFL defenses. If past is prologue it could even happen before he's due to report to NFL training camp.

 

[PACardsFan]

Rosen is not a square peg to a KK offense and I think people are getting lost due to the scrambling QBs which have excelled in his offense, Murray simply might be a more dynamic fit but to say Rosen is not qualified is off

Agree. That’s fair.

 

[POISON]

This is true, but you are only assuming positive. If he sucks, he has much more negative impact as well. Murray is like putting all your savings in Bitcoin

No it's putting your savings in the crappy quarterback we drafted last year. This clown would be lucky to fetch a 3rd round pick.