Kyler Murray, you will become a Cardinal. It is....

[dscher]

We will never know the truth of the whole story. I believe the idea of hiring KK could have started back in October. Kingsbury never proclaimed to deem Rosen as a sure, fire can’t missed fit with his offense. He did proclaim he saw “ enough to work with” talent. I think KK has a closer relationship with Murray than we all know. The connect the dots of agents , Kingsbury hiring, Murray entering the nfl and forsaken baseball could be something that was set in motion a long time ago. Kingsbury could have convinced bidwill and Keim months ago that Murray was a way to go. It would be explained to Kingsbury that a tight lid would have to be kept on this in order to bargain with other teams and deal with all the smokescreens. Remember the marketing of all this. It also plays a big role in decision making.

You also don't have your GM that could be on the hot seat come out on television and tell everyone he is your QB "right now" . I get the leveraging and that this is a business and a game this time of year.. but you just don't do that to your young qb that you believe in and want to be your Qbotf
But this has been beaten like a drum. So I won't keep going lol .Jmho

 

[dscher]

That wasn't the full sentiment back then.

Long was seen as the best player in that draft and Ryan was not a sure thing.

Long had higher grades. IMO if you need a QB, you take a QB even if other prospects have higher grades. The Cardinals AREN'T settled at QB. Maybe Josh settles the question this year, but if you have a shot at a better prospect right now, you take him.

Also... The league is taking a different approach nowadays and I think it will only be a matter of time before you see a team have a decent quarterback (Goff, trubisky) and instead of throwing max deals at them try and shop them and draft another equivalent on cheap rookie deals. I'm not the best with numbers and dead money and what not. But I read about this awhile back (about Goff) and if qbs are currency, then it might make sense.

 

[POISON]

Since 1976 here. Jim Hart days.

I've been the same, 3 years before you. I kind of miss the all white uniforms.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

I've been the same, 3 years before you. I kind of miss the all white uniforms.

I was upset when they changed from the 3 stripes on the pants, very upset when they changed the logo. I loved that logo, even though some people in Arizona thinks it looked like a parrot lol. Loved the red pants with the 3 traditional stripes. I love the bird logo now, took me a bit though lol. I wish the team would let me design the unis, I would keep the current logo but use the 3 stripes in a more modern way. I would also put the bird logo (the current one) back on the sleeve like the old one was. I've thought for yrs that the same traditional 3 stripes would look good on the helmet, plus make the facemask cardinal red.

 

[Jetstream Green]

No it's putting your savings in the crappy quarterback we drafted last year. This clown would be lucky to fetch a 3rd round pick.

I dig your player evaluations lol

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[PACardsFan]

I've been the same, 3 years before you. I kind of miss the all white uniforms.

They were the BEST!!! Our road uniforms suck right now.

 

[Jetstream Green]

They were the BEST!!! Our road uniforms suck right now.

That back and red on the stripes with the cardinal on the sleeve was sweet!

 

[PACardsFan]

I was upset when they changed from the 3 stripes on the pants, very upset when they changed the logo. I loved that logo, even though some people in Arizona thinks it looked like a parrot lol. Loved the red pants with the 3 traditional stripes. I love the bird logo now, took me a bit though lol. I wish the team would let me design the unis, I would keep the current logo but use the 3 stripes in a more modern way. I would also put the bird logo (the current one) back on the sleeve like the old one was. I've thought for yrs that the same traditional 3 stripes would look good on the helmet, plus make the facemask cardinal red.

You nailed it!!

 

[DVontel]

lol I like Kyler more than Rosen, but knowing we’re the Cardinals I fully expect Rosen to win 2 SBs with 1 of them involving knocking us out the playoffs while Kyler has a Rivers-like career.​

 

[Chopper0080]

That's not a popular take outside of this board.

I started with the opinion that Rosen was better, but the more I looked at it, the more I couldn't reconcile that Rosen has never played even remotely as well as Murray played last year. I would agree that Rosen was better if I wasn't seeing Murray make NFL caliber throws, but he makes plenty of NFL throws. And then when you add in his unprecedented ability to run the ball, I don't see how Rosen is better.

Many scouts say that Rosen had a higher grade than Murray does now. I agree with them. I saw Rosen make NFL throws amidst duress more often than Murray did in college, and I saw Rosen do the same in the pros last year. He made plays from the pocket even if they were few and far between. I watched Murray play one game vs superior talent and he was awful vs Alabama every time it mattered. I don't see him having more success when he gets to the NFL, he is put in more of those situations, and is facing an even greater size disadvantage. I don't see Murray as being able to survive the beating that Rosen took last year. I never saw Murray be the timing and rhythm QB in college that I believe you need to be to be successful in the pros.

Can Kyler Murray be successful? Sure, but it is going to take a superior drive to work on his game game that few guys have, even in the NFL. I don't think that is worth betting on. I think it is better to bet on the guy who has shown the ability at the pro level despite awful conditions. The guy in Rosen who has had to endure constant change over his college and NFL career. The constant pressure of being the guy even when he was dealt a less talented supporting cast. Murray transferred instead of beating out an incumbent and then still had to wait for the incumbent to graduate in order to get a starting spot. He has never once outworked the other guy to win the job. I'm going to go with the guy who has endured hardship and still elevated his game over the guy who has never once shown he can.

 

[Delmar M Lewis]

I dig your player evaluations lol

You must be registered for see images attach

Think that actually about right it's just a crap shoot

 

[Delmar M Lewis]

What if the best kicker ever is available? Or the best Special teams player. He might be the best at his position? There are probably "better" players when Rivers came out but he probably has made the most impact for his team since he was drafted. Take the two best players from drafts that weren't QB's than take a draft where the QB is the best player and see which one made the most impact for their team.

Position does matter

We tried that Steve Little

 

[HeHasRosen]

Many scouts say that Rosen had a higher grade than Murray does now. I agree with them. I saw Rosen make NFL throws amidst duress more often than Murray did in college, and I saw Rosen do the same in the pros last year. He made plays from the pocket even if they were few and far between. I watched Murray play one game vs superior talent and he was awful vs Alabama every time it mattered. I don't see him having more success when he gets to the NFL, he is put in more of those situations, and is facing an even greater size disadvantage. I don't see Murray as being able to survive the beating that Rosen took last year. I never saw Murray be the timing and rhythm QB in college that I believe you need to be to be successful in the pros.

Can Kyler Murray be successful? Sure, but it is going to take a superior drive to work on his game game that few guys have, even in the NFL. I don't think that is worth betting on. I think it is better to bet on the guy who has shown the ability at the pro level despite awful conditions. The guy in Rosen who has had to endure constant change over his college and NFL career. The constant pressure of being the guy even when he was dealt a less talented supporting cast. Murray transferred instead of beating out an incumbent and then still had to wait for the incumbent to graduate in order to get a starting spot. He has never once outworked the other guy to win the job. I'm going to go with the guy who has endured hardship and still elevated his game over the guy who has never once shown he can.

That is a great post @Chopper0080!

Literally the best assessment of this situation without the bias or rose colored glasses on. I agree 100% bro

 

[Krangodnzr]

Just heard Carson Palmer say he would draft Murray because he looks to be the best player in the draft and you have to take advantage of having the first pick... no Carson no, I like you man lol

Where did you hear this? I want to hear Palmers take. He's pretty smart on all things offensive football.

 

[Krangodnzr]

That is a great post @Chopper0080!

Literally the best assessment of this situation without the bias or rose colored glasses on. I agree 100% bro

You could argue that he DOES have rose colored glasses in favor of Rosen.

The analytics for Rosen are startling. He was the next to worst QB even when all variables were good. Outside of a few NFL caliber throws and pedigree, there is literally nothing to be excited about.

I disagree that Murray didnt make many NFL throws. He didnt have to often, but you can find examples of difficult throws in tight coverage.

I think one of the biggest draws to Murray is that we have already seen someone play in the same offense succeed in the NFL at a high level. Mayfield is a better thrower, but not by much, and Murray is a substantially better athlete.

 

[PACardsFan]

Many scouts say that Rosen had a higher grade than Murray does now. I agree with them. I saw Rosen make NFL throws amidst duress more often than Murray did in college, and I saw Rosen do the same in the pros last year. He made plays from the pocket even if they were few and far between. I watched Murray play one game vs superior talent and he was awful vs Alabama every time it mattered. I don't see him having more success when he gets to the NFL, he is put in more of those situations, and is facing an even greater size disadvantage. I don't see Murray as being able to survive the beating that Rosen took last year. I never saw Murray be the timing and rhythm QB in college that I believe you need to be to be successful in the pros.

Can Kyler Murray be successful? Sure, but it is going to take a superior drive to work on his game game that few guys have, even in the NFL. I don't think that is worth betting on. I think it is better to bet on the guy who has shown the ability at the pro level despite awful conditions. The guy in Rosen who has had to endure constant change over his college and NFL career. The constant pressure of being the guy even when he was dealt a less talented supporting cast. Murray transferred instead of beating out an incumbent and then still had to wait for the incumbent to graduate in order to get a starting spot. He has never once outworked the other guy to win the job. I'm going to go with the guy who has endured hardship and still elevated his game over the guy who has never once shown he can.

We can all agree to disagree, but Murray had a below average 1st quarter against Alabama. Bama D came out of the gates much better prepared than OU's offense. That was probably more to do with coaching than anything. Once adjustments were made, Murray dominated Alabama's D. With a better 1st quarter, Murray might have thrown for 400 in that game.

Everyone knew going into the draft last year that Rosen had skills that translated to the NFL. No one can question that even after the debacle we all had to witness last year. The only knock on Rosen was that he needed a clean pocket to be at his best. I've heard that said many times, both last year before the draft, and then again many times this year. He demonstrated more times than not, that he struggles without a clean pocket. So, my question is this: When was the last time a Cardinal QB threw from a clean pocket. Definitely, you have to go back to Jim Hart for that. Even Lomax didn't enjoy that luxury. If it's been over 45 years since we had the ability to create a clean pocket, is it even possible to think we can create that for Rosen now. In addition to all the skills that Murray brings to the table, the biggest is that we don't need a PERFECT O-line for him to be successful.

Look, no one can guarantee that Murray will be great. So much can happen. But he's always been the size he is & he's ALWAYS been great. I don't think that Rosen has ever been great, nor do I think he has a ceiling for that. What Carson Palmer said rings true. This isn't the 3rd, 4th, or 5th pick. This is the 1st pick & we may have to wait another 50 years to be in this position again. You have to take the guy who gives you the greatest potential for greatness. In this draft, that is Kyler Murray.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

We can all agree to disagree, but Murray had a below average 1st quarter against Alabama. Bama D came out of the gates much better prepared than OU's offense. That was probably more to do with coaching than anything. Once adjustments were made, Murray dominated Alabama's D. With a better 1st quarter, Murray might have thrown for 400 in that game.

Everyone knew going into the draft last year that Rosen had skills that translated to the NFL. No one can question that even after the debacle we all had to witness last year. The only knock on Rosen was that he needed a clean pocket to be at his best. I've heard that said many times, both last year before the draft, and then again many times this year. He demonstrated more times than not, that he struggles without a clean pocket. So, my question is this: When was the last time a Cardinal QB threw from a clean pocket. Definitely, you have to go back to Jim Hart for that. Even Lomax didn't enjoy that luxury. If it's been over 45 years since we had the ability to create a clean pocket, is it even possible to think we can create that for Rosen now. In addition to all the skills that Murray brings to the table, the biggest is that we don't need a PERFECT O-line for him to be successful.

Look, no one can guarantee that Murray will be great. So much can happen. But he's always been the size he is & he's ALWAYS been great. I don't think that Rosen has ever been great, nor do I think he has a ceiling for that. What Carson Palmer said rings true. This isn't the 3rd, 4th, or 5th pick. This is the 1st pick & we may have to wait another 50 years to be in this position again. You have to take the guy who gives you the greatest potential for greatness. In this draft, that is Kyler Murray.

Actually, it isn’t the dirty pocket that Rosen has problems with, it’s the clean pocket. His throwing percentages from a clean pocket leave a lot to be desired.

 

[Mainstreet]

Where did you hear this? I want to hear Palmers take. He's pretty smart on all things offensive football.

The same here. I'd like to hear Carson Palmer's take as well.

 

[PACardsFan]

That is a great post @Chopper0080!

Literally the best assessment of this situation without the bias or rose colored glasses on. I agree 100% bro

One can say that the rose colored glasses apply more to those of us that watched Rosen last year & blamed his play on what supposedly little talent we had on the field & who was coaching it. I went back & watched every single offensive play with Rosen on the field. Yes, there were promising plays, although they were less and less as the season progressed. Teams identified his weaknesses & shut him down. We were literally unwatchable. For Rosen to be great, we have to build a perfect O-line & even then, he's still not an overly accurate passer with a clean pocket. His tendency, even with a clean pocket was to throw high. Can he improve under KK? Absolutely. Can he make real NFL passes, yes he can. I just see his ceiling not being high enough to take us where we need to go.

 

[PACardsFan]

Actually, it isn’t the dirty pocket that Rosen has problems with, it’s the clean pocket. His throwing percentages from a clean pocket leave a lot to be desired.

You're absolutely right. Clean pocket or not, his accuracy has never been ideal. Not at UCLA, and not last year. Haven't we learned that accuracy, or lack thereof, generally can't be coached into or out of someone.

 

[GuernseyCard]

You're absolutely right. Clean pocket or not, his accuracy has never been ideal. Not at UCLA, and not last year. Haven't we learned that accuracy, or lack thereof, generally can't be coached into or out of someone.

Really?

The Hall of Fame has a host of QB's whose completion % was better in the Pros than College.

Favre had a 54% completion rate in College.

If you were right, there would be no point in drafting a QB with less than 60% or having a QB coach on staff.

Anticipation may be innate, but, passing is mechanics.

 

[HeHasRosen]

You're absolutely right. Clean pocket or not, his accuracy has never been ideal. Not at UCLA, and not last year. Haven't we learned that accuracy, or lack thereof, generally can't be coached into or out of someone.

The only thing inaccurate is this post. There is no point wasting my time with the murray fan club. You are all completely off base. No one is saying this but people on this board. I understand that most of you don't understand the QB position as much as you would like tp think you do. All the Pro scouts said it was between Mayfield and Rosen last year as far as accuracy goes. So they are wrong and you know better. Got it.

The Murray fan club just shifts and manipulates arguments to fit their narrative. In one breath you claim Mcvay had everything to do with Goffs turnaround yet in another you guys claim Rosen has mostly to do with his bad year and not coaching or talent. You can't have it both ways. There is way more that goes into playing the position than statistics. They never show the whole story.

The difference between what some are arguing for Rosen and what you guys are arguing for murray is blind faith. We admit Rosen did not do well and is not a lock to be good. We also admit Murray can be. You all however claim Rosen sucks and Murray will be a HOFamer. That is just silly.

There is no stat nor tape that tells you Murray can read a defense. None. Yes Rosen had problems with anticipation. Every Rookie QB does. The speed of the game is dramatically faster in the pros. There is no proof Murray is good at this either. And he will struggle as a Rookie that i can guarantee.

Completely ignoring all of Murray's red flags is beyond ignorant. He is not going to come into the league and light it up. It is not going to happen mark my words. He may be good but he will be a Rookie and play like a Rookie just like every other one has. You are all in for a rude awakening.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Where did you hear this? I want to hear Palmers take. He's pretty smart on all things offensive football.

It was on the Doug and Wolf podcast

 

[Delmar M Lewis]

Many scouts say that Rosen had a higher grade than Murray does now. I agree with them. I saw Rosen make NFL throws amidst duress more often than Murray did in college, and I saw Rosen do the same in the pros last year. He made plays from the pocket even if they were few and far between. I watched Murray play one game vs superior talent and he was awful vs Alabama every time it mattered. I don't see him having more success when he gets to the NFL, he is put in more of those situations, and is facing an even greater size disadvantage. I don't see Murray as being able to survive the beating that Rosen took last year. I never saw Murray be the timing and rhythm QB in college that I believe you need to be to be successful in the pros.

Can Kyler Murray be successful? Sure, but it is going to take a superior drive to work on his game game that few guys have, even in the NFL. I don't think that is worth betting on. I think it is better to bet on the guy who has shown the ability at the pro level despite awful conditions. The guy in Rosen who has had to endure constant change over his college and NFL career. The constant pressure of being the guy even when he was dealt a less talented supporting cast. Murray transferred instead of beating out an incumbent and then still had to wait for the incumbent to graduate in order to get a starting spot. He has never once outworked the other guy to win the job. I'm going to go with the guy who has endured hardship and still elevated his game over the guy who has never once shown he can.

Great Post thank you

 

[Shane]

Many scouts say that Rosen had a higher grade than Murray does now. I agree with them. I saw Rosen make NFL throws amidst duress more often than Murray did in college, and I saw Rosen do the same in the pros last year. He made plays from the pocket even if they were few and far between. I watched Murray play one game vs superior talent and he was awful vs Alabama every time it mattered. I don't see him having more success when he gets to the NFL, he is put in more of those situations, and is facing an even greater size disadvantage. I don't see Murray as being able to survive the beating that Rosen took last year. I never saw Murray be the timing and rhythm QB in college that I believe you need to be to be successful in the pros.

Can Kyler Murray be successful? Sure, but it is going to take a superior drive to work on his game game that few guys have, even in the NFL. I don't think that is worth betting on. I think it is better to bet on the guy who has shown the ability at the pro level despite awful conditions. The guy in Rosen who has had to endure constant change over his college and NFL career. The constant pressure of being the guy even when he was dealt a less talented supporting cast. Murray transferred instead of beating out an incumbent and then still had to wait for the incumbent to graduate in order to get a starting spot. He has never once outworked the other guy to win the job. I'm going to go with the guy who has endured hardship and still elevated his game over the guy who has never once shown he can.

Best post ever on this topic