Minnesota Fan Source Reports KG in talks with Suns

[dodie53]

why can't marion back down smaller guys that guard him?

is it because he doesn't like contact?

 

[Cheesebeef]

why can't marion back down smaller guys that guard him?

is it because he doesn't like contact?

to be honest, he's just got too much hyper/kinetic energy on the court, which is a good thing for rebounding, getting out on the break, but when the game slows down, he's still moving to fast, thus he seemingly gets impatientt backing a guy down or often just throws up bricks on the run and takes that fading jumper sometimes even though no one's near him. it's the same thing that makes him special, that constant energy, which actually precludes him from being something more IMO.

 

[SactownSunsFan]

As I said to dodie, Parker would have to defend Nash and Bowen on Prince. That alone would have given us the series, since Nash would have been more effective without Bowen on him, Parker would have to spend more energy chasing Nash, and would face tougher defense in Prince.

Not true at all. Parker guards Bell, Finley on Prince and Bowen on Nash.

 

[elindholm]

to be honest, he's just got too much hyper/kinetic energy on the court, which is a good thing for rebounding, getting out on the break, but when the game slows down, he's still moving to fast, thus he seemingly gets impatientt backing a guy down or often just throws up bricks on the run and takes that fading jumper sometimes even though no one's near him. it's the same thing that makes him special, that constant energy, which actually precludes him from being something more IMO.

I don't agree with that at all. Marion's problem is that his fundamentals -- footwork, shooting mechanics, court awareness -- are terrible. Even his perimeter defense is worse than it should be, because he bends forward from the waist instead of down from his knees. His athleticism is so high that he's been able to get by without ever having really learned how to play basketball. But there's nothing about being hyper-athletic that precludes someone from also developing skills.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't agree with that at all. Marion's problem is that his fundamentals -- footwork, shooting mechanics, court awareness -- are terrible. Even his perimeter defense is worse than it should be, because he bends forward from the waist instead of down from his knees. His athleticism is so high that he's been able to get by without ever having really learned how to play basketball. But there's nothing about being hyper-athletic that precludes someone from also developing skills.

that actually makes much more sense than what I hypothesized and pretty much just nails it.

 

[dodie53]

I don't agree with that at all. Marion's problem is that his fundamentals -- footwork, shooting mechanics, court awareness -- are terrible. Even his perimeter defense is worse than it should be, because he bends forward from the waist instead of down from his knees. His athleticism is so high that he's been able to get by without ever having really learned how to play basketball. But there's nothing about being hyper-athletic that precludes someone from also developing skills.

so that means marion should be traded before his athletic ability wears down..

 

[Cheesebeef]

so that means marion should be traded before his athletic ability wears down..

I'm REALLY interested to see what Marion gets on the open market when he hits FA. I have a feeling whoever signs him to his next contract is gonna be sorry within two years.

 

[azirish]

so that means marion should be traded before his athletic ability wears down..

It has been brought up, but as a general rule players don't wear down if they remain in condition. They simply become more prone to injuries and recover more and more slowly.

Marion has been amazingly healthy and as long as he continues to stay in condition, should remain so for a while. But obviously one accident and it could all go. But that is true for any high priced player.

 

[SactownSunsFan]

It has been brought up, but as a general rule players don't wear down if they remain in condition. They simply become more prone to injuries and recover more and more slowly.

Marion has been amazingly healthy and as long as he continues to stay in condition, should remain so for a while. But obviously one accident and it could all go. But that is true for any high priced player.

He has been ridiculously healthy. Never missed more than 3 games in a season.

 

[dodie53]

It has been brought up, but as a general rule players don't wear down if they remain in condition. They simply become more prone to injuries and recover more and more slowly.

Marion has been amazingly healthy and as long as he continues to stay in condition, should remain so for a while. But obviously one accident and it could all go. But that is true for any high priced player.

even if you have very good conditioning, you have to think of the player's age too..

marion is what now? 28?

 

[Covert Rain]

Let's just hope Garnett doesn't go McDyess on the Suns

He won't. The Suns won't trade for him unless they negotiate an extension that puts him under contract for longer then next year.

It's obvious minnesota is holding out for amare. Tell them its either the marion package or nothing, if they want amare they can wait until he opts out of his contract, cause he aint leaving here for nothing less than tim duncan and tony parker.

If they are, KM is even dumber then I thought. I have thought he was pretty dumb. There is ZERO chance they get Amare. How KM can actually think that KG is worth Amare is beyond me. The Chicago or 3 way deals get way to complicated when it comes to extensions and salaries etc. So I doubt they are going to get a better deal from anybody but the Suns.

 

[azirish]

IMHO, both deals will fail once it becomes completely clear that they can never get Amare.

 

[cly2tw]

I don't agree with that at all. Marion's problem is that his fundamentals -- footwork, shooting mechanics, court awareness -- are terrible. Even his perimeter defense is worse than it should be, because he bends forward from the waist instead of down from his knees. His athleticism is so high that he's been able to get by without ever having really learned how to play basketball. But there's nothing about being hyper-athletic that precludes someone from also developing skills.

I used to describe the problem by pointing out that Marion hops around on the court instead of gliding through the space like Kobe, MJ, Pippen. The reason is that he keeps his center of gravity is too high which is associated with the body posture you described.

However, it's not unusual, I'd even say it's human nature, to stick to something what one excels at and rewarded for and not to develop further skills that could make a little better with yet a lot of effort and corrective measures to fight the athletic instinct. In that sense, the knee injury might turn out blessing in disguise for Amare as he no longer can only rely on his athletism to dominate. Amare is on the right course now developing body controls etc. Marion is too old for that, even though in the last two years he learned not to bite on every single head fake and improved his perimeter defense quite a lot, though still not the level of Prince, Battier, etc.

 

[azirish]

One of the reasons why I hope the Suns get a strong defense oriented coach is that they work more on defensive footwork, anticipation, rotation, and the other elements of first class defense.

I'd guess the hardest thing to teach is to get guys to stop leaving their feet on defense. Except for weak side shot blocks, jumping doesn't seem to help and makes the defender more vulnerable. The Spurs continually pump fake and then jump into the defender as soon as he's up in the air.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

One trade to rule them all

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=3960907
Add ATL '08 to Minnesota and #29 to boston

Minny now has
Thomas, Ratliff, Gomes, #5, #24, ATL '08 ... 2 Veteran PFCs, an up and coming SF...#5,7,24 in an amazing draft, and ATL's lotto pick next summer. Expiring contracts and awesome picks this year... and they only get rid of one player.

Boston has
Marion and #29 to give a lineup of Pierce Jefferson and Marion in their front court, West and Green in the back. A solid starting five to be a valid contender in the east.

Phoenix has
a ring

 

[dodie53]

One trade to rule them all

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=3960907
Add ATL '08 to Minnesota and #29 to boston

Minny now has
Thomas, Ratliff, Gomes, #5, #24, ATL '08 ... 2 Veteran PFCs, an up and coming SF...#5,7,24 in an amazing draft, and ATL's lotto pick next summer. Expiring contracts and awesome picks this year... and they only get rid of one player.

Boston has
Marion and #29 to give a lineup of Pierce Jefferson and Marion in their front court, West and Green in the back. A solid starting five to be a valid contender in the east.

Phoenix has
a ring

very nice..

 

[cly2tw]

There is an interesting post on phxsuns.net by a poster named jkalldaway,
http://www.phxsuns.net/index.php?na...pic&t=7716&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=300
that claims Minn, Boston, and Phx are working on a 3-way and Diaw and Marion must be in the package.

Diaw actually makes sense for Minny since in his 06 form he'd be the perfect compliment to Foye and good in a team with Ricky Davis too with his unselfish play. Could that be

Marion, Diaw, JR, Banks, #24, Atl pick for KG and West

Marion goes to Boston which gives up #5, Ratliff, West?

Actually, if Minny could pick Conley at #5 and send him to hawks for Josh Smith and select Yi/Noah they'd have a competitive team with

Noah/Diaw/J.Smith/Blount/Davis/Foye/Jaric/Hassel/McCant

and they still have Atl's pick of next year.

PS: actually, it might be even better for both team if they just swap #3 and #11 for #5, #29 and Atl's 08 pick, provided Conley is available at #5. Then Minn would get Horford at #3, Yi/Noah at #7, and Thorton/Young/Stuckey at #11.

 

[arwillan]

if this is all true, this could be a great thing for the team

KG just does it all and is a great guy, perfect mentor for amare even

 

[Errntknght]

I don't disagree with Eric about Shawn's lack of fundamentals but I do think that he doesn't back opponents down - in cases where he has the strength advantage - because he doesn't like contact. He avoids it very consistently - he almost never sets and holds a pick until the opponent runs into him, he doesn't block out on rebounds and he pulls up for a shot whenever there is a defender anywhere in his path. Heck, he won't even go over a guy's back for a rebound or give a hard foul.

It used to bug me a little but over the years I've decided that Shawn knows what is good for him and contact is not. That is why is gets injured so rarely. He knows the cornerstone of his game is his jumping ability and he preserves it by shunning contact like the plague. Its also the case that one cannot jump well while jostling with other players and jumping is his forte, so why give that up?

 

[arwillan]

I don't disagree with Eric about Shawn's lack of fundamentals but I do think that he doesn't back opponents down - in cases where he has the strength advantage - because he doesn't like contact. He avoids it very consistently - he almost never sets and holds a pick until the opponent runs into him, he doesn't block out on rebounds and he pulls up for a shot whenever there is a defender anywhere in his path. Heck, he won't even go over a guy's back for a rebound or give a hard foul.

It used to bug me a little but over the years I've decided that Shawn knows what is good for him and contact is not. That is why is gets injured so rarely. He knows the cornerstone of his game is his jumping ability and he preserves it by shunning contact like the plague. Its also the case that one cannot jump well while jostling with other players and jumping is his forte, so why give that up?

i agree. i think marion also has a quickness advantage on a lot of guys who guard him yet he rarely exposes it. i think he should have taken elson/oberto to the house and back because they are nothing compared to shawns ability yet he never did.

ultimately he has to decide, am i going to keep going as i am as a role player or do i want to step it up? he has to decide if he wants to be more of an inside presence on offense or a perimeter guy. he has to decide if he wants to be like bowen/artest who guard the perimeter or sort of like marcus camby who can block shots like no other and stop driving players. he is almost versitile to a fault, where he is just average at everything and not particularly good at anything, making him a role player. if he wants to get the stardom he thinks he deserves, he has to excell in one area or another

 

[Goldfield]

Marion, Diaw, #24, #29, Atlanta 08 pick for Garnett...

I would jump all over that.

 

[hsandhu]

The game here is obvious, the suns will not move amare, they've leaked it to paul coro and marc stein.

Garnett wants to be in phx, holds leverage with opt out and t-wolves would actually like to send him where he wants to be for loyalty.

But t-wolves aren't thrilled with suns offer, so they start trying to get other teams bidding to try and entice suns to move amare, still suns won't budge. Boston offers #5/jefferson, which actually minny likes more than marion. So suns are trying to flip marion into something else.

Unless they give up barbosa the suns can't beat boston's offer even when flipping marion, so what happens? Is garnett so set on phx and minny loyal enough they will move him there for less. Or is he content enough with boston, that boston will eventually get him?

Of course this could have been a lot freakin' easier if we weren't cursed and got the ping pong ball to go our way.

Unfortunately this could take a while, what is the record for the longest thread?

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

I dont see why boston would give up jefferson for Garnett. Its either a smoke screen for a phx-bos-min trade or Ainge is doing it out of spite of the suns. I presume the former is true, as boston originally wanted marion and we werent too excited about trading him for cap relief and a pick, and I think minny would prefer two big men and the #5 and fillers more than marion and fillers.

Not sure if my opinion is biased but I think a boston lineup of jefferson/pierce/marion is better than garnett/pierce

suns send marion and #29 to bos for #5/ratliff/gomes(or green)

suns send KT(or diaw)/Ratliff/Gomes/#5/#24/ATL '08 to MIN for KG

MIN now has an arsenal of draft picks, expiring veterans, and a great base to rebuild with.

Boston makes the playoffs with west/pierce/perkins/marion/jefferson

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Here is all you need to know about this fool:

He is insulting Amare calling him another Kenyon Martin and at the same time is trying to argue why they would want him in a KG trade

Word gets around Diawsome!

From revprodeji RealGM Moderator:

it has come to my attention that three other forums are upset of my Martin/Amare comment.


What I meant is both forwards have great physical skills, but their value is hard to determine because it is inflated due to playing with great point guards.

man, kinda weird seeing how many people got upset about this. I didnt break the trade. Im just in contact with some of the sources.

(yea arizonasportsfans that is for you)

By the way I think he still fails to realize Amare is not included in the trade. Its sad that he has all this alleged inside info and cant filter out the garbage.

 

[devilalum]

When the Suns traded for Barkley the Sixers wanted Majerlie or KJ as part of the deal. The Suns held out for a couple of weeks and they finally took the Boy Scout amd filler.