Minnesota Fan Source Reports KG in talks with Suns

[asudevil83]

Sign-and-trades require longer than a 1 year deal.

technically yes and no. Brown could be signed to 1 year guarranteed and 2 years of team options. it works as part of the CBA

 

[slinslin]

Sign-and-trades require longer than a 1 year deal.

In that case you can cross out Chicago.

No way will Minnesota take PJ Brown for 2 years /24M$ or whatever to make a KG to Chicago trade happen.

 

[devilalum]

More from the mod:



Ok I'm officially sick of this thing and am calling b.s. This went from a report saying the deal was done, now there is a bidding war and speculation the suns would part with amare, which would be idiotic.

I don't pretend to know what's going on here but I have read a lot about the dynamics of past trades.

Sometimes when teams are looking to deal a player they'll leak it to see if other teams will make a better offer. Some teams have more integrity than others and some teams are shameless ****** when it comes to making deals.

To combat this GM's will do things like say, "This deal is on the table for 15 minutes, after that its gone." Good GM's also try to keep proposals secret to minimize the hurt feelings that come when potential deals are leaked and fall apart.

The Colangelos were always known for taking the high road in all these situations but sometimes were screwed over by other GM's.

My point is that deals take on a life of their own. A couple of years ago there was an article in the Suns magazine that chronicled some big deals and non deals that have happened over the last 15 years.

 

[Diawsome]

No offense. But you are a product of the media that you read, which tries to tell you that Amare is more than just a K.Martin "good with a great pg" athletic power forward.

Here is all you need to know about this fool:

He is insulting Amare calling him another Kenyon Martin and at the same time is trying to argue why they would want him in a KG trade

 

[Crash]

The claim that Marion disappears is just a total myth. In the playoffs, Marion's rebounds per game went up and his scoring as a percentage of the total was up in the Laker series and down only 0.2% from the regular season.

Regular Season - 9.8 rpg
First Round - 10.2 rpg
Second Round - 10.5 rpg

In terms of points

Regular Season - 17.5 ppg
First Round - 18.4 ppg
Second Round - 15.7 ppg

The Suns total offense was:

Regular Season - 110.2 ppg
First Round - 108.4
Second Round - 100.5 ppg

Marion's scoring as a percentage of the total:

Regular Season - 15.88%
First Round - 16.97%
Second Round - 15.62%

Where did Marion go in the second half of game 5 against the Spurs? I almost thought he fell asleep at halftime and someone didn't wake him up. Sure his rebounding was still there but that is all.

 

[Covert Rain]

The part that I don't buy is that Phoenix is being suggested as the team with a direct trade and then being involved in a 3 way trade. I would have to imagine that Phoenix wouldn't put themselves in a position to essentially be bidding against themselves by having both a 2 way and a 3 way on the board at the same time with the same team.

 

[Diawsome]

Where did Marion go in the second half of game 5 against the Spurs? I almost thought he fell asleep at halftime and someone didn't wake him up.

The Spurs adjusted to Marion in the 2nd half. Marion made Oberto and Elson look like NBDLers in the 1st half so Popovich started using smaller line ups (using Ginobili, Finley and Horry a lot more) which took away the advantage Marion had on the Spurs bigs his quickness. Also Kurt Thomas tired out which forced Marion to defend Tim Duncan for stretches of the game and Duncan just pounded away on Marion which took away a lot of his energy.

 

[az1965]

Hey guys... this just in...

My friend's mother said that her sister-in-law, who she swore never ever lies, that she read on an authentic message board that most of the time has verified stuff on it, that the KG trade with Suns is just pure BS. She also said that this news was confirmed by her local NBA store sales person who shared this info on condition of anonymity.

 

[azirish]

Where did Marion go in the second half of game 5 against the Spurs? I almost thought he fell asleep at halftime and someone didn't wake him up. Sure his rebounding was still there but that is all.

I supposed anybody can have a poor half. Overall in that game, Marion shot 9 of 16 plus 2 of 4 for three and had 17 rebounds while playing 46 minutes.

 

[hsandhu]

I don't pretend to know what's going on here but I have read a lot about the dynamics of past trades.

Sometimes when teams are looking to deal a player they'll leak it to see if other teams will make a better offer. Some teams have more integrity than others and some teams are shameless ****** when it comes to making deals.

To combat this GM's will do things like say, "This deal is on the table for 15 minutes, after that its gone." Good GM's also try to keep proposals secret to minimize the hurt feelings that come when potential deals are leaked and fall apart.

The Colangelos were always known for taking the high road in all these situations but sometimes were screwed over by other GM's.

My point is that deals take on a life of their own. A couple of years ago there was an article in the Suns magazine that chronicled some big deals and non deals that have happened over the last 15 years.

I've just seen this script before. It's not exactly the same as the McGrady deal 3 years ago, but similar in the fact that as each day passed it became clearer and clearer the suns offer was a distinct second to Houston, it looks like that is the case with Boston this time (the fact that Ainge actually came out and said, yes, we are trying to trade for garnett).

 

[azirish]

I've just seen this script before. It's not exactly the same as the McGrady deal 3 years ago, but similar in the fact that as each day passed it became clearer and clearer the suns offer was a distinct second to Houston, it looks like that is the case with Boston this time (the fact that Ainge actually came out and said, yes, we are trying to trade for garnett).

Ainge has a lot less to lose. He's got lots of young guys he doesn't want to have to re-sign. On the other hand, it is not clear he's got enough pieces to make a trade and not end up with a team that's worse than what KG has now.

 

[Black Jesus]

alright here it is, crazy idea.

Marion #29 for #5/Ratliff/Gomes
Amare and Diaw for KG and #7


#5, ATL pick, and #24 for #1 overall


Greg Oden
Kevin Garnett
Ryan Gomes
Raja Bell
Steve Nash

Barbosa, James Jones, Ratliff, and #7 on Brewer or Conley.


haha that would never happen but i was just putting together a bunch of different ideas posted before.

 

[hsandhu]

Ainge has a lot less to lose. He's got lots of young guys he doesn't want to have to re-sign. On the other hand, it is not clear he's got enough pieces to make a trade and not end up with a team that's worse than what KG has now.

Oh believe me I agree (although being in the east vs. the west is a huge difference).

A team of
Garnett
Kendirck Perkins
ryan gomes
pierce
delonte west bench: rajon rondo, leon powe, wally, scalabrine

Aint competing for an NBA title, I dont care if the lord almighty came down and guaranteed otherwise. Even in the east at best that team gets to the second round, most likely bounced in the first.

People point out cleveland, they had one player who was a 10 with a lot of 6's. This boston team would have a 10 an 8/9, and a bunch of 4's, who unlike cleveland's role players haven't even proved they are nba players yet.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The claim that Marion disappears is just a total myth. In the playoffs, Marion's rebounds per game went up and his scoring as a percentage of the total was up in the Laker series and down only 0.2% from the regular season.

I think "disappears" is definitely too strong, but in the biggest series of the year, the last three years, Marion's averaged 13.7 ppg, after averaging 19.7 throughout the last three regular seasons and that's WITH increased court time. It makes sense that his rebounds would go up during that stretch because he's on the court more, so he has more opportunities, however, it's pretty inexucsable for his ppg to drop 6 points - that's a big drop from any player, but for a MAX player's average to fall like that is inexcusable. Title winning teams need their absolute BEST players (of which Marion is on this team) to RAISE EVERY LEVEL of their game come playoff time and in crunch time, Marion recedes in a very important part of the game. I think that's why he gets the "disappear" label. It's more like shrinking than disappearing, but it'd definitely hurt us in our biggest challenges to date. I mean, in the last 3 years, in the last series of those years, over the course of 17 games, he's failed to score more than 13 points in TEN of those games? That's just pathetic. That's where the label comes from, when the competition is at it's highest, Marion's at his lowest for the season.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Oh believe me I agree (although being in the east vs. the west is a huge difference).

A team of
Garnett
Kendirck Perkins
ryan gomes
pierce
delonte west bench: rajon rondo, leon powe, wally, scalabrine

Aint competing for an NBA title, I dont care if the lord almighty came down and guaranteed otherwise. Even in the east at best that team gets to the second round, most likely bounced in the first.

People point out cleveland, they had one player who was a 10 with a lot of 6's. This boston team would have a 10 an 8/9, and a bunch of 4's, who unlike cleveland's role players haven't even proved they are nba players yet.

I think you give Cleveland and the East too much credit. It's Lebron and garbage - the only 6 on that team is Z and maybe Gooden, but that's it. Otherwise you're looking at fives and four across the line.

A 10 (KG), a 8/9 (Pierce) and a bunch of fives/fours gets it done in the East. They're the only team in the East with a legit inside/outside threat and that by itself would make everyone on the team better. And Delonte and Gomez can be just as efficient as the crap on Cleveland. It probably won't beat the West in the Finals, but they'd have as good a shot as anyone in the East. A much better shot anyway than what they have now, plus the 5th pick.

boston's gonna get this deal done - that's my call. they have a monster contract as a big piece of the puzzle, a young enticing big man to replace Garnett and a high lotto pick in a deep draft. If you're Minny, that's the best you could hope for to build around Foye, two lotto picks and a young big stud, plus cap room next off-season? That's a no brainer IMO for both teams.

 

[azirish]

I think "disappears" is definitely too strong, but in the biggest series of the year, the last three years, Marion's averaged 13.7 ppg, after averaging 19.7 throughout the last three regular seasons and that's WITH increased court time. It makes sense that his rebounds would go up during that stretch because he's on the court more, so he has more opportunities, however, it's pretty inexucsable for his ppg to drop 6 points - that's a big drop from any player, but for a MAX player's average to fall like that is inexcusable. Title winning teams need their absolute BEST players (of which Marion is on this team) to RAISE EVERY LEVEL of their game come playoff time and in crunch time, Marion recedes in a very important part of the game. I think that's why he gets the "disappear" label. It's more like shrinking than disappearing, but it'd definitely hurt us in our biggest challenges to date. I mean, in the last 3 years, in the last series of those years, over the course of 17 games, he's failed to score more than 13 points in TEN of those games? That's just pathetic. That's where the label comes from, when the competition is at it's highest, Marion's at his lowest for the season.

If Marion was a primary scoring option, then I'd agree. But his main value is a as a defender, rebounder, and someone who is very good on the break. Everyone gets upset with him because he's not a Carmelo, but that's not what he's about.

If it was not for the money, I don't think Marion would get so much grief. When you compare his stats to Tayshaun Prince he compares pretty well:

Shawn Marion
Phoenix Suns
Position: F
Height: 6-7 Weight: 228
College : UNLV
Player file | Team stats
2006-07 Statistics

PPG17.5
RPG9.8
APG1.7
SPG1.95
BPG1.53
FG%.524
FT%.810
3P%.317
MPG37.6



Tayshaun Prince
Detroit Pistons
Position: F
Height: 6-9 Weight: 215
College : Kentucky
Player file | Team stats
2006-07 StatisticsPPG14.3

RPG5.2
APG2.8
SPG.62
BPG.67
FG%.460
FT%.768
3P%.386
MPG36.6

 

[Evil Ash]

boston's gonna get this deal done - that's my call. they have a monster contract as a big piece of the puzzle, a young enticing big man to replace Garnett and a high lotto pick in a deep draft. If you're Minny, that's the best you could hope for to build around Foye, two lotto picks and a young big stud, plus cap room next off-season? That's a no brainer IMO for both teams.

It would be a great deal for the Twolves, without question. The problem would be for the celts side of the equation because they are only guaranteed to have Garnett for one year.

If they worked out an extension it would work for both sides but convincing Garnett to want to stay in Boston won't be an easy task

 

[Cheesebeef]

If Marion was a primary scoring option, then I'd agree. But his main value is a as a defender, rebounder, and someone who is very good on the break. Everyone gets upset with him because he's not a Carmelo, but that's not what he's about.

If it was not for the money, I don't think Marion would get so much grief. When you compare his stats to Tayshaun Prince he compares pretty well:

but you can't just take money out of the equation and it doesn't matter if you're primary scoring option - if you don't play up to your averages, it's going to hurt the team, especially on a team where offense is our strong suit. There's a reason why in the last three title rounds our offense hasn't even sniffed our regular season average, atttaining that score only 3 times in 17 games (yeah - we've only hit our average 3 times in SEVENTEEN GAMES) and while other players have had drops here or there, the only CONSTANT drop in every last series of the year is from Marion.

Bringing up Carmelo makes no sense either to me, because no one wants Marion to score 25 ppg, we'd just like to see him actually get to his average or close to it, which hasn't been the case. Also, it doesn't help the fact that as our guy who look to for defense has been relatively used in the laast three years as Manu/Parker ate him up alive in 2004, Dirk went off on him in 2005 and Parker did what he needed to do this year.

He's just fallen short of the own standard set by himself in the regular season - plain and simple.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It would be a great deal for the Twolves, without question. The problem would be for the celts side of the equation because they are only guaranteed to have Garnett for one year.

If they worked out an extension it would work for both sides but convincing Garnett to want to stay in Boston won't be an easy task

that's a good point, but I have to assume any team making this deal is gonna have to have this in place. I think the three things that KG would look at that could convince him to sign an extension are a) the Celts would probably offer himt he kitchen sink b) he'd be ADORED in Boston, seen as the savior and c) he'd have a much better shot in the playoffs out Eaast than out West.

 

[hsandhu]

I think you give Cleveland and the East too much credit. It's Lebron and garbage - the only 6 on that team is Z and maybe Gooden, but that's it. Otherwise you're looking at fives and four across the line.

A 10 (KG), a 8/9 (Pierce) and a bunch of fives/fours gets it done in the East. They're the only team in the East with a legit inside/outside threat and that by itself would make everyone on the team better. And Delonte and Gomez can be just as efficient as the crap on Cleveland. It probably won't beat the West in the Finals, but they'd have as good a shot as anyone in the East. A much better shot anyway than what they have now, plus the 5th pick.

boston's gonna get this deal done - that's my call. they have a monster contract as a big piece of the puzzle, a young enticing big man to replace Garnett and a high lotto pick in a deep draft. If you're Minny, that's the best you could hope for to build around Foye, two lotto picks and a young big stud, plus cap room next off-season? That's a no brainer IMO for both teams.

Well if they get it done, you and I are gonna have some kind of bet over what that team does. Because I see it as total trash. If you dont believe me, read some boston message boards, they are about 80-20 against the trade (giving up jefferson/#5/green).

People try to give it credibility by pointing to cleveland, but the fact of the matter is cleveland is essentially trash as well. They had a bye in the first round, played an underachieving team with mikki moore as the inside presence in the second, and played a team that has all of sudden turned into the atlanta braves in the ecf.

I'm not even viewing this as a suns fan (who would want that boston team to fail) just as a basketall fan, I see nothing from that team. If it happens, you and I are gonna go back and forth all year about what they're doing. Which will be very sad when on dec. 18 we're going back and forth on the boston/orlando game = )

 

[Cheesebeef]

Which will be very sad when on dec. 18 we're going back and forth on the boston/orlando game = )

LOL

 

[Cheesebeef]

People try to give it credibility by pointing to cleveland, but the fact of the matter is cleveland is essentially trash as well. They had a bye in the first round, played an underachieving team with mikki moore as the inside presence in the second, and played a team that has all of sudden turned into the atlanta braves in the ecf.

but here's the thing, the Nets ain't getting any better, the Pistons only get older and they're pretty much done, the Heat are practically an old folks home and well, you've already admitted the Cavs are trash as well. A KG/Pierce combo can beat all of those teams IMO,and compete with Chicago and Toronto.

i just think the East is horrific that any team with superstars inside and out can fight their way through the crap and that's what Boston would have.

besides, as far as the Celtic boards are concerned, most everyone here is convinced Marion and a bunch of garbage can get KG don't I don't put too much stock into what those boards are saying.

 

[slinslin]

Pierce + KG and only scrubs isn't a serious contender, not even in the East, sorry.

Lebron+Z plus better players, Chicago, Wade+Shaq + better players, Detroit... I am sorry. Orlando will be good with Howard and their capspace probably Lewis..

 

[Chaplin]

but here's the thing, the Nets ain't getting any better, the Pistons only get older and they're pretty much done, the Heat are practically an old folks home and well, you've already admitted the Cavs are trash as well. A KG/Pierce combo can beat all of those teams IMO,and compete with Chicago and Toronto.

i just think the East is horrific that any team with superstars inside and out can fight their way through the crap and that's what Boston would have.

besides, as far as the Celtic boards are concerned, most everyone here is convinced Marion and a bunch of garbage can get KG don't I don't put too much stock into what those boards are saying.

WTF? Barbosa is garbage? When did the 6th Man of the Year become a horrible player?

 

[Evil Ash]

that's a good point, but I have to assume any team making this deal is gonna have to have this in place. I think the three things that KG would look at that could convince him to sign an extension are a) the Celts would probably offer himt he kitchen sink b) he'd be ADORED in Boston, seen as the savior and c) he'd have a much better shot in the playoffs out Eaast than out West.

Its all about what Garnett wants. If he forces the Twolves to trade him to a team that he views as a title contender, then he's going to need a lot of convincing to sign an extension with Boston (like you said they have a shot in the East but not for a title).