Suns @ Grizzlies game thread 2-28-18

[Chaplin]

This board is so argumentative that they take an indefensible position just to put "someone else" in their place. Unreal.

It's argumentative only when the arguments are incredibly stupid.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

This board is so argumentative that they take an indefensible position just to put "someone else" in their place. Unreal.

I actually agree that the hair gets in the way, but I still think it is wrong to say that it is indefensible. I can certainly see why people may believe that it doesn’t have a negative impact.

 

[pokerface]

I actually agree that the hair gets in the way, but I still think it is wrong to say that it is indefensible. I can certainly see why people may believe that it doesn’t have a negative impact.

It's absolutely indefensible unless he has x-ray vision. Some shot somewhere is being altered because of that hairdo. He's not seeing something at times. It's an undeniable fact.

 

[devilalum]

It’s a politically correct world. Imagine everyone is afraid to make such a demand. I just can’t believe anyone that WATCHES him believes it does not negatively impact his game. I am mystified there is even a discussion about it.

I can’t tell if it bothers him or not. He plays pretty well. Maybe that’s just the best he can do. What concrete evidence do you have to prove he would play better with a haircut?


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[pokerface]

It's argumentative only when the arguments are incredibly stupid.

Agreed. This is one of those arguments.

 

[pokerface]

I can’t tell if it bothers him or not. He plays pretty well. Maybe that’s just the best he can do. What concrete evidence do you have to prove he would play better with a haircut?


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Go put on a baseball hat and try to join a pickup game. See what they say...after they get done laughing. Then see if your game is affected in any way.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't think he would have said he planned on cutting it soon if they did ask him to cut it for them. If they did ask though i can see that being an issue that the players organization would raise a stink over so I just can't see it happening.

As Ann FYI I don’t personally have strong feelings in regards to his hair one way or another other than i think it looks goofy. But that’s his prerogative.

I do think it likely that it impacts his play. I, nor anyone I’ve ever seen, plays hoops with a baseball hat on unless it’s backwards. I know it’s fiction but woody harrelson in White Men Can’t Jump is a good visual example. When he’s playing guys outta their dough he reverses his cap not for effect but so he can see with his full peripheral vision. From just shooting with a baseball cap I know personally there IS a difference.

And if a team asked for a change of hairdo for performance purposes the players association would have a difficult time arguing against it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The fact that you think it's a possibility and the Suns do not speaks volumes, don't you think? Are you really speculating that you know better than professional NBA trainers, players and coaches?

If his hair really was a problem, wouldn't the teams he played for force him to cut it? It's not like he's Lebron James and a big star and can do anything he wants.

Yo are assuming that teams haven’t asked him to cut it. Perhaps the magic did, he refused and that’s a contributing factor as to why they shipped him out for peanuts. Maybe the suns have asked. Or maybe they are watching his performance to determine if they think they need to ask. I suppose it’s reasonable to assume they haven’t or won’t based on the fact he still has the hairdo. But they could also have reasonably thought “we should get him to cut his hair to be incrementally better, but he’s the best we got as-is so it’s fine.”

As for what I know. I’ve played a lot of basketball in my time. I’ve worn a lot of baseball hats in my time (own over 150 of them). I ALWAYS turned my hat around while playing ball because it enhanced my vision. Is it possible his hair is a different scenario or coaches think otherwise or don’t care? (Where do trainers fit into this?!?). Sure. I’m just commenting based on my first hand experience with something I believe to be similar. To steadfastly argue that it absolutely doesn’t impact his game with no empirical evidence of same is a little silly.

 

[Chaplin]

Yo are assuming that teams haven’t asked him to cut it. Perhaps the magic did, he refused and that’s a contributing factor as to why they shipped him out for peanuts. Maybe the suns have asked. Or maybe they are watching his performance to determine if they think they need to ask. I suppose it’s reasonable to assume they haven’t or won’t based on the fact he still has the hairdo. But they could also have reasonably thought “we should get him to cut his hair to be incrementally better, but he’s the best we got as-is so it’s fine.”

As for what I know. I’ve played a lot of basketball in my time. I’ve worn a lot of baseball hats in my time (own over 150 of them). I ALWAYS turned my hat around while playing ball because it enhanced my vision. Is it possible his hair is a different scenario or coaches think otherwise or don’t care? (Where do trainers fit into this?!?). Sure. I’m just commenting based on my first hand experience with something I believe to be similar. To steadfastly argue that it absolutely doesn’t impact his game with no empirical evidence of same is a little silly.

For who? Armchair coaches like us, or NBA personnel that apparently have no control over a middle-of-the-road point guard who is highly paid? I just think the argument holds no weight at all.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Go put on a baseball hat and try to join a pickup game. See what they say...after they get done laughing. Then see if your game is affected in any way.

There is one very distinct difference between a baseball cap and his hair. That is that the cap has a hard bill on it that will have no give whatsoever if you make contact with it.

 

[pokerface]

There is one very distinct difference between a baseball cap and his hair. That is that the cap has a hard bill on it that will have no give whatsoever if you make contact with it.

His hair is a visor he can't see through.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Go put on a baseball hat and try to join a pickup game. See what they say...after they get done laughing. Then see if your game is affected in any way.

Put on a baseball cap with a floppy visor.

I firmly believe a haircut will get him several million more in free agency.

 

[Chaplin]

His hair is a visor he can't see through.

Triple doubles don't support your speculation.

 

[pokerface]

Triple doubles don't support your speculation.

So what are you saying? Unobstructed vision is overrated? He couldn't do better if he saw better?


Are we really having this conversation?

 

[Chaplin]

So what are you saying? Unobstructed vision is overrated? He couldn't do better if he saw better?


Are we really having this conversation?

I am saying is that you are HIGHLY overinflating the lack of - whatever - that his hair provides. It doesn't have any evidence. Your only argument is that if he cuts his hair, he MIGHT have better stats.

If Devin Booker wore shorter shorter shorts, he MIGHT run faster.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Triple doubles don't support your speculation.

That’s just it Chap you can’t say he couldn’t have had a more impressive triple double bc you can’t know if the hair affected his game. You literally can’t know. You’re assuming he’s playing at peak efficiency. That’s a faulty assumption. Similarly I can’t say he definitively would have had a more impressive triple double. But what I can say is, it’s possible given the fact it’s reasonable to believe his hair impacts his court vision.

I think you and poker are both wrong because you are arguing in absolute terms. The hair is a problem! The hair is not a problem! When in reality we don’t know and it is reasonable, given the fact that his hair absolutely restricts some sight lines (even if they are just his upward peripheral vision), that his hair MIGHT be a negative impact on his game.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I am saying is that you are HIGHLY overinflating the lack of - whatever - that his hair provides. It doesn't have any evidence. Your only argument is that if he cuts his hair, he MIGHT have better stats.

If Devin Booker wore shorter shorter shorts, he MIGHT run faster.

Dude that’s just an awful analogy.

We are talking about hair that likely infringes on at least some of his court vision. You are saying that’s the same as shorter shorts which has no impact (either restrictive or tangling - I don’t even get the point you’re trying to make) on his ability to move.

 

[pokerface]

That’s just it Chap you can’t say he couldn’t have had a more impressive triple double bc you can’t know if the hair affected his game. You literally can’t know. You’re assuming he’s playing at peak efficiency. That’s a faulty assumption. Similarly I can’t say he definitively would have had a more impressive triple double. But what I can say is, it’s possible given the fact it’s reasonable to believe his hair impacts his court vision.

I think you and poker are both wrong because you are arguing in absolute terms. The hair is a problem! The hair is not a problem! When in reality we don’t know and it is reasonable, given the fact that his hair absolutely restricts some sight lines (even if they are just his upward peripheral vision), that his hair MIGHT be a negative impact on his game.

I don't think I'm going on a limb here Ouchie. Yeah I'm taking an absolute stand on this one. His hair affects "something" negatively. Like even you said prior if it makes him miss one hoop it's not good.

Look, it's a floppy (thanks JC) visor. Enuff said?

 

[elindholm]

I know this point has already been made, but cutting his hair could also hurt his performance. For example, maybe his flopping hair makes it easier for officials to see when he has been hit in the lane, similar to the way Harden snaps his head back like Oswald shot him. Or maybe he has a superstitious reason for keeping his hair like that, known only to him, and it gives him greater confidence.

It's up to the players to figure out how to perform at their peak. If he's not doing that and it makes him a lesser player, the system will exact its own price soon enough.

 

[Chaplin]

Dude that’s just an awful analogy.

We are talking about hair that likely infringes on at least some of his court vision. You are saying that’s the same as shorter shorts which has no impact (either restrictive or tangling - I don’t even get the point you’re trying to make) on his ability to move.

How do you know? It MIGHT make a difference, but you don't know.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Triple doubles don't support your speculation.

The fact that he has underplayed his draft expectations would support it.

 

[Superbone]

This is a silly argument. Anybody that plays basketball knows that it is in the way of a natural shot. You don't have to be on an NBA sideline for a living to know this.

 

[Chaplin]

The fact that he has underplayed his draft expectations would support it.

Supports what? That his hair is a detriment to his game? Seriously? Can you write that sentence while having a straight face?

It's absolutely ridiculous how many of you are convinced that Payton's HAIR is detrimental to his game. I'm saying that if you all are right, he would have either cut it himself or been forced to cut it long ago.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think Chap is just leg pulling on this one. Can’t be a legit argument.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

How do you know? It MIGHT make a difference, but you don't know.

THats the point, I’m NOT saying I know. You seem to keep arguing that it doesn’t. But you can’t know either.