Suns meeting Amar'e Stoudemire, final deal extension push before July 1

[slinslin]

IMHO Sarver is gambling on the number of years of the contract, but I'm not entirely convinced it is a dumb bet.

The biggest widl card is that the bottom feeders are hoping to get two top level free agents this summer. This means that they have to manage their cap space very closely. To get two guys starting at $22.5, teams have to have more than $45 million in cap space. At this point, assuming $56 million cap,k that means a salary structure of $11 million.

Per Hoopshype

Chicago $23.86 (after the Hinrich trade)
Miami $27,6
New York $18.6
New Jersey $19.6
Clipper $30.8

It is clear that evvery one of the teams can sign Amare, but will have a problem signing him AND another elite player.

Is Amare going to get the 5 year max deal? It is possible, but recent extentions do not support that theory. Gasol just signed an extension las December for a three year deal. Carmelo is reported to have a THREE year extension with the Nuggets. I'm not sure if I've missed someboy, but I can't find a five year deal sinch Lewis signd with Orlando. I'm not sure what is going on, but it is suggestive.

Sarver might panic, but IMHO oppinion Amare may struggle to find a team with the cap space to make him their top signing. How much do they want a guy with health isssue and performance limitations?

Miami can afford pretty much 3 max contracts, Chicago and New York 2 each.

 

[Covert Rain]

Miami can afford pretty much 3 max contracts, Chicago and New York 2 each.

Won't max contracts come in somewhere between 12 to 15 million per year (I don't know the latest)? 2 players would eat most of that up.

Also, your assuming that one team could get 3 max players to sign with the same team in the same year. Has that ever happened? I don't think a team has even gotten 2 max contract players in the same year?!?!

 

[Mainstreet]

I think Amare should sign an extension with Phoenix. He would make $17.7 million in 2010-11 on his current contract and then have four years of increases after that. This must total somewhere in the order of 100M. He has already had one max contract with Phoenix. I personally would not leave this money on the table. However, I'm not sure if this is a good deal for the Suns future. I hope he is insured.

 

[slinslin]

Won't max contracts come in somewhere between 12 to 15 million per year (I don't know the latest)? 2 players would eat most of that up.

Also, your assuming that one team could get 3 max players to sign with the same team in the same year. Has that ever happened? I don't think a team has even gotten 2 max contract players in the same year?!?!

Miami has only 10M$ in contracts on the payroll.

Beasley 4.9M$
Jones 4.6M$
Chalmers 900k$

The salary cap is somewhere around 55M$ so they have 45M$ caproom. That's 3 contracts starting at 15M$ which should pretty much be the max they can pay without bird rights.

Not to mention they'll probably sign and trade Beasley for one of the players they sign.

Chicago only has like 30M$ caproom and I HIGHLY doubt that the Cavs have any interest in signing and trading Lebron for Deng.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

IMHO Sarver is gambling on the number of years of the contract, but I'm not entirely convinced it is a dumb bet.

The biggest widl card is that the bottom feeders are hoping to get two top level free agents this summer. This means that they have to manage their cap space very closely. To get two guys starting at $22.5, teams have to have more than $45 million in cap space. At this point, assuming $56 million cap,k that means a salary structure of $11 million.

Per Hoopshype

Chicago $23.86 (after the Hinrich trade)
Miami $27,6
New York $18.6
New Jersey $19.6
Clipper $30.8

?

george you're wrong on this line of thinking. it has been widely reported that the heat are positioned to be capable of signing 3 max FAs, the bulls 2 and the knicks 2. and those numbers have been reported by virtually EVERY OUTLET known to the sports world. i'm willing to bet those sources have it closer to accurate than do you. not an attack, just sayin' . . .

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Won't max contracts come in somewhere between 12 to 15 million per year (I don't know the latest)? 2 players would eat most of that up.

Also, your assuming that one team could get 3 max players to sign with the same team in the same year. Has that ever happened? I don't think a team has even gotten 2 max contract players in the same year?!?!

daren, we're in a whole new universe this offseason. one for which gm's and players have been planning for years. it's going to happen. or something close to it.

 

[slinslin]

Miami 3
Chicago 2
New York 2
New Jersey 2
LA Clippers 1

If we renounce Frye, Amare and Amundson we would have 13M$ caproom. Probably not enough for Dirk unless we dump someone. Hill, Clark and Barbosa would be the main options.

That's the problem really, we could have been a player if we agressively shopped J-Rich and Barbosa for TMac we would be in a position to hand out 2 max contracts. You think Lebron would consider teaming up with Nash and Amare?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Miami 3
Chicago 2
New York 2
New Jersey 2
LA Clippers 1

If we renounce Frye, Amare and Amundson we would have 13M$ caproom. Probably not enough for Dirk unless we dump someone. Hill, Clark and Barbosa would be the main options.

That's the problem really, we could have been a player if we agressively shopped J-Rich and Barbosa for TMac we would be in a position to hand out 2 max contracts. You think Lebron would consider teaming up with Nash and Amare?

it would have been nice to dream, but there's no way that lebron would come to phx. no way. just no way. nor would wade. and bosh would have been redundant, and jj wouldn't be enough with this squad to push them over the top. so that created space would have likely been wasted.

 

[dodie53]

he's gone.
we just have to deal with it.

 

[Irish]

Miami has only 10M$ in contracts on the payroll.

Beasley 4.9M$
Jones 4.6M$
Chalmers 900k$

The salary cap is somewhere around 55M$ so they have 45M$ caproom. That's 3 contracts starting at 15M$ which should pretty much be the max they can pay without bird rights.

Not to mention they'll probably sign and trade Beasley for one of the players they sign.

Chicago only has like 30M$ caproom and I HIGHLY doubt that the Cavs have any interest in signing and trading Lebron for Deng.

I have no doubt Miami has the most money. But I'm not sure getting a contract STARTING at $15 million is in Amare's plans.

Gasol signed a three yeaer extension last December:

2011-12 $18.714
2012-13 $19.000
2013-14 $19.295

Carmlo is reputed to have signed a 3 year $65 million deal. I'd guess this starts at about $20 million. $45 million does not get your THREE elite players. A double max deal will come close to taking half the $45.

 

[slinslin]

You are just wrong George. Also the extension Gasol signed is not comparable to the contracts these FREE AGENTS can and will sign.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think Stat will end up in New York now. I was saying Miami before, but people might be right that Riley isn't interested in him. I thought D'a wasn't that high on him either but, after Chicago clearing room, I don't think they'll have much of a choice.

If Amare doesn't stay in Phoenix I think he is bound for New York.

I wish you would post more so we could have some more lively discussions.

Did I tell you Frye is a stud.

Just kidding.

 

[cly2tw]

Sarver,

just save some money. It's too expensive to build a team signing people to market prices.

 

[Chaplin]

This stuff about signing 2 max free agents is fools gold. A team in the NBA needs to have at minimum 13 players on it. You sign 2 maximum players, you have only 11 million left to fit 11 players.

Chicago is the team in the best position because of 2 reasons: Noah and Rose. They can field a kick-ass starting lineup if they get 2 max guys, but the benches of any of those teams are going to be among the worst in the league.

 

[Griffin]

Miami has only 10M$ in contracts on the payroll.

Beasley 4.9M$
Jones 4.6M$
Chalmers 900k$

The salary cap is somewhere around 55M$ so they have 45M$ caproom. That's 3 contracts starting at 15M$ which should pretty much be the max they can pay without bird rights.

You are forgetting about cap holds. With only three players under contract, they will have nine cap holds at around 500K each, so that's 4.5M, leaving the Heat about 41M to spend. Not enough for three max players unless they trade Beasley. But I don't think it's a good idea to sign three max players and then surround them with veteran minimum contracts.

 

[cly2tw]

You are forgetting about cap holds. With only three players under contract, they will have nine cap holds at around 500K each, so that's 4.5M, leaving the Heat about 41M to spend. Not enough for three max players unless they trade Beasley. But I don't think it's a good idea to sign three max players and then surround them with veteran minimum contracts.

totally agree. LBJ/Bosh, Wade/Amare in tandem are good enough to win. And you don't get quality role players like Artest, Fisher, Perkins, Davis, Odom just for min.

 

[Griffin]

From Wojnarowski's Yahoo article:

Phoenix Suns owner Robert Sarver and coach Alvin Gentry will make a last-ditch contract extension offer to Amar’e Stoudemire at a meeting Tuesday in Los Angeles, a team source told Yahoo! Sports.

Unless Sarver comes with a maximum offer that convinces the All-Star forward to stay, Stoudemire will opt-out of the $17.6 million left on the final year of his contract and declare himself a free agent.

For the first time, Miami appears to be waning as a potential destination for Stoudemire. “Everybody thinks he’s going to Miami,” a source in the Stoudemire camp said, “but that probably won’t happen.”

Sources say Stoudemire is still interested in staying with the Suns, but the uncertainty surrounding the departures of the top two basketball executives – Steve Kerr and David Griffin – have further clouded the franchise’s direction. Still, sources say Stoudemire is looking for reasons to stay with Steve Nash and the Suns – not leave.

Should the Suns lose Stoudemire, sources say Sarver is considering the possibility of making a push for New York Knicks free-agent forward David Lee. For the cost-cutting Sarver, Lee could be obtainable for $20 million-$30 million less over the life of a contract. Lee could command a five-year contract worth around $60 million. It would likely take the renouncing of valued bench player Channing Frye for the Suns to aggressively pursue Lee.

Sarver hasn’t been amenable, sources say, to dealing Stoudemire in a sign-and-trade. He wants less payroll, not more. Nevertheless, the Orlando Magic, Portland Trail Blazers, Dallas Mavericks and San Antonio Spurs could be possibilities in sign-and-trade scenarios for Stoudemire.

“They would have to really love the players coming back in a sign-and-trade,” one source familiar with Sarver’s thinking told Yahoo! Sports. “Their plan has been [using] a big trade exception or particular players that make much less.”

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-stoudemiresuns062810

There is some interesting information there, though we can't be sure how accurate those sources are. It makes sense that the Suns would not be looking to trade Amare to a team over the cap (like the ones mentioned), since we would have to take $18M of contracts back and that would prevent us from being able to sign someone to replace Amare. This scenario only works if we'd be getting a quality PF in return (someone the Suns really like), but that's unlikely.

A sign-and-trade with a team under the cap however would allow Phoenix to use the resulting trade exception to trade for someone they like (or do a sign-and-trade for someone). This, to me, would be the ideal scenario giving the Suns more options than just pursuing free agents and allowing us to re-sign Frye while keeping our payroll just under LT. But Sarver may be looking to save even more money by simply letting Amare walk. That would leave the Suns just about enough money under the cap to go after Lee, but they'd almost certainly have to let Frye leave as the article suggests. That would keep our payroll at around the salary cap, significantly below LT. It's also possible Sarver may do a sign-and-trade with Amare but not use the trade exception (or only use a small part of it). These two options keep our payroll low but leave us lacking at the PF position.

 

[elindholm]

The article is self-contradictory. Sarver is either trying to extend Stoudemire or trying to reduce payroll. He can't do both; that makes no sense at all.

 

[elindholm]

You are just wrong George. Also the extension Gasol signed is not comparable to the contracts these FREE AGENTS can and will sign.

George Irish apparently has me on Ignore, because I've explained several times, in direct responses to him, how maximum salaries are figured, and he still refuses to get it right. I've also pointed him to cbafaq.com, which he obviously hasn't looked at.

 

[Irish]

This stuff about signing 2 max free agents is fools gold. A team in the NBA needs to have at minimum 13 players on it. You sign 2 maximum players, you have only 11 million left to fit 11 players.

Chicago is the team in the best position because of 2 reasons: Noah and Rose. They can field a kick-ass starting lineup if they get 2 max guys, but the benches of any of those teams are going to be among the worst in the league.

Some of the TV reports are saying that some of the players might agree to play for less in order to play together. However, it sounds like wishful thinking on the part of reporters.Bad teams need more than a single superstar to get to elite level. Their challenge is to get two superstars their money when both feel the other is needed to make them a winner but neither wants to be the one to get "what is left" after the first signs.

 

[cly2tw]

From Wojnarowski's Yahoo article:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-stoudemiresuns062810

There is some interesting information there, though we can't be sure how accurate those sources are. It makes sense that the Suns would not be looking to trade Amare to a team over the cap (like the ones mentioned), since we would have to take $18M of contracts back and that would prevent us from being able to sign someone to replace Amare. This scenario only works if we'd be getting a quality PF in return (someone the Suns really like), but that's unlikely.

A sign-and-trade with a team under the cap however would allow Phoenix to use the resulting trade exception to trade for someone they like (or do a sign-and-trade for someone). This, to me, would be the ideal scenario giving the Suns more options than just pursuing free agents and allowing us to re-sign Frye while keeping our payroll just under LT. But Sarver may be looking to save even more money by simply letting Amare walk. That would leave the Suns just about enough money under the cap to go after Lee, but they'd almost certainly have to let Frye leave as the article suggests. That would keep our payroll at around the salary cap, significantly below LT. It's also possible Sarver may do a sign-and-trade with Amare but not use the trade exception (or only use a small part of it). These two options keep our payroll low but leave us lacking at the PF position.

Amare was looking for reasons to stay, Sarver might not be offering enough, or just not willing to. However, if Sarver indeed convinced Amare to stay, then it means he wanted to push for contending the title for at least the next 2 years with the team and be willing to spend more, which is complementary. Otherwise, he will do what most board members here have preached to him over and over: finanacial responsibility! What else is new?

 

[slinslin]

Dirk Nowitzki is the only one they should target to replace Amare, anyone else is a step back and they would be better of tanking next season.

 

[Mainstreet]

I read this article by Paul Coro at azcentral dated June 28th, 2010 and I can understand why Sarver does want to give Amare more years. He cannot be insured. This puts a whole new spin on it for me. This would make me backpedal as well. I think Sarver is just meeting with Amare to keep goodwill in case he lowers his contract expectations or there is a sign and trade.

The Suns improved their offer earlier this month from a February offer that put off Stoudemire. But even a willingness to pay him maximum salaries is not enough, because the Suns do not want to commit to him for the maximum six years, a deal that would pay him more than $130 million but can't be insured because of his knee and eye history. The Suns saw MRI exams on his knees recently and remain concerned. Walters said they were the same as last year.

This is a good article as it covers Amare the GM position and free agency.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/2010/06/28/20100628phoenix-suns-gm-stoudemire.html

 

[The Commish]

I read this article by Paul Coro at azcentral dated June 28th, 2010 and I can understand why Sarver does want to give Amare more years. He cannot be insured. This puts a whole new spin on it for me. This would make me backpedal as well. I think Sarver is just meeting with Amare to keep goodwill in case he lowers his contract expectations or there is a sign and trade.



This is a good article as it covers Amare the GM position and free agency.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/2010/06/28/20100628phoenix-suns-gm-stoudemire.html

Good find. The way I understood it was that he could be insured, but not for the entire length of the contract he demands (the insured years I heard was 4). This seems to align with what we hear on the length of contract being offered to him.

One thing that I don't think shows up either is if he will need another microfracture or not. That type of procedure is always a judgement call once a surgeon actually opens his knee up - hence why we were all shocked when he had his original microfracture done because it came out of nowhere.

Insurance or not, it wouldn't change how it could cripple our salary cap if he is ineffective for the remaining two years of his deal (see: O'Neal, Jermaine). This is why the new CBA will reduce the number of years on contracts or will include opt-out provisions. It's all a roll of the dice and it looks like $arver doesn't have the cajones. I hate $arver, but I can't exactly blame him for not wanting to potentially have the next K-mart or Jermaine O'neal on his books.

 

[Mainstreet]

Good find. The way I understood it was that he could be insured, but not for the entire length of the contract he demands (the insured years I heard was 4). This seems to align with what we hear on the length of contract being offered to him.

One thing that I don't think shows up either is if he will need another microfracture or not. That type of procedure is always a judgement call once a surgeon actually opens his knee up - hence why we were all shocked when he had his original microfracture done because it came out of nowhere.

Insurance or not, it wouldn't change how it could cripple our salary cap if he is ineffective for the remaining two years of his deal (see: O'Neal, Jermaine). This is why the new CBA will reduce the number of years on contracts or will include opt-out provisions. It's all a roll of the dice and it looks like $arver doesn't have the cajones. I hate $arver, but I can't exactly blame him for not wanting to potentially have the next K-mart or Jermaine O'neal on his books.

If Sarver offers Amare a four max extension (he makes 17.6M next season on his current contract) this is mighty rich. If Sarver lets him walk or does a sign and trade (if this offer is not acceptable) then so be it. IMO, Sarver has met Amare more than halfway. Let some other team take the gamble.