Suns meeting Amar'e Stoudemire, final deal extension push before July 1

[Ronin]

Can someone explain to me why Q-Rich back can be insured...but Amare Stoudemire knees can't be?

 

[Irish]

Lots off good stuff in this thread. I'll admit I thought the growth factor was 10% and not 10.5%. I'm still confused about the starting point of some of the scenerios. I always thought the only limit to the opening offer UFA was the salary cap. (Extensions are a different story).

It seems to me that one technique the Suns could use would be to front load their offer and make it a straght line, ie 3 years of $60 milllion is different than a deal starting at $17 million but runs longer. This strategy is more for RFA's, but might be helpful if it threatens the other team's cap space.

 

[Mainstreet]

Can someone explain to me why Q-Rich back can be insured...but Amare Stoudemire knees can't be?

Q could not be insured. The Suns had to throw in a first round draft pick (which turned out to be Nate Robinson) when NY balked at the last minute in a trade. I believe Q might have had some back problems. I am unaware of JRich's status in regard to being insured.

 

[Suns_fan69]

There is a threat of a lockout that means no revenue, but still having to pay out tons of money. I can almost guarantee a team like the Clippers will not get a max player simply because they stand to save some money if/when there is a lockout.

Wait, isn't the point of the lockout is so that the owners don't have to pay the players?

If there is a lockout, the owners stand to benefit more than the players, regardless of what salaries they are committed to.

 

[SunsTzu]

Wait, isn't the point of the lockout is so that the owners don't have to pay the players?

They don't have to pay the players but they have to pay everyone else in the organization. Probably a main factor why Sarver is wanting everyone to take a pay cut.

 

[KloD]

Most owners if not all will save money not having a season. The lock out will hurt the players far more than the owners. Most teams are losing money, the lockout is going to go until the players union caves. The owners will get everything they want in the end and the players will have lost a season of pay as well.

 

[elindholm]

Most owners if not all will save money not having a season. The lock out will hurt the players far more than the owners. Most teams are losing money, the lockout is going to go until the players union caves. The owners will get everything they want in the end and the players will have lost a season of pay as well.

I'm not sure I'd go to quite that extreme, but that's essentially correct. The lockout will hurt the players far more than it does the owners. It's already true that most teams (including Phoenix) aren't trying as hard as they can to win because they can't stomach the finances. Give a losing business the opportunity to take a year off in order to improve long-term health, why would they decline?

 

[mojorizen7]

I don't know. The Amare/Lopez combination showed considerable promise during the regular season. You can't really judge that tandem by their playoff showing as Robin was clearly a shadow of the oaf we've grown to love this year.

I started a thread a month ago that didn't go over well where I suggested we benefitted from an unusual amount of luck this year. I look at next season and cringe when I realize how unlucky we might end up being. Amare gone for nothing (or even worse, Amare recovering from his second microfracture surgery following his max dollar 5 year extension), Nash hobbling down the court for the 27 games his body holds up for and Lopez rehabbing from his 3 back surgeries are all quite possible stories next season.
Steve

I remember that thread. I could be mistaken but i'm pretty sure i wasn't one of the members of the mob carrying torches up the hill to pull you out of the castle by force....

I agree that the SUNS benefitted from some luck this past year, i also think they benefitted from a team concept that involved GUARDING the other team for once.....IMO getting Dirk in here to replace Amare and run with Nash just keeps this team afloat a couple more years, but doesn't solve any of our problems,a Band-Aid essentially.

I realize this isn't a popular stance and i'm ok with that.

 

[AzStevenCal]

IMO getting Dirk in here to replace Amare and run with Nash just keeps this team afloat a couple more years, but doesn't solve any of our problems,a Band-Aid essentially.

I realize this isn't a popular stance and i'm ok with that.

I'm actually on that same bandwagon. I think this team has gone as far as it can go but I doubt that they'll swallow the bullet. I'm firmly in favor of stripping this team to it's core and paying the price now rather than the lingering death they probably have planned.

I don't think Dirk would be a bad trade off for Amare though. He'd give us at least as much a chance of winning it all as Stat does. The problem though is with such an offensive minded team everything has to break perfectly in order to win it all, and things rarely break perfectly. We're better off building a balanced team.

Steve

 

[Irish]

I'm curious about any theory that Sarver can outbid Cuban for Dirk. Is there any reason to think either would cooperate in this scenerio?

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'm curious about any theory that Sarver can outbid Cuban for Dirk. Is there any reason to think either would cooperate in this scenerio?

Nothing substantial, IMO. If Cuban wants Dirk back (and I'm 99% sure he does) he'll get him back unless the lure of a championship takes him elsewhere. And even if that's the case, we're not likely to be in that picture anyway.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

Apparently progress was made in talks with Amare Tuesday and it will continue Wednesday per Paul Coro's blog at azcentral dated 6-29-10. This is interesting because the talks seemed like a formality.

Stoudemire participated in much of the meeting, as Walters and the Suns' brass met for more than three hours in regard to a contract extension.

Walters said they will continue talking Wednesday, when Stoudemire could become a free agent at 9 p.m. Arizona time by exercising an early termination option in his contract that has a $17.7 million salary left on it for next season.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/Blog/PaulCoro/87985

 

[Mainstreet]

Here is another link regarding Amare.

Suns Managing Partner Robert Sarver has stuck to the idea of giving Stoudemire a maximum-salary deal for four years (his existing remaining option season plus three more) but not for the maximum six years (option plus a five-year extension) that Stoudemire has desired. NBA sources said Sarver might be willing to change the extension's length to four years, which would give Stoudemire a five-year deal worth $107 million.

It sounds like Amare is really thinking hard about remaing a Sun. See another article from Paul Coro at azcentral dated 6-29-10.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/2010/06/29/20100629phoenix-suns-amare-stoudemire.html

 

[elindholm]

I'm curious about any theory that Sarver can outbid Cuban for Dirk. Is there any reason to think either would cooperate in this scenerio?

Nowitzki would have to be motivated by something other than maximum dollars. Of course, that possibility is the only reason for him to have opted out in the first place. It was already conceded that Cuban would pay him as much as he possibly could.

 

[SunsTzu]

Nowitzki would have to be motivated by something other than maximum dollars. Of course, that possibility is the only reason for him to have opted out in the first place. It was already conceded that Cuban would pay him as much as he possibly could.

By opting out Dirk can re-sign for more years which is the most likely outcome.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Suns Managing Partner Robert Sarver has stuck to the idea of giving Stoudemire a maximum-salary deal for four years (his existing remaining option season plus three more) but not for the maximum six years (option plus a five-year extension) that Stoudemire has desired. NBA sources said Sarver might be willing to change the extension's length to four years, which would give Stoudemire a five-year deal worth $107 million.

If Stoudemire went to another team without a sign-and-trade deal, the most he could sign for is five years and about $100 million because raises with another team are limited to 8.5 percent rather than the 10.5 percent raises he can have with Phoenix. That is where a sign-and-trade possibility enters the picture to get Stoudemire a larger contract and net the Suns a return of either players or a trade exception, which could be used to acquire a high-salary player without returning any contracts



Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...enix-suns-amare-stoudemire.html#ixzz0sMA8tBGO


Wow. Sarver is offering Amare more that what I would be comfortable giving him. If he is offering the 4 year extension, then its more than what any other team can offer. Can't see why Amare would not just do that.

If Amare commits to the Suns before everything breaks loose, panic will start to set in. Imagine what would happen if the Suns resigned Amare and Cleveland resigned LeBron. Yikes.

We'll see what Sarver is really made of. Amare can now demand super max from other teams. It might be what Sarver is asking him to do. Getting back a pick or two and an $18 million trade exception sure allows for some flexibility. It would effectively put the Suns in the FA market. They could use that trade exception to pick up any other FA in a sign and trade (like a Lee or Dirk). It also puts the Suns in a position to take dumped players at draft time.

 

[SunsTzu]

They could use that trade exception to pick up any other FA in a sign and trade (like a Lee or Dirk). It also puts the Suns in a position to take dumped players at draft time.

Unless I'm mistaken, you can't combine TPE with cap space. If the Suns want to make a run at Dirk if Amare leaves they will need to find a way to unload Barbosa.

 

[elindholm]

By opting out Dirk can re-sign for more years which is the most likely outcome.

It's the most likely, but it's not a forgone conclusion. Otherwise Nowitzki would have been saying so all along. Cuban has already said he'll offer a maximum extension, so there's no reason for Nowitzki to be silent unless he's at least considering the possibility of leaving.

 

[SunsTzu]

It's the most likely, but it's not a forgone conclusion.

I know, I still have a small shred of hope the Suns will land Dirk somehow. I just fully expect Dirk to sign a 6 year max contract with the Mavs soon after FA starts.

 

[elindholm]

I know, I still have a small shred of hope the Suns will land Dirk somehow. I just fully expect Dirk to sign a 6 year max contract with the Mavs soon after FA starts.

Yes, me too, I was just trying to explain to someone else where the speculation comes from.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Unless I'm mistaken, you can't combine TPE with cap space. If the Suns want to make a run at Dirk if Amare leaves they will need to find a way to unload Barbosa.

You don't have to combine it. Just use the exception.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I am not sure signing Dirk is a good idea. We need to get younger. While he would make us a better team now (maybe even better than if we kept Amare), he stunts the ability of younger players to get time. Older players sometimes run out of gas in the playoffs. I am afraid that is all we would get from Dirk--a decent season and a tired playoff run.

The upside would be that he would be done when Nash would be done, and we would drop roughly $35 million from the payroll all at once in order to rebuild.

 

[SunsTzu]

You don't have to combine it. Just use the exception.

My mistake I thought you were implying they could use the combination of the cap plus the TPE to give Dirk a max deal.

I don't see why a team would work out a S&T for a TPE though. If the Suns aren't a threat to sign Dirk outright then I don't see why the Mavs would want to accommodate they with a S&T.

Seems that TPE are usually traded for by teams trying to shed existing salary.

 

[carey]

Older players sometimes run out of gas in the playoffs.

See '09-'10 Celtics?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

See '09-'10 Celtics?

Getting to Game 7 of the NBA Finals is running out of gas?