Suns @ Pistons

[BC867]

I now know the real reason we never won a championship during 7 SOL. If Nash determined every victory then he just did not play well enough in some games for us to win a championship. Otherwise we would have never lost.

But seriously, JWB . . .

D'Antoni's 7.5 man rotation wore out the Suns, especially Steve, as each season progressed.

I posted early every season that the Suns would regress "down the stretch and in the playoffs".

The players should think primarily about their next game. Each next game.

But it is the responsibility of the Head Coach to always consider the big picture. D'Antoni was extremely deficient in this area. Concerned evidently about putting on a show as long as he could.

 

[Catlover]

But seriously, JWB . . .

D'Antoni's 7.5 man rotation wore out the Suns, especially Steve, as each season progressed.

I posted early every season that the Suns would regress "down the stretch and in the playoffs".

The players should think primarily about their next game. Each next game.

But it is the responsibility of the Head Coach to always consider the big picture. D'Antoni was extremely deficient in this area. Concerned evidently about putting on a show as long as he could.

Nash may have worn down at the end of each season but he really didn't play all that many minutes. Only Shawn and Joe broke the 3,000 minute mark during Mike's coaching run. And Nash actually averaged fewer minutes annually in his 4 seasons under D'antoni than he had his last 3 seasons in Dallas.

Also, 7.5 is inaccurate too - it was more like 8.5. His rotation was a little tighter than the league average. Considering our pace it probably was an occasional issue but I don't believe anyone really wore down from excessive minutes. Where I believe the tighter rotation hurt us most was when injuries (and suspensions) occurred. It's hard to expect someone to fill in effectively if they're not used to playing.

 

[Phrazbit]

Nash may have worn down at the end of each season but he really didn't play all that many minutes. Only Shawn and Joe broke the 3,000 minute mark during Mike's coaching run. And Nash actually averaged fewer minutes annually in his 4 seasons under D'antoni than he had his last 3 seasons in Dallas.

Also, 7.5 is inaccurate too - it was more like 8.5. His rotation was a little tighter than the league average. Considering our pace it probably was an occasional issue but I don't believe anyone really wore down from excessive minutes. Where I believe the tighter rotation hurt us most was when injuries (and suspensions) occurred. It's hard to expect someone to fill in effectively if they're not used to playing.

We were at the bottom of the league in bench usage while D'Antoni was here. 7.5 man rotation is pretty accurate. Nash's already rather high 35 minutes a game in the regular season would jump to ~40 in the playoffs.

But its all beside the point. JWB is a one topic poster who believe that D'Antoni should be sanctified. Its a topic that really should be dead. D'Antoni isn't coming back and he likely isn't getting hired anywhere because his coaching record was a nightmare separated from Nash.

And JWB, Nash doesn't get the blame because he quite obviously carried the franchise and was a highly successful player with and without Mike D'Antoni.

 

[Catlover]

We were at the bottom of the league in bench usage while D'Antoni was here. 7.5 man rotation is pretty accurate. Nash's already rather high 35 minutes a game in the regular season would jump to ~40 in the playoffs.

But its all beside the point. JWB is a one topic poster who believe that D'Antoni should be sanctified. Its a topic that really should be dead. D'Antoni isn't coming back and he likely isn't getting hired anywhere because his coaching record was a nightmare separated from Nash.

And JWB, Nash doesn't get the blame because he quite obviously carried the franchise and was a highly successful player with and without Mike D'Antoni.

I probably should have paid more attention to the per game instead of totals but still, averaging just under 35 minutes per game for a 30 year old isn't that far out of line. And I didn't realize they'd increased his minutes so much in the playoffs.

 

[BC867]

I probably should have paid more attention to the per game instead of totals but still, averaging just under 35 minutes per game for a 30 year old isn't that far out of line. And I didn't realize they'd increased his minutes so much in the playoffs.

With all due respect, quoting Steve's season's MPG didn't tell the story.

'Like the guy with one foot in a pail of boiling water and the other in a pail of dry ice. On average, he's pretty comfortable.

We watched Steve's stamina wear down as the season wore down.

And with D'Antoni's unique style, so dependent on MVSteve, as he deteriorated each year while running the offense, so did the rest of the team.

A vicious cycle. When Steve was very, very good, the Suns were very, very good. As he wore out, they were horrid. Or, at best, mediocre. With no Plan B.

 

[JustWinBaby]

We were at the bottom of the league in bench usage while D'Antoni was here. 7.5 man rotation is pretty accurate. Nash's already rather high 35 minutes a game in the regular season would jump to ~40 in the playoffs.

But its all beside the point. JWB is a one topic poster who believe that D'Antoni should be sanctified. Its a topic that really should be dead. D'Antoni isn't coming back and he likely isn't getting hired anywhere because his coaching record was a nightmare separated from Nash.

And JWB, Nash doesn't get the blame because he quite obviously carried the franchise and was a highly successful player with and without Mike D'Antoni.

You just don't get it. I do not think he should be sanctified. I also do not think he should be crucified. He did a very good job here and at his other stops, IMO. The won loss record at his other stops do not tell the whole story but you are too stubborn to admit it. He had crap too work with much of the time in New York and the last year in LA he had nothing. In those two stops he also had to deal with the Melo and Kobe factors, not easy. He also had nothing in Denver.

Quite frankly my favorite coach in recent memory was Scott Skiles. I think it was a mistake to let him go. He has Orlando playing well this year and did a good job in Milwaukee. I wish him nothing but success.

There is not much to post about the current team that is not negative. They are hard to watch and I really cannot stand to watch Tucker or Morris play one minute of basketball let alone the 30 + minutes they get most every night from Hornacek.

Until Hornacek, Morris and Tucker are out of here we will be at best be treading water and playing unwatchable basketball. I can guarantee you Mike would either make them productive or they would be on the bench. If Mike were the coach and did bench them I know you would be bitching that he benched them.

I can also guarantee you Leurer, Booker and Warren would be a consistent part of the rotation.

I also guarantee that the ball would move with or without Nash at the controls.

If we do fire Hornacek I have no idea whom we should go after to replace him so he is probably safe at this point. My hope is that he grows a pair and benches those two guys and demands ball movement or you sit. That must apply to everyone, especially Bledsoe and Knight.

I wish we would have hired Budenholzer rather than Hornacek. The ball would move and we would be fun too watch. I also expect that both Morris and Tucker would be either on the bench or not on the team.

 

[Phrazbit]

I guarantee that we'd be horrible because we don't have the type of personelle that D'Antoni can work with. Fight it all you want but the guy was wretched without Nash.

When the Knicks fired him, a roster that you think was a disaster, they immediately went ape, doubled their winning percentage and had their best season in over a decade, and that was with Mike Woodson at the helm... whom also sucks.

D'Antoni is too stubborn to adjust his style, he never develops his bench ("blah blah blah he never had players anywhere in 9 years coaching"), he insanely decided Earl Clark was a better player than Pau Gasol.

He cannot win without Nash. Period. The guy had a lot of all-stars on his rosters but unless Nash was one of them he couldn't do jack. With this roster I cannot imagine how lost he'd be.

This is not a defense of Hornacek, Horny's rotations are a mess right now, but Mike would be worse, every single shred of evidence he has put forth in his career virtually guarantees he'd be worse.

I don't even know why I respond to this stuff anymore...

 

[JustWinBaby]

I guarantee that we'd be horrible because we don't have the type of personelle that D'Antoni can work with. Fight it all you want but the guy was wretched without Nash.

When the Knicks fired him, a roster that you think was a disaster, they immediately went ape, doubled their winning percentage and had their best season in over a decade, and that was with Mike Woodson at the helm... whom also sucks.

D'Antoni is too stubborn to adjust his style, he never develops his bench ("blah blah blah he never had players anywhere in 9 years coaching"), he insanely decided Earl Clark was a better player than Pau Gasol.

He cannot win without Nash. Period. The guy had a lot of all-stars on his rosters but unless Nash was one of them he couldn't do jack. With this roster I cannot imagine how lost he'd be.

This is not a defense of Hornacek, Horny's rotations are a mess right now, but Mike would be worse, every single shred of evidence he has put forth in his career virtually guarantees he'd be worse.

I don't even know why I respond to this stuff anymore...

When did I suggest that Mike would be a good fit with the group of players we currently have?

This roster has been changed dramatically to fit Hornacek's style, whatever that might be. I expect Bledsoe might be effective in Mike's system but I have my doubts on Knight. We will never know.

I just do not understand your vendetta against MDA.

Did he poison your first born or have a child out of wedlock with a close relative.

I just don't get it.

IMO, he is a great guy that coaches a fun style of basketball to watch. His teams share the ball, which is the way the game is supposed to be played. He doesn't put the blame for every loss on his players. He also has won multiple championships as a player and coach, in Europe. Yeah not the NBA. He has won the same number of championships in Phoenix that every other coach has won in Phoenix, Zero. He certainly does not deserve to be crucified the way you and others do. That is my beef. He is long gone, remember the memories. For the most part they are pretty damn good.

To say Hornacek is a better coach than D'Antoni is laughable.

From your recent comments on Hornacek you do not like him much either.

Who do you like?

 

[Phrazbit]

What you call a "vendetta" is merely a factual account of the statistical record. He cannot win without Nash. Period. There are a LOT of seasons with a lot of teams that back that fact up profoundly.

And yes, I suspect if you loaded up this roster with a bunch of All-Stars like D'Antoni had that Hornacek could also be carried to success.

 

[BC867]

He had crap too work with much of the time in New York and the last year in LA he had nothing. In those two stops he also had to deal with the Melo and Kobe factors, not easy. He also had nothing in Denver.

So in your two examples, not having stars was an alibi for a bad record and having stars was an alibi for a bad record.

Nobody needs to alibi success. Only failures. The common denominator was the Head Coach for whom you alibi.

Mike D'Antoni was an incomplete coach with one gimmick. You can't expect that to sustain. Especially the way he wore down his limited rotation in a league that causes weariness on its own.