Thunder @ Suns 3-6-14

[GYDevil]

Tremendous game by the Suns. That is what NBA basketball should be all about. Green was unconscious in the third quarter and they made big plays down the stretch. Goran has matured into a superstar and the Morris twins have developed into legitimate NBA players.

The bad news is that this kind of performance from the Suns is not sustainable long term. Their defense is really poor and you can't expect Green and the Morris twins to be as hot as they were last night. This looked to me like the one win in a playoff series that you get beat 4-1. Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka are all unstoppable with the Suns D the way it is. The only chance is to outscore them, and the Suns will not do that effectively to have any shot in a playoff series.

 

[Catlover]

Tremendous game by the Suns. That is what NBA basketball should be all about. Green was unconscious in the third quarter and they made big plays down the stretch. Goran has matured into a superstar and the Morris twins have developed into legitimate NBA players.

The bad news is that this kind of performance from the Suns is not sustainable long term. Their defense is really poor and you can't expect Green and the Morris twins to be as hot as they were last night. This looked to me like the one win in a playoff series that you get beat 4-1. Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka are all unstoppable with the Suns D the way it is. The only chance is to outscore them, and the Suns will not do that effectively to have any shot in a playoff series.

How about "unstoppable given the talent difference between these two teams". Your comment makes it sound like it's a simple coaching philosophy that keeps us from locking the Thunder down. It's a simple coaching philosophy that gives us a chance to play far above our talent level. Of course we could focus non-stop on defense, play the best defenders on our roster and shorten the game. The result would be a never-ending string of losses where we held the opponent under 90 points while failing to score 80 ourselves. I think I prefer the way we're doing it.

 

[Chaplin]

As a twin "hater", I think it's rather sad all the potshots being taken in our general direction.

They played great last night, no doubt, and Markieff is starting to put together some consistency. I always said, if he did that, my opinion would change, and it is changing a little bit at a time. Still not my favorite player and still not somebody I would depend on every night to win games, but he's definitely a solid, if not spectacular, NBA player. His brother, well, he is what he is. An average player who has an above-average performance every so often (to go along with his other below-average performances every so often).

 

[Catlover]

As a twin "hater", I think it's rather sad all the potshots being taken in our general direction.

They played great last night, no doubt, and Markieff is starting to put together some consistency. I always said, if he did that, my opinion would change, and it is changing a little bit at a time. Still not my favorite player and still not somebody I would depend on every night to win games, but he's definitely a solid, if not spectacular, NBA player. His brother, well, he is what he is. An average player who has an above-average performance every so often (to go along with his other below-average performances every so often).

Why? Some of the posters have been very harsh in their criticism of the twins so why would you take issue with this kind of response? It's not like you were called out by name and the comments by no means rise to the level some of the haters have dished it out at. And everyone on this board knows that a few of them will rush out of the woodwork the moment one or both of them have their next bad game.

For some reason a lot of fans have demanded a level of excellence from Frye and the twins that defies reason (IMO). None of those three are perfect but they've each performed beyond expectations. Markieff is a solid entry in the 6th man race and Marcus has outplayed his matchup more often than not. As bench players they are remarkable. I'm not sure how either of them would do as starters but as subs they've given us a weapon that few teams can match.

 

[Suns_fan69]

The thing I'm most impressed with the twins is (well, Markieff at least) is the level of commitment they are bringing on the defensive end compared to last year and even earlier this year. They seem to be much more active with their hands and are often asked to guard both bigger/stronger and smaller/quicker players. Can't really avoid this because of their pseudo tweener status but they're no longer an embarrassment on that end.

 

[JS22]

As a twin "hater", I think it's rather sad all the potshots being taken in our general direction.

They played great last night, no doubt, and Markieff is starting to put together some consistency. I always said, if he did that, my opinion would change, and it is changing a little bit at a time. Still not my favorite player and still not somebody I would depend on every night to win games, but he's definitely a solid, if not spectacular, NBA player. His brother, well, he is what he is. An average player who has an above-average performance every so often (to go along with his other below-average performances every so often).

How can you hate someone who gives you 13/6 off the bench, shoots a decent % from most areas, and defends pretty well?

 

[sunsfan88]

Why? Some of the posters have been very harsh in their criticism of the twins so why would you take issue with this kind of response? It's not like you were called out by name and the comments by no means rise to the level some of the haters have dished it out at. And everyone on this board knows that a few of them will rush out of the woodwork the moment one or both of them have their next bad game.

For some reason a lot of fans have demanded a level of excellence from Frye and the twins that defies reason (IMO). None of those three are perfect but they've each performed beyond expectations. Markieff is a solid entry in the 6th man race and Marcus has outplayed his matchup more often than not. As bench players they are remarkable. I'm not sure how either of them would do as starters but as subs they've given us a weapon that few teams can match.

Nobody demands excellence from Frye. They demand him to at least score double digits a game and pull down 8-10 rebounds as the starting forward on the team.

Some defense would be nice too.

If Kieff was starting and putting up the same numbers that Frye is right now, I'd be bashing and "hating" on his play too.

 

[desertdawg]

Tremendous game by the Suns. That is what NBA basketball should be all about. Green was unconscious in the third quarter and they made big plays down the stretch. Goran has matured into a superstar and the Morris twins have developed into legitimate NBA players.

The bad news is that this kind of performance from the Suns is not sustainable long term. Their defense is really poor and you can't expect Green and the Morris twins to be as hot as they were last night. This looked to me like the one win in a playoff series that you get beat 4-1. Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka are all unstoppable with the Suns D the way it is. The only chance is to outscore them, and the Suns will not do that effectively to have any shot in a playoff series.

You just refuse to see what's going on. That kind of a win teaches a young team how to win in the long term. You have to be the only cat to try and pull some stuff like that after the Suns win like that. I saw improvement, you just see a team with out Gasol, lmao.

 

[Mainstreet]

Len: 6 pts, 3 rebounds, 5 fouls and -11 in 11 mins.

Adams: 0 pts, 1 rebound, 2 fouls and +12 in 11 mins.

I guess nobody really "won" this match up.

I fully expected Adams to win this matchup with Len because he has received more playing time.

However, let's not be shy, our rookie smashed their rookie.

 

[Mainstreet]

Tremendous game by the Suns. That is what NBA basketball should be all about. Green was unconscious in the third quarter and they made big plays down the stretch. Goran has matured into a superstar and the Morris twins have developed into legitimate NBA players.

The bad news is that this kind of performance from the Suns is not sustainable long term. Their defense is really poor and you can't expect Green and the Morris twins to be as hot as they were last night. This looked to me like the one win in a playoff series that you get beat 4-1. Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka are all unstoppable with the Suns D the way it is. The only chance is to outscore them, and the Suns will not do that effectively to have any shot in a playoff series.

The Suns have yet to add Bledsoe back into the equation, so the Suns should hopefully be a better team when he returns. Also there are the X factors, Plumlee and Len.

 

[Phrazbit]

Nobody demands excellence from Frye. They demand him to at least score double digits a game and pull down 8-10 rebounds as the starting forward on the team.

Some defense would be nice too.

If Kieff was starting and putting up the same numbers that Frye is right now, I'd be bashing and "hating" on his play too.

Im rather critical of Frye but to say you dont demand excellence, but you expect at least double digit scoring and near double digit rebounds on average? That IS excellence.

I'd be okay if he averaged 6 boards a game and he didnt pass up open looks and disrupt the offense (something he does often when a cold spell goes to his head). Nights where he goes 1-4, while passing up open looks to throw it to a contested teammates and gets 3 rebounds, those nights piss me off.

Last night's 11 points 5 boards in 23 minutes, not great, not bad, not worth complaining about.

 

[sunsfan88]

10 pts and 10 boards a game isn't excellence to me. 28 pts and 15 rebounds a game aka Shaq in his prime is what I consider excellence. So yea right now I don't think there are any excellent big men in the NBA.

Considering his mins, Frye's gotta get at least 7 rebounds a game.

 

[sunsfan88]

I saw improvement, you just see a team with out Gasol, lmao.

I laughed way too hard at this :laugh:

 

[Hoop Head]

This is a really deep draft and yet I'd be fine if we walked away with two more players of their caliber. I'd still rather keep them coming in off the bench but if Frye keeps playing like he has recently we might not be able to survive that. I just hope we have the option of starting them next season. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a team make the two of them offers that surprise the fans on this board.

That is another year away though. We have them locked up next year and they don't become restricted free agents until the 2015-16 season. I don't see the Suns giving them an extension prior to that because they've been very inconsistent up until this year. It's best to let them head into free agency then restricted because I doubt they'd command much. Kieff would probably get around the MLE in free agency from somewhere but I don't think Marcus would get much more than 3 million per year deal. If the Suns could lock them both up for around 7-8 million per season that would be a good deal and fair value.

 

[Catlover]

That is another year away though. We have them locked up next year and they don't become restricted free agents until the 2015-16 season. I don't see the Suns giving them an extension prior to that because they've been very inconsistent up until this year. It's best to let them head into free agency then restricted because I doubt they'd command much. Kieff would probably get around the MLE in free agency from somewhere but I don't think Marcus would get much more than 3 million per year deal. If the Suns could lock them both up for around 7-8 million per season that would be a good deal and fair value.

I think Markieff alone will get an offer in that neighborhood (at least 6 Mil IMO). He's effective down low and on the perimeter and the league seems to put a premium on that combination these days.

The problem for them is that they clearly want to stay together so that might lessen their leverage. I agree they've been inconsistent but that's not all that uncommon for young players and it's just as fair to say they've been improving steadily each year. I was really hoping that we would lock Bledsoe up prior to his deadline and I feel the same way about the twins. They may not be as valuable as Eric but it never seems to work out well for the team when they don't get the deal done early.

 

[KloD]

I think Markieff alone will get an offer in that neighborhood (at least 6 Mil IMO). He's effective down low and on the perimeter and the league seems to put a premium on that combination these days.

The problem for them is that they clearly want to stay together so that might lessen their leverage. I agree they've been inconsistent but that's not all that uncommon for young players and it's just as fair to say they've been improving steadily each year. I was really hoping that we would lock Bledsoe up prior to his deadline and I feel the same way about the twins. They may not be as valuable as Eric but it never seems to work out well for the team when they don't get the deal done early.

I think if he wasn't trying to stay with his brother you would be close, but I believe his desire to play with his brother will put him in a position to take less. $8-9 million a year for both in some combination seems fair to me. I love their heart and I don't think you can ignore their importance to the chemistry this team has. I would be ok to see them get Dudley type contract offers from the Suns. I think it's safe to say that if the Suns plan to keep one, they have to plan to keep the other or they should let them both go.

 

[JustWinBaby]

I think if he wasn't trying to stay with his brother you would be close, but I believe his desire to play with his brother will put him in a position to take less. $8-9 million a year for both in some combination seems fair to me. I love their heart and I don't think you can ignore their importance to the chemistry this team has. I would be ok to see them get Dudley type contract offers from the Suns. I think it's safe to say that if the Suns plan to keep one, they have to plan to keep the other or they should let them both go.

Wow

To compare the twins to Dudley is insane. Dudley might have a higher "basketball IQ", but that is not a given, IMO. Both the twins have great NBA bodies and athleticism. Both can get their own shot without having to be hand fed. Both of the twins are worth far more than Dudley plus they are only 24 years old. They also appear to not be overly thrilled with what they have accomplished, which is a good thing. I see much more growth in the future from both of them. I think you saw the best of Dudley when he was with the Suns.

I have no idea what they will command on the upon market, especially with the new CBA but it will be more than what Dudley is getting paid and more than $10 mil combined. If anyone thinks otherwise they are wrong. The only question is whether or not we decide to pay them what they will be worth.

There also has been the suggestion that we can just replace what they bring with our first round draft picks. I highly doubt that as well. Our draft picks are not going to be very high, unless next years Laker pick ends up in the lottery.

It will be interesting to see how McDonough handles them this off season. I expect they will either get paid over $10 mil combined or packaged in a deal to bring in someone that Ryan likes better. I am not sure who that is. The obvious target will be Love but I am not sure that will happen. I just hope it is not for someone like Melo or Gay.

I think the twins will be with the Suns for a long time and will be paid more than what anyone is suggesting.

I am probably wrong, so be it.

 

[Mainstreet]

An interesting thought if the Suns extend the Morris twins, which they should, could it be that both players would want close to an equal salary? They are so close, it wouldn't surprise me. So the Suns might be looking at an aggregate amount of money to set aside to split between the two.

 

[Catlover]

I think if he wasn't trying to stay with his brother you would be close, but I believe his desire to play with his brother will put him in a position to take less. $8-9 million a year for both in some combination seems fair to me. I love their heart and I don't think you can ignore their importance to the chemistry this team has. I would be ok to see them get Dudley type contract offers from the Suns. I think it's safe to say that if the Suns plan to keep one, they have to plan to keep the other or they should let them both go.

I met some resistance when I made this same point early in the season. At the time the opposition thinking seemed to be they were prima donnas if they needed to be treated as a pair and that we should divest ourselves of them for this reason alone. Hopefully the front office realizes how important it is to treat them as a matched pair. I'd prefer to keep them but I won't be devastated if we trade them both.

I also agree about their impact on the team chemistry. They are bonded together in a way that I've never seen from NBA brothers and it's clearly helped bring this team closer. I suspect it could also be a divisive issue if they were in a locker room that was at cross purposes so it's fortunate that's not the case for us. I think they've more than held their own on the court but what they've done in helping to build team unity is something special.

As for them being willing to play for less in order to stay together, I agree they probably will. However, I think it's equally important to not take advantage of this desire as it will likely bite us in the butt in a year or two. If the market shows them to be worth 11 million per and we talk them into taking 8 or 9 million to stay together I suspect we'll regret it before long. No matter how much money you make, being paid less than your perceived value doesn't sit well. They'll appreciate the fact we kept them both but that's the kind of detail that tends to get overlooked when a person starts feeling under-appreciated. JMO.

 

[Hoop Head]

Wow

To compare the twins to Dudley is insane. Dudley might have a higher "basketball IQ", but that is not a given, IMO. Both the twins have great NBA bodies and athleticism. Both can get their own shot without having to be hand fed. Both of the twins are worth far more than Dudley plus they are only 24 years old. They also appear to not be overly thrilled with what they have accomplished, which is a good thing. I see much more growth in the future from both of them. I think you saw the best of Dudley when he was with the Suns.

I have no idea what they will command on the upon market, especially with the new CBA but it will be more than what Dudley is getting paid and more than $10 mil combined. If anyone thinks otherwise they are wrong. The only question is whether or not we decide to pay them what they will be worth.

There also has been the suggestion that we can just replace what they bring with our first round draft picks. I highly doubt that as well. Our draft picks are not going to be very high, unless next years Laker pick ends up in the lottery.

It will be interesting to see how McDonough handles them this off season. I expect they will either get paid over $10 mil combined or packaged in a deal to bring in someone that Ryan likes better. I am not sure who that is. The obvious target will be Love but I am not sure that will happen. I just hope it is not for someone like Melo or Gay.

I think the twins will be with the Suns for a long time and will be paid more than what anyone is suggesting.

I am probably wrong, so be it.

I don't believe he was comparing them to Dudley as players at all, he only mentioned contract wise they should probably get a contract similar to the one he got from us. The twins are totally different players than Dudley all around.

Also the new CBA would most likely dictate a smaller contract rather than a larger one. Dudley was given just under the MLE if I recall correctly which if you averaged what the two should and will get I think that's about the best they can expect unless they progress a lot next year.

 

[KloD]

Wow

To compare the twins to Dudley is insane. Dudley might have a higher "basketball IQ", but that is not a given, IMO. Both the twins have great NBA bodies and athleticism. Both can get their own shot without having to be hand fed. Both of the twins are worth far more than Dudley plus they are only 24 years old. They also appear to not be overly thrilled with what they have accomplished, which is a good thing. I see much more growth in the future from both of them. I think you saw the best of Dudley when he was with the Suns.

I have no idea what they will command on the upon market, especially with the new CBA but it will be more than what Dudley is getting paid and more than $10 mil combined. If anyone thinks otherwise they are wrong. The only question is whether or not we decide to pay them what they will be worth.

There also has been the suggestion that we can just replace what they bring with our first round draft picks. I highly doubt that as well. Our draft picks are not going to be very high, unless next years Laker pick ends up in the lottery.

It will be interesting to see how McDonough handles them this off season. I expect they will either get paid over $10 mil combined or packaged in a deal to bring in someone that Ryan likes better. I am not sure who that is. The obvious target will be Love but I am not sure that will happen. I just hope it is not for someone like Melo or Gay.

I think the twins will be with the Suns for a long time and will be paid more than what anyone is suggesting.

I am probably wrong, so be it.

If your goal was to insult me, success. If your goal was to display a lack of reading comprehension, again success. I never compared anyone let alone the twins to Dudley. I only suggested I'd be happy with them getting similar contract offers to what the Suns paid Dudley.

 

[Catlover]

I don't believe he was comparing them to Dudley as players at all, he only mentioned contract wise they should probably get a contract similar to the one he got from us. The twins are totally different players than Dudley all around.

Also the new CBA would most likely dictate a smaller contract rather than a larger one. Dudley was given just under the MLE if I recall correctly which if you averaged what the two should and will get I think that's about the best they can expect unless they progress a lot next year.

I guess that puts them around the 8 - 9 million mark that KloD suggested. I hope you guys are right but I think the word around the league on these two is very positive and I'm sure someone will target them. They've improved considerably and show signs of becoming even better, I'd be surprised if the two of them together don't pull in at least 11 million.

There are 111 players making 6 mil or more and I don't believe there are 111 players in the league that are better than Keef (especially if you subtract the stars that are underpaid because it's their first contract). Not that it's anywhere near gospel but Hollinger's PER ranking has Marcus as the 110th best player and Markieff at 50th. If you just went straight by their ranking and compared it to the ranking by salary that would have them compensated at roughly 16 Million per. I doubt they pull that kind of an offer but I don't see them accepting less than 11/12 per.

 

[Mainstreet]

I guess that puts them around the 8 - 9 million mark that KloD suggested. I hope you guys are right but I think the word around the league on these two is very positive and I'm sure someone will target them. They've improved considerably and show signs of becoming even better, I'd be surprised if the two of them together don't pull in at least 11 million.

There are 111 players making 6 mil or more and I don't believe there are 111 players in the league that are better than Keef (especially if you subtract the stars that are underpaid because it's their first contract). Not that it's anywhere near gospel but Hollinger's PER ranking has Marcus as the 110th best player and Markieff at 50th. If you just went straight by their ranking and compared it to the ranking by salary that would have them compensated at roughly 16 Million per. I doubt they pull that kind of an offer but I don't see them accepting less than 11/12 per.

I'm thinking a combined salary of 11 million for the Morris twins is close to right.

 

[elindholm]

To me Markieff is clearly the more promising player, and if he wants to fulfill his NBA potential, he has to get over whatever reliance he might have on playing with his brother. If he's not able to assert himself as an individual, he's never going to amount to much more than he is now.

Marcus might as well be kept around, but I want to see most of Markieff's minutes come when Marcus isn't on the floor. That will be the only way to assess either twin's real value. This brotherly love business is endearing, but it isn't a long-term solution.

 

[Errntknght]

The stretch run ahead will be a good test for the Morris twins. I must admit they have both surprised me this year, Markieff more than Marcus because I believed he'd never quit shooting 3's and go to work inside. Marcus hasn't curtailed his long range shooting but he's improved it some, enough to make it a plus.

However, I still don't rate them as above average at their positions at either end of the floor. I think they can improve but I want to see it before I worry about what kind of contract they deserve. Without improvement they are still backup players - good, solid ones but not starter material on a contending team. In fact I'd like to see them in the playoffs because I'm fearful that they will be physically overmatched in playoff basketball.