Zaven Collins re-signs for two more years

[DVontel]

Reddick had zero pass rush ability himself

This isn’t true. Reddick was a pass-rusher coming out, but then Steve Keim got thirsty seeing him doing a few ILB reps at the Senior Bowl & it was downhill from there.

 

[Stout]

Agreed. But I also believe that he can be a rotational player who can be used on run downs and goal line situations. So I have no problem with bringing him back for two more years.

That's not worth 7 mill per, though.

 

[Stout]

Zaven was decent at everything other than getting to the QB last year. Lorenzo Alexander talked about him during the off-season and was saying that from his film study, the Cardinals didn't really just unleash him as a pass rusher and that they needed to let him just go and do it.

I think with BJ's injury, the Cardinals are now kind of forced to use him as a pass rusher quite a bit more. They also have to consider using Mack Wilson at edge too.

White BJ didn't show much last year, the Cardinals were expecting a big jump, so it's a huge loss overall.

I agree with all of this, but we already had him under contract. No need to extend his deal. It just tells me Monti still doesn't plan to adequately address the Edge position, will sit on a ton of cap space yet again, and won't be aggressive at all at filling one of the most important position groups on the field.

Hooray insanely conservative GM.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

That's not worth 7 mill per, though.

This

He's a JAG and more in the $3-4 mil slot to me

 

[Krangodnzr]

I agree with all of this, but we already had him under contract. No need to extend his deal. It just tells me Monti still doesn't plan to adequately address the Edge position, will sit on a ton of cap space yet again, and won't be aggressive at all at filling one of the most important position groups on the field.

Hooray insanely conservative GM.

I think it tells you that Collins is an interim plan. He's being paid like a mid-level edge free agent would be. VERY LITTLE downside to this and way more upside.

In the unlikely event that Collins becomes a very good starter, the Cardinals have him locked in at a very affordable rate, and if he doesn't, you still aren't paying him top money.

 

[Stout]

I think it tells you that Collins is an interim plan. He's being paid like a mid-level edge free agent would be. VERY LITTLE downside to this and way more upside.

In the unlikely event that Collins becomes a very good starter, the Cardinals have him locked in at a very affordable rate, and if he doesn't, you still aren't paying him top money.

For the board being mostly in the conservative build and save money camp, they're definitely loose with wasting money. Why pay extra for a JAG? Save the 3-4 mill per year and spend it wisely elsewhere. (I know, I don't have faith they would spend it, but still). Same with extending JC multiple years rather than just year at a time. It doesn't fit the mold people seem to want us to follow.

 

[HairZach]

This

He's a JAG and more in the $3-4 mil slot to me

He was our highest graded player on defense last year, is good in coverage and great stopping the run. $7 million is appropriate, he is a tier above Gardeck. He's not a star but certainly someone you would want to keep on the 53.

 

[BACH]

This

He's a JAG and more in the $3-4 mil slot to me

Lavonte David and Jordan Hicks got contracts in the same range as Collins. Collins is much younger, rated higher in his first year in a new scheme and essentially position. I would take Collins any day over both of them considering where they are in their careers.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

How many plays last year did we say wow look at that play Collins made?

He did his job but nothing spectacular, no big plays just doing what he's supposed to do. To me that's just another guy

 

[cardncubfan]

For the board being mostly in the conservative build and save money camp, they're definitely loose with wasting money. Why pay extra for a JAG? Save the 3-4 mill per year and spend it wisely elsewhere. (I know, I don't have faith they would spend it, but still). Same with extending JC multiple years rather than just year at a time. It doesn't fit the mold people seem to want us to follow.

First you complain about keeping the powder dry, then when they do use it to extend a player they like, you bitch about that too. Which is it? Do you want them to keep the powder dry or do you want them to use it to extend players who they like & feel are contributors?

 

[Cheesebeef]

First you complain about keeping the powder dry, then when they do use it to extend a player they like, you bitch about that too. Which is it? Do you want them to keep the powder dry or do you want them to use it to extend players who they like & feel are contributors?

False choice. He wants them to extend players HE thinks are worthwhile contributors. He obviously doesn’t think Zaven is one of those. Presenting the idea that he speaking out of both sides of his mouth while projecting an argument on to Stout that he’s not making is lame.

 

[oaken1]

For the board being mostly in the conservative build and save money camp, they're definitely loose with wasting money. Why pay extra for a JAG? Save the 3-4 mill per year and spend it wisely elsewhere. (I know, I don't have faith they would spend it, but still). Same with extending JC multiple years rather than just year at a time. It doesn't fit the mold people seem to want us to follow.

Question...
You do actually know that there is more to playing OLB than just rushing the passer....right?

 

[cardncubfan]

False choice. He wants them to extend players HE thinks are worthwhile contributors. He obviously doesn’t think Zaven is one of those. Presenting the idea that he speaking out of both sides of his mouth while projecting an argument on to Stout that he’s not making is lame.

Okay?

 

[oaken1]

How many plays last year did we say wow look at that play Collins made?

He did his job but nothing spectacular, no big plays just doing what he's supposed to do. To me that's just another guy

Except if he was just a JAG a lot of those unremarkable boring routine plays would have instead been bigger plays for the offense.
The absolute best players a team can have are guys who make the routine play consistently.
Like many, I would prefer Collins be a better pass rusher... but I also appreciate that while lacking in pass rush he has so far performed every other function of his position very well.
Considering he is relatively new at olb we may still see improvements in his pass rushing. But his contract is a fair deal even if we don't

 

[Cheesebeef]

Okay?

Not sure what’s hard to understand here unless you’re just trying to pick a fight.

 

[Stout]

First you complain about keeping the powder dry, then when they do use it to extend a player they like, you bitch about that too. Which is it? Do you want them to keep the powder dry or do you want them to use it to extend players who they like & feel are contributors?

So you're saying I should just be cool with the team wasting money? It's not like I'm Steve Keim. Also, I was commenting on other posters opinions on spending? But whatever.

Maybe they shouldn't burn money on JAGs (my opinion) or extending older RBs for multiple seasons but actually spend money on the edge room? I would like them to spend money on players I think are worth it without mortgaging the future and not sit on tons of cap space. That should be a very easy concept to understand.

 

[Stout]

False choice. He wants them to extend players HE thinks are worthwhile contributors. He obviously doesn’t think Zaven is one of those. Presenting the idea that he speaking out of both sides of his mouth while projecting an argument on to Stout that he’s not making is lame.

Dang, my strategy of responding as I read is flawed, as I should have just left this post stand as response.

 

[Stout]

Question...
You do actually know that there is more to playing OLB than just rushing the passer....right?

Show me how ZC is above average. I'll wait.

 

[oaken1]

Show me how ZC is above average. I'll wait.

Go watch a game

 

[cardncubfan]

Not sure what’s hard to understand here unless you’re just trying to pick a fight.

Not trying to pick a fight so I'll just drop it. Not worth it.

 

[Stout]

Go watch a game

I guess you couldn't rise to "I know you are but what am I" childishness, eh? LOL

 

[Stout]

Go watch a game

Show me how ZC is above average?

 

[QuebecCard]

I guess you couldn't rise to "I know you are but what am I" childishness, eh? LOL

From someone who offers up the frothing-at-the-mouth childishness of 'fire Monti.' LOL

 

[Krangodnzr]

For the board being mostly in the conservative build and save money camp, they're definitely loose with wasting money. Why pay extra for a JAG?

Because the Cardinals don't think Collins is a JAG? I don't think he's a JAG, I think he's a solid LB who played his first games at edge last year and didn't make the impact we want as a rusher but did everything else better than a "JAG".

Save the 3-4 mill per year and spend it wisely elsewhere. (I know, I don't have faith they would spend it, but still). Same with extending JC multiple years rather than just year at a time. It doesn't fit the mold people seem to want us to follow.

Im just going to LULZ hard at this statement. Which is it @Stout? Keep the powder dry or spend?

I appreciate your perspective overall and I agree that more can be done, but Zaven Collins is a better player than you are portraying.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

At the absolute worst we overpaid ZC by a million or two (like .5% of the cap), and there's decent chance he could prosper with JG/NR's coaching and scheme

Nothing but upside to this signing! Really like it!