Cards sent pick to Pitt with Levi!!

[Mulli]

I don't know what you said at the time... I do know that the Cards are very fortunate not to have the majority of their fan base be the second-guessing conspiracy crafting hand-wringing type that seem to occupy this board...
If you, at the time, claimed SK would suck as a GM, then I taken my hat off to your consistency. I think you're wrong of course (mainly because Smel is in your corner), but at least you, like him are consistent...


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What are you even talking about? The Cardinals are fortunate to have any fans at all.

 

[82CardsGrad]

What are you even talking about? The Cardinals are fortunate to have any fans at all.

Yea... Good thing they have fans like you and Smel to keep them on the straight and narrow though...


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[Mulli]

Yea... Good thing they have fans like you and Smel to keep them on the straight and narrow though...


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I am barely a fan. Go Patriots!

 

[THESMEL]

dudes and dudettes

I think he is a young GM, lets see -nope- can't think of another that has done this - ever! I mean LD was up for huge contract and the Cowboys paid him-

I mean the cap Graves paid for ex steeler busts should have taught Keim something. Porter, McFadden, Gay, ect.. en was the last time we got the better of the Steelers in a deal?

We are 2-2 and I'm grateful - but we lost 9 straight after Levi went down last year! it was not all Levi but damn-

If you didn't have a LT would the Mannings want Levi, Brees, anybody? Well Carson Palmer is going to want him soon enough- I believe.

My biggest gripe is the same with whisenhunt- Blaming the damn players while putting them in position to fail- whole scale changes 50+ new faces in camp after 2010- just like last year-

Repeating the same words - but followed by the same opposite actions- talk is cheap- Our game plan and play callng is flawed- and puts the pressure on the LT- I expect them to actually help Sowell and try to run more and pass less for the new guy-

WHY COULDN"T WE HAVE PLAYED FUNDEMENTALLY SOUND IT THE FIRST PLACE-

Keim is the General Manager he hires and fires and supervises the coaches- Weak supervision in the face of repeating theme was Graves downfall.

I don't know what you said at the time... I do know that the Cards are very fortunate not to have the majority of their fan base be the second-guessing conspiracy crafting hand-wringing type that seem to occupy this board...
If you, at the time, claimed SK would suck as a GM, then I taken my hat off to your consistency. I think you're wrong of course (mainly because Smel is in your corner), but at least you, like him are consistent...


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[82CardsGrad]

I am barely a fan. Go Patriots!

Shut up! I never noticed!!!


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[82CardsGrad]

I think he is a young GM, lets see -nope- can't think of another that has done this - ever! I mean LD was up for huge contract and the Cowboys paid him-

I mean the cap Graves paid for ex steeler busts should have taught Keim something. Porter, McFadden, Gay, ect.. en was the last time we got the better of the Steelers in a deal?

We are 2-2 and I'm grateful - but we lost 9 straight after Levi went down last year! it was not all Levi but damn-

If you didn't have a LT would the Mannings want Levi, Brees, anybody? Well Carson Palmer is going to want him soon enough- I believe.

My biggest gripe is the same with whisenhunt- Blaming the damn players while putting them in position to fail- whole scale changes 50+ new faces in camp after 2010- just like last year-

Repeating the same words - but followed by the same opposite actions- talk is cheap- Our game plan and play callng is flawed- and puts the pressure on the LT- I expect them to actually help Sowell and try to run more and pass less for the new guy-

WHY COULDN"T WE HAVE PLAYED FUNDEMENTALLY SOUND IT THE FIRST PLACE-

Keim is the General Manager he hires and fires and supervises the coaches- Weak supervision in the face of repeating theme was Graves downfall.

Not that there is ever a good time to tackle your posts... but man, it's definitely too early to take a stab at it now...



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[Cardinals.Ken]

I am barely a fan. Go Patriots!

Buttface

 

[SECTION 11]

Where the hell do you come off with this shyte? "SK is a moron?" Seriously?? Based upon what? The guy has been in the job less than a season, and somehow you believe he is a moron?? Prior to getting the job and while Graves was on the seat, everyone was pushing for Keim. What has he done to demonstrate he is a moron??
I swear I don't know why I spend time on this board... I'm amazed that, 4 games into their first season together, "fans" are attempting to create a zoo out of the management of the team.
Gotta believe there is some serious PWI going on in this thread...


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Relax seriously. Not everyone wanted SK, and yes he's a very smart man.

And BA is probably pissed at him.

 

[JeffGollin]

So, no more speculation about the Cardinals on a this message board. Got it.

Speculation is cool - so long as you don't pawn it off as fact. Uncool is hollering that the sky is definitely falling because you "suspect" (but don't really know) that something may be going on.

 

[SECTION 11]

What never works out well is a coach having too much power in the GM office or outright owning that role.

A strong GM is a good model.

I wondered a couple of weeks ago if BA was going to get knocked down a peg or two for having too much power.

82: This is 100% pure speculation on my part. Total and complete guesswork based on a guy feeling. Like every other post. It is most likely wrong.

 

[D-Dogg]

He sure makes some pretty ignorant statements!

Well, the system works. Max Hall is going to be awesome, because Coach Whis said so.


All coaches make ignorant statements. I actually trust BA when he speaks more than most coaches. His coachspeak to truth ratio seems to be pretty low. That also means he puts his foot squarely in his mouth, a lot.

:3amigos:

 

[Cheesebeef]

I swear I don't know why I spend time on this board... I'm amazed that, 4 games into their first season together, "fans" are attempting to create a zoo out of the management of the team.

wow...so now, you're questioning people's fandom because they think the GM and Coach might not be on the same page? that's obnoxious.

 

[TJ]

Relax seriously. Not everyone wanted SK, and yes he's a very smart man.

And BA is probably pissed at him.

"Pissed" wasn't the word I was thinking about. There's really No evidence that there's a rift between coach and GM. Losing Levi isn't like losing an impact player, and I think BA knows that. Remember, at the beginning of the season, when asked about why Levi was starting, the response from BA was, "no one beat him out," not much of a ringing endorsement (and the "elite" thing was more of a motivation tactic than anything, IMO).

 

[D-Dogg]

I wondered a couple of weeks ago if BA was going to get knocked down a peg or two for having too much power.

82: This is 100% pure speculation on my part. Total and complete guesswork based on a guy feeling. Like every other post. It is most likely wrong.

I don't doubt there is a bit of this going on, but I don't think it is as blatant as some want it to be. I think he's mildly annoyed by the process, but I think he's just as annoyed that Levi didn't take to the coaching up, was getting his QB killed and had not improved in simple things like taking advantage of the help when it came.

And I think it is good to have BA come down a peg, but not a lot more than that. It is good to have your head coach have input into the personnel but that's where it should stop. GraveWhis was too tightly joined at the hip, so when it came to mistakes, both got the blame. Right now the BASK team is a little too close IMO.

The GM should be able to both buy off on and overrule players a coach likes/wants. And when that happens, the coach needs to not poke their lip out and just roll with what they have (said like BA would).

 

[SECTION 11]

It's odd that Levi's work ethic is fair game (all of a sudden, in classic post-trade/cut style), but SK's decisions are off limits.

 

[kerouac9]

"Pissed" wasn't the word I was thinking about. There's really No evidence that there's a rift between coach and GM. Losing Levi isn't like losing an impact player, and I think BA knows that. Remember, at the beginning of the season, when asked about why Levi was starting, the response from BA was, "no one beat him out," not much of a ringing endorsement (and the "elite" thing was more of a motivation tactic than anything, IMO).

Really? None?

Exhibit A: Ryan Williams remaining on the roster, but inactive every single week.

Exhibit B: Bruce Arians agitating for Levi Brown since at least Week 1 (when the discussion of getting rid of Levi Brown began).

Exhibit C: Rob Housler's continuing lack of involvement in the offense. Steve Keim believes that he's a superstar.

Exhibit D: Arians refusing to say that Levi Brown would be on the bench in Week 5 had he not been traded.

It's hardly a compelling case, but the evidence is there. I don't expect Bruce Arians to shank Keim at midfield right now.

 

[D-Dogg]

Really? None?

Exhibit A: Ryan Williams remaining on the roster, but inactive every single week.

Don't disagree, but there were trade rumors for RW at the end of the preseason, and those had to have been floated by Keim to be picked up.

Exhibit B: Bruce Arians agitating for Levi Brown since at least Week 1 (when the discussion of getting rid of Levi Brown began).

It is not out of bounds to say that he would need to do that to keep Levi's trade value high. Not that I agree with that, but it is also a logical assumption.

Exhibit C: Rob Housler's continuing lack of involvement in the offense. Steve Keim believes that he's a superstar.

This one I disagree with; BA has talked him up a bunch too. He seems to see something in him. I wish whatever people see in him would show up in him.

Exhibit D: Arians refusing to say that Levi Brown would be on the bench in Week 5 had he not been traded.

That is probably the biggest point in the rift argument.

It's hardly a compelling case, but the evidence is there. I don't expect Bruce Arians to shank Keim at midfield right now.

LOL.

 

[D-Dogg]

It's odd that Levi's work ethic is fair game (all of a sudden, in classic post-trade/cut style), but SK's decisions are off limits.

SK's decisions are not off limits. Isolating his decisions is the tough part. He's going to miss and hit as a scout, because that's the nature of the game. Even the things we think we know (that he wanted AP, not Levi) we don't really know. We just get the spin that came out of the cards over time.

He's got a quarter of a season under his belt as a GM, so it's tough to evaluate.

If he fails to build a winner, he will get his comeuppance. If he brings in a slew of QUALITY talent, and BA can't win with them, BA will get his.

Right now, IMO, it's way to early to see which way this train is heading. I like the early returns, but there's a lot to dislike in there as well.

 

[TJ]

"Rift" would imply that there's a significant disconnect between the two (and a lack of mutual respect). I don't see it. I see evidence of disagreements in personnel moves (what team has 100% agreement amongst coach and GM), but nothing that indicates a falling out at this point, which many here are inferring.

 

[GuernseyCard]

"Rift" would imply that there's a significant disconnect between the two (and a lack of mutual respect). I don't see it. I see evidence of disagreements in personnel moves (what team has 100% agreement amongst coach and GM), but nothing that indicates a falling out at this point, which many here are inferring.

It was in the end "a Cardinals decision", as Arians likes to say.

 

[82CardsGrad]

What team has consistent, unanimous agreement regarding personnel between the GM and Head Coach? And unless any of you have been in meetings or on the sidelines, please save us your "opinion" on that matter...

So, in the case of Levi, some here are attempting to use this situation as what? A case that Keim is a moron? A fool? Incompetent?? If so - prove it... If you can after just 4 games into his initial season as a GM...
Or, are you trying to develop a story of a rift between Keim and Ariens?? Regardless of K9's Hail Mary's, there is zero evidence that there are problems between Keim and BA. And if you think you know better - shoot me a PM with the winning power ball #'s tonight!

There was no single player who was as consistently maligned over the years on this board as Levi Brown. It's beyond ironic that his inevitable departure has caused fans to instantly suffer some type of bizzare psychosis...

For what it's worth, I believe Keim would have loved to have dumped Levi before the season started. I believe Levi is the antithesis of the kind of player Keim wants on his team. A talented/gifted player who rarely gave full effort, and the results were evidence of such (please Smel spare me your rants about how "it's the coaching, not the player.").
I believe Ariens saw enough potential in Levi to garner his faith and his desire to try to work with him. Most coaches who believe in their own abilities, would see the talent and potential in Levi and think the same.
In the end, Ariens was forced to face the reality the rest of the football world has known all along, Levi sucks and his flaws are not repairable.

We have a coach and a GM who are widely respected throughout the league and who desperately want to win. And yet - some would prefer to take shots at them, attempt to create ridiculous stories of a rift between the two, and use the ouster of Levi Brown of all people - as evidence that they both are clueless and they don't like one another... All after they have coached/managed a whopping 4 games in the NFL. Wow...



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[TJ]

What team has consistent, unanimous agreement regarding personnel between the GM and Head Coach? And unless any of have been in meetings or on the sidelines, please save us your "opinion" on that matter...

So, in the case of Levi, some here are attempting to use this situation as what? A case that Keim is a moron? A fool? Incompetent?? If so - prove it... If you can after just 4 games into his initial season as a GM...
Or, are you trying to develop a story of a rift between Keim and Ariens?? Regardless of K9's Hail Mary's, there is zero evidence that there are problems between Keim and BA. And if you think you know better - shoot me a PM with the winning power ball #'s tonight!

There was no single player who was as consistently maligned over the years on this board as Levi Brown. It's beyond ironic that his inevitable departure has caused fans to instantly suffer some type of bizzare psychosis...

For what it's worth, I believe Keim would have loved to have dumped Levi before the season started. I believe Levi is the antithesis of the kind of player Keim wants on his team. A talented/gifted player who rarely gave full effort, and the results were evidence of such (please Smel spare me your rants about how "it's the coaching, not the player.").
I believe Ariens saw enough potential in Levi to garner his faith and his desire to try to work with him. Most coaches who believe in their own abilities, would see the talent and potential in Levi and think the same.
In the end, Ariens was forced to face the reality the rest of the football world has known all along, Levi sucks and his flaws are not repairable.

We have a coach and a GM who are widely respected throughout the league and who desperately want to win. And yet - some would prefer to take shots at them, attempt to create ridiculous stories of a rift between the two, and use the ouster of Levi Brown of all people - as evidence that they both are clueless and they don't like one another... All after they have coached/managed a whopping 4 games in the NFL. Wow...



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Bingo

 

[Mainstreet]

What team has consistent, unanimous agreement regarding personnel between the GM and Head Coach? And unless any of you have been in meetings or on the sidelines, please save us your "opinion" on that matter...

So, in the case of Levi, some here are attempting to use this situation as what? A case that Keim is a moron? A fool? Incompetent?? If so - prove it... If you can after just 4 games into his initial season as a GM...
Or, are you trying to develop a story of a rift between Keim and Ariens?? Regardless of K9's Hail Mary's, there is zero evidence that there are problems between Keim and BA. And if you think you know better - shoot me a PM with the winning power ball #'s tonight!

There was no single player who was as consistently maligned over the years on this board as Levi Brown. It's beyond ironic that his inevitable departure has caused fans to instantly suffer some type of bizzare psychosis...

For what it's worth, I believe Keim would have loved to have dumped Levi before the season started. I believe Levi is the antithesis of the kind of player Keim wants on his team. A talented/gifted player who rarely gave full effort, and the results were evidence of such (please Smel spare me your rants about how "it's the coaching, not the player.").
I believe Ariens saw enough potential in Levi to garner his faith and his desire to try to work with him. Most coaches who believe in their own abilities, would see the talent and potential in Levi and think the same.
In the end, Ariens was forced to face the reality the rest of the football world has known all along, Levi sucks and his flaws are not repairable.

We have a coach and a GM who are widely respected throughout the league and who desperately want to win. And yet - some would prefer to take shots at them, attempt to create ridiculous stories of a rift between the two, and use the ouster of Levi Brown of all people - as evidence that they both are clueless and they don't like one another... All after they have coached/managed a whopping 4 games in the NFL. Wow...

On this I agree with TJ. Nice post.

 

[JeffGollin]

How I see it.

1. Going back nearly to Coryell, the Cards traditionally have not made the OL a priority.

2. For whatever the reason, Levi underperformed.

3. SK doesn't deserve an automatic free pass. (He, no doubt, has made his share of mistakes - he's human).

4. But he doesn't deserve the pile of scorn being heaped on him from some fans before we've even played 5 regular season games.

5. There's an old saying - if you're not making any mistakes, you're not doing anything."

6. Instead of judging Steve (one way or the other) prematurely, give the dude a chance to pull the trigger and to see how his various decisions pan out. If he deserves it, there will be plenty of time to rip him a new belly button later in the season or when it's over.

 

[GuernseyCard]

What team has consistent, unanimous agreement regarding personnel between the GM and Head Coach? And unless any of you have been in meetings or on the sidelines, please save us your "opinion" on that matter...

So, in the case of Levi, some here are attempting to use this situation as what? A case that Keim is a moron? A fool? Incompetent?? If so - prove it... If you can after just 4 games into his initial season as a GM...
Or, are you trying to develop a story of a rift between Keim and Ariens?? Regardless of K9's Hail Mary's, there is zero evidence that there are problems between Keim and BA. And if you think you know better - shoot me a PM with the winning power ball #'s tonight!

There was no single player who was as consistently maligned over the years on this board as Levi Brown. It's beyond ironic that his inevitable departure has caused fans to instantly suffer some type of bizzare psychosis...

For what it's worth, I believe Keim would have loved to have dumped Levi before the season started. I believe Levi is the antithesis of the kind of player Keim wants on his team. A talented/gifted player who rarely gave full effort, and the results were evidence of such (please Smel spare me your rants about how "it's the coaching, not the player.").
I believe Ariens saw enough potential in Levi to garner his faith and his desire to try to work with him. Most coaches who believe in their own abilities, would see the talent and potential in Levi and think the same.
In the end, Ariens was forced to face the reality the rest of the football world has known all along, Levi sucks and his flaws are not repairable.

We have a coach and a GM who are widely respected throughout the league and who desperately want to win. And yet - some would prefer to take shots at them, attempt to create ridiculous stories of a rift between the two, and use the ouster of Levi Brown of all people - as evidence that they both are clueless and they don't like one another... All after they have coached/managed a whopping 4 games in the NFL. Wow...



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Plus ca change...