Do Suns have one of the least brightest present/future in the West?

[sunsfan88]

Watching the playoffs and hearing about the young players on other teams with so much potential made me think...do we have one of the least brightest future/present out of every team in the NBA?

First off, here are all the teams who are obviously better than Phoenix in the present:

- Spurs- Kawhi Leonard is a Finals MVP and an up and coming superstar. Oh and he's barely 23 and already the best defender in the NBA by far. Plus old big 3 still getting it done.

- Clippers- CP3's getting older but still 30 and Blake is only 26. Both are far better players than anyone on Suns.

- Grizzlies - This is pretty easy. Gasol/Conley. end of story.

- Warriors - Obvious. Steph Curry > Suns roster

- Rockets - Again obvious. James Harden > Suns roster

- Mavericks - Dirk is still a beast and Rick Carslie continues to be the magician he is. Monta Ellis seems to have revived his career in Dallas and despite being in the NBA for what seems like a while, he's only 29.

- Pelicans - Back in 2010, I never would have thought that New Orleans would become good before Phoenix would. Amazing how things have changed. Obvious one again, Davis > Suns.

Now out of all the non playoff teams, lets look at teams which imo have brighter futures:

- Utah - Gobert alone is a better prospect than Suns have and Hood and Favors are both very promising as well. They also have the 5th overall pick Exum who has showed signs of greatness defensively and has ton of potential offensively obviously.

- Minnesota - Wiggins alone gives them the leg up. Kid is gonna be a superstar and nobody's gonna stop him. I was one of those who thought he was all hype in high school and college but he's made me eat my words. LaVine and Mohammad are also looking very promising and if Minnesota blows it up and gets assets for Rubio/Pekovic, their in even better shape for the future.

- Thunder - Obvious.

- Lakers - Randle + cap space + top 5 prospect from the draft this season. Plus to FAs, they have the appeal of being Los Angeles and Kobe's contract expiring/retiring in a year. 22 year old Clarkson also looks promising.

- Kings - There's a lot of dysfunction in the FO and ownership. Things seems to have gotten better since the hiring of Karl but regardless, 24 year old Cousins is still the best C in the NBA and is lot better than anyone on the Suns. They also have a nice top 8-10 pick in this draft.

That leaves Phoenix, and Denver. Nuggets are super high on 20 year old Nurkic and believe him to the next big thing but I'm not sure he's much better than Len.

Its amazing, if you asked me after last season which team has most promising future among non playoff teams in the entire NBA, I would have said Phoenix easily. And now looking at these other rosters, and how our season's gone, its saddening. Eric Bledsoe is probably's our best player and he doesn't seem to have anywhere near the ceiling that the guys on this list has and unlikely to improve all that much from where he is now. Knight is such a wildcard, even when he did good in Milwaukee most of their fans were beyond stoked to see him traded. His time in Phoenix was filed with injuries and didn't look that great when healthy. Len is probably my most favorite player on the Suns (that's more telling of the Suns roster than Len himself but I do like Len) but he seems to have a hard time staying healthy whether its ankle or nose or finder or whatever body part of his. Warren and Goodwin are the only other guys that we can be hopeful about.

We have a Cavs 1st round pick which won't be worth anything at all and then we have the Heat 2017 pick which is iirc top 7 or top 8 protected and chances are Miami will still make the playoffs then since they play in the East assuming Bosh, Dragic and Whiteside stay healthy. That 2021 unprotected pick might have great value but its 5 years down the stretch and won't have that good of value until we get lot closer to 2021.

In the meantime we continue to stay mediocre by missing playoffs and landing the #13 or #14 pick for the 5th time in the last 7 years.

 

[Zobaczcie suki]

No, I don't believe that everyone in the West (save Denver) has a brighter future than the Suns. Your "sky is falling" argument goes overboard, though I agree we have a tough road ahead.

And you think Gobert is better than Len? I disagree there. as well.

 

[Cheesebeef]

No, I don't believe that everyone in the West (save Denver) has a brighter future than the Suns. Your "sky is falling" argument goes overboard, though I agree we have a tough road ahead.

And you think Gobert is better than Len? I disagree there. as well.

Curious how you think Len is better then Gobert. Len has shown flashes and strung a couple good weeks together at some point, but Gobert was solid all season and flat out dominant inside on defense the last 1/3 of the season. Not to mention, he doesn't seem as injury prone.

 

[sunsfan88]

Curious how you think Len is better then Gobert. Len has shown flashes and strung a couple good weeks together at some point, but Gobert was solid all season and flat out dominant inside on defense the last 1/3 of the season. Not to mention, he doesn't seem as injury prone.

And that's when he finally got the starting job once Utah traded Kanter. Once Gobert started getting starting minutes, he's been flat out balling. I've read that he's even a DPOY candidate despite playing low minutes for the season as a whole.

 

[sunsfan88]

No, I don't believe that everyone in the West (save Denver) has a brighter future than the Suns. Your "sky is falling" argument goes overboard, though I agree we have a tough road ahead.

And you think Gobert is better than Len? I disagree there. as well.

Can you explain why? Do we have a star player or a potential star player that's same caliber as the other guys I listed in the OP? LAL is the only other team that I listed which doesn't have a star player or a potential star player yet.

 

[Zobaczcie suki]

Curious how you think Len is better then Gobert. Len has shown flashes and strung a couple good weeks together at some point, but Gobert was solid all season and flat out dominant inside on defense the last 1/3 of the season. Not to mention, he doesn't seem as injury prone.

I am sure this is somewhat subjective on my part, but the last Suns game against Utah is stuck in my mind. Gobert plays against the hapless Suns, with Len out, that have virtually no inside presence. He is able to gobble up 15 boards, but only scores 5 points and matches that with 5 turnovers in 38 minutes. Our starting "center", Brandon Wright, puts up 14 points to go with 4 blocks. So I know Gobert has a lot of upside, but he doesn't seem as great to me as those who rave about him here do.

So this is basically Len's first real year of playing at the pro level. He had his ups and downs, but showed a lot of toughness playing through injuries, except for the broken nose that ended his season. His numbers aren't too shabby for what was essentially his "rookie" year, 6.3 points, 6.6 rebounds and 1.5 blocks and 22 minutes a game. Len is a much better free throw shooter as well.

Len just seems a lot more aggressive on the offensive end, I even saw him dribble the ball most of the length of the court for dunks a couple of times. He's got moxy and a bit of an edge to him, which I think is super valuable playing in the NBA. I know Gobert has a bright future, but I will take Len any day over the frenchman.

 

[Zobaczcie suki]

Can you explain why? Do we have a star player or a potential star player that's same caliber as the other guys I listed in the OP? LAL is the only other team that I listed which doesn't have a star player or a potential star player yet.

Well, I think your analysis is great on paper. You rate highly guys that went high in the draft that haven't proven anything yet, like Exum. And you put virtually every team over the Suns as part of the stream of pessimism that has overrun this "sky is falling" board that we have now. It overlooks how we were in playoff position before the trade, were left in a vulnerable position size-wise after that, and then were stung by 2 big injuries. But for those injuries, our season would have ended a lot better.

Until they prove it on the floor, I am just not going to put teams like Utah Minnesota and Sacramento ahead of the Suns, sorry. Sacramento is the closest, but a couple of their wins over us this year were of the somewhat lucky 2 point margin variety. And I am not going to base anything on how the Suns performed after Knight and Len went down for the rest of the season.

 

[BC867]

I know Gobert has a bright future, but I will take Len any day over the frenchman.

How I wish that were the only consideration. But there are two others.

Any day . . . except when he can't stay out of foul trouble, which was just about every (game)day.

And any season when he is relatively injury free.

And, yes, there is a third factor. Any day when Hornacek doesn't keep his power Center on the bench in the 4th quarter while he moves everybody up one position starting at Point Guard.

 

[Zobaczcie suki]

How I wish that were the only consideration. But there are two others.

Any day . . . except when he can't stay out of foul trouble, which was just about every (game)day.

And any season when he is relatively injury free.

And, yes, there is a third factor. Any day when Hornacek doesn't keep his power Center on the bench in the 4th quarter while he moves everybody up one position starting at Point Guard.

That's cool, if you don't want Len, we still have Brandan Wright who outperformed Gobert last game.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That's cool, if you don't want Len, we still have Brandan Wright who outperformed Gobert last game.

One game doesn't mean squat.

If this was basically Len's first season, can't you say the exact same thing about Gobert who got almost no time last year, but once he got in, dominated the boards and patrolled the paint and stayed healthy?

 

[SirStefan32]

After the all-star break, Gobert averaged 11 points and 13.4 rebounds per game, along with 2.6 blocks, just under two assists per game. He also shot 63% from the field, turned the ball over less than two times per game, and averaged barely over two fouls per game in almost 35 minutes per game. Len is not in the same proverbial league right now.
If you want to argue that Len may become a more rounded player assuming he stays healthy, that's fine, but Len vs. Gobert right now is not even close. It's just another example of the Suns fan on this board overrating the Suns' players.

 

[sunsfan88]

Well, I think your analysis is great on paper. You rate highly guys that went high in the draft that haven't proven anything yet, like Exum. And you put virtually every team over the Suns as part of the stream of pessimism that has overrun this "sky is falling" board that we have now. It overlooks how we were in playoff position before the trade, were left in a vulnerable position size-wise after that, and then were stung by 2 big injuries. But for those injuries, our season would have ended a lot better.

Until they prove it on the floor, I am just not going to put teams like Utah Minnesota and Sacramento ahead of the Suns, sorry. Sacramento is the closest, but a couple of their wins over us this year were of the somewhat lucky 2 point margin variety. And I am not going to base anything on how the Suns performed after Knight and Len went down for the rest of the season.

I'll agree with you here, my entire OP is based on projection, there's no doubt. Its all the "on paper" stuff and we all know "on paper" doesn't always work out that way.

Exum struggled offensively but he's already good defensively. Regardless, you can take Exum out of the equation he isn't even the reason I would put Utah ahead of us, its Gobert who is a rising star. We don't have that, and no Len isn't better than Gobert yet. Len needs to show durability and staying out of foul ability before he's at that level.

 

[sunsfan88]

One game doesn't mean squat.

If this was basically Len's first season, can't you say the exact same thing about Gobert who got almost no time last year, but once he got in, dominated the boards and patrolled the paint and stayed healthy?

After the all-star break, Gobert averaged 11 points and 13.4 rebounds per game, along with 2.6 rebounds, just under two assists per game. He also shot 63% from the field, turned the ball over less than two times per game, and averaged barely over two fouls per game in almost 35 minutes per game. Len is not in the same proverbial league right now.
If you want to argue that Len may become a more rounded player assuming he stays healthy, that's fine, but Len vs. Gobert right now is not even close. It's just another example of the Suns fan on this board overrating the Suns' players.

Seriously, the man is just an absolute terror

HC Brad Stevens before the game:

Their defense has been outstanding. And it's to be expected somewhat when (Rudy) Gobert's minutes go up because he's an absolute force on that end of the floor, and he's becoming really good on the other end of the floor.

Brad Stevens after the game:

The number one thing I walk out of here with is, damn, their defense is good," Stevens said. "Like, that’s an outstanding defense, and it’s got the potential to be an outstanding defense for a long time, with that length.

Dwight Howard:

"That was the toughest (game I've played) this season. That guy Gobert. Wow, insane. He just didn't let up. Like a shadow. Honestly, I'm glad it's over and we move on to the next one"

Roy Hibbert:

''Gobert is so athletic. He is so much better than I was my second year,''

Duncan after Jazz held the Spurs to their season low in points:

"He affects the game a lot. He is a rim-protector and a shot-blocker and he cleans up a lot of people's mistakes. He has been great for them and this was another good game. He's improving."

HC Scott Brooks:

"Gobert was a machine. Serge said in the locker room that he couldn't believe some of the blocks that kid made...and that's coming from the best in the league at it. He's a wall inside."

HC Stan Van Gundy

"He's really a great defender. That guy is quick, he's long as hell, he comes and contests every shot."

Read more: http://hoopshype.com/social/buzz/player ... z3UWD2NBEy

Have other players and coaches been raving about Alex Len the same way? I think not.

I still like Len but at this point he's still unreliable to stay on the court and even on the court, him and Gobert are just not even close.

 

[Zobaczcie suki]

Like I said, this is somewhat subjective on my part. I'll take Len. He's got an aggressive mindset while I see Gobert as more passive by comparison. We'll see how this plays out next year.

 

[Zobaczcie suki]

One game doesn't mean squat.

If this was basically Len's first season, can't you say the exact same thing about Gobert who got almost no time last year, but once he got in, dominated the boards and patrolled the paint and stayed healthy?

Not exactly. Gobert played in 45 games last year, 9 minutes a game. Len only played in 3 if I remember correctly. So its not surprising that Gobert is a bit ahead of Len development wise.

 

[Zobaczcie suki]

Seriously, the man is just an absolute terror

HC Brad Stevens before the game:



Brad Stevens after the game:



Dwight Howard:



Roy Hibbert:



Duncan after Jazz held the Spurs to their season low in points:



HC Scott Brooks:



HC Stan Van Gundy



Have other players and coaches been raving about Alex Len the same way? I think not.

I still like Len but at this point he's still unreliable to stay on the court and even on the court, him and Gobert are just not even close.

We'll have to check in on that once Len has logged as many games as Gobert.

And as far as being "injury prone", the broken nose thing is a bit of a fluke. My big concern with Len was his feet, and they seemed to have held up fine.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Not exactly. Gobert played in 45 games last year, 9 minutes a game. Len only played in 3 if I remember correctly. So its not surprising that Gobert is a bit ahead of Len development wise.

dude... Len played 42 games last year, averaging 8 minutes per.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/5156/

and he's not just a bit ahead. Someone averaging 9/10/2.3 is A LOT ahead of a guy averaging 6/7/1.5.

and for all Len's "agressiveness" over Gobert, Gobert shoots 12% higher and still scores more points... at the exact same level of development.

 

[Cheesebeef]

We'll have to check in on that once Len has logged as many games as Gobert.

he has.

And as far as being "injury prone", the broken nose thing is a bit of a fluke. My big concern with Len was his feet, and they seemed to have held up fine.

held up fine? didn't he miss the first couple months of his rookie season because of his feet... and didn't he miss like three weeks this year because of his feet?

 

[sunsfan88]

We'll have to check in on that once Len has logged as many games as Gobert.

And as far as being "injury prone", the broken nose thing is a bit of a fluke. My big concern with Len was his feet, and they seemed to have held up fine.

Len has logged only 16 fewer games than Gobert in his career. Gobert is simply a whole different animal, he will likely get some votes for DPOY this season and he will definitely be a candidate for DPOY next season.

The stuff in this article is almost unheard of:

http://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/236503/The-Emergence-Of-Rudy-Gobert

As for Len, as much as I love the guy, I'm not sure he's a candidate to even finish the season healthy next year.

 

[Zobaczcie suki]

he has.



held up fine? didn't he miss the first couple months of his rookie season because of his feet... and didn't he miss like three weeks this year because of his feet?

He missed his whole rookie year, so this was the year where we were waiting to see how his feet held up. As far as I know, he had a couple of sprained ankles and a broken nose this year. If he missed time this year due to his feet, that's news to me.

 

[az jam]

The bottom line for me, per this thread, is that the Suns really are a mediocre team and not much fun to watch. IMO there needs to be a major shake up and it probably begins with the Morris twins but I'm not sure what we could get for either of them. Its going to be an interesting off-season.

 

[Cheesebeef]

He missed his whole rookie year, so this was the year where we were waiting to see how his feet held up. As far as I know, he had a couple of sprained ankles and a broken nose this year. If he missed time this year due to his feet, that's news to me.

Zero, are you just willfully ignoring that Len played 42 games and averaged 8 minutes his rookie year just like Gobert's 45 games and 9 minutes?

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I like Len and think he'll end up being a decent player but even if he remains healthy (big if) not like he's going to be an All Star or anywhere close to it. Maybe a better version of Robin Lopez.

This organization is a mess.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think the Suns need to figure out which PG they want to keep and trade the other if the value is there. Then find out if Goodwin can play SG, look towards Bogdan Bogdanovic and maybe keep Green to play that position. Adding another shooter on the cheap would help. Maybe Granger fills that role. Also there is Bullock.

Of course the Suns would need to add a couple of low salary PGs depth. In the back of my mind I think the Suns will be looking for a combo guard because of their fascination with Jerel McNeal. Maybe Goodwin fills this need as well.

I'm alright with Warren, Tucker and Marcus at SF.

The area of focus for me and money spent should be depth at center and PF. I think Markieff is sufficient at PF, likewise with Len at center. However, the Suns minimally should add a of couple players that can backup Len and Markieff that can produce. This, while still keeping Wright. The draft, FA and trades need to help fill this void.

 

[Zobaczcie suki]

Zero, are you just willfully ignoring that Len played 42 games and averaged 8 minutes his rookie year just like Gobert's 45 games and 9 minutes?

Last year was Len's first year. When I looked it up yesterday, it looked like he played 3 games. He was out for the year basically due to injury. So I think you and I are talking past each other here.

I just double checked it. Len played 3 games his rookie year and averaged 8.6 minutes per game.
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/2596107/alex-len