Marion

[boisesuns]

If KG is there, you've got to take him.

 

[JS22]

Unbelievable that you guys are still talking about trading Marion, right in the middle of the playoffs, even after his 32 pt. 19 reb, Cassel shut down performance last night.

Don't be hatin', get on board the Marion bandwagon

lol.

 

[Maximus]

I've been amazed at the Marion hostility, considering all of the elements he brings to this team. I'm even more amazed that fans think that this hostility is what is driving him. Every season, this board is full of trade Marion proposals and the team never trades him. Pretty much any player on this team can be compared to a handful of other players. But, nobody who rebounds like Marion has Marion's combination of speed, versatility and scoring ability. The guy can honestly be put anywhere on the court and can be an asset defensively. He's an anomaly, and the fact that fans are so quick to want to trade him just baffles me. He, Nash, and Dantoni ARE what make the Suns unique, and I think Marion is right to believe he deserves more respect on his defensive and offensive abilities.

One thing that I think hurts the Suns and Marion in the playoffs is that in the regular season, teams get used to half-court basketball that most teams play, and then when they hit the Suns they get run over by them because it's one game and you can't prepare for it. Playoffs come around and coaches like Phil Jackson have 7 games to figure out how to stop Nash and Marion and they throw some stuff at them that occasionally causes them to lay an egg. Big deal, it happens to Nash, it happens to Kobe, it happens to Shaq, it happens to a lot of players. It's just as much Dantoni's responsibility to put his players in a position to thrive, as he did last night by putting Marion on Cassell.

Marion's our Herb Sendek...completely under-appreciated, until he is replaced by someone that proves how valuable he was.

Maximus

 

[BC867]

I appreciate how Shawn has played larger than his size, his 20-10 stats, and how he's done a great job of guarding everyone from Point Guards to Centers.

But two points:

-- He's brought on this negative publicity himself. Setting himself up as a superstar, a team leader, a first-team NBA star, etc. Then not living up to it in the post-season.

Shawn's personality is not up to it, and he is a role player. He's not a 1-on-1 player on offense or a go-to guy either.

Scottie Pippin was nothing more than average when he and Michael were no longer together.

-- With Amare returning next year, and the emergence of Boris Diaw, it's going to be too crowded for The Matrix to be anything more than a supporting player. And if it means that we can then afford Tim Thomas, we'll be a stronger team (especially in the playoffs) for it.

 

[devilalum]

The most amazing thing about Marion's performance last night was the type of game he did it in.
I've heard a lot of people say that Marion is most effective in high speed barn burners and less effective in games like last night.
He rebounded, played D and basically did all the ugly stuff you need someone to step up and do to win a game like that one.

It also helped that he wasn't kiling himself trying to guard Brand the whole game.

 

[Gaddabout]

-- With Amare returning next year, and the emergence of Boris Diaw, it's going to be too crowded for The Matrix to be anything more than a supporting player. And if it means that we can then afford Tim Thomas, we'll be a stronger team (especially in the playoffs) for it.

How do you move Marion's salary without taking an equal salary in return while creating cap room for Thomas?

 

[elindholm]

How do you move Marion's salary without taking an equal salary in return while creating cap room for Thomas?

Theoretically, the Suns could trade Marion to a team that's way under the cap, but I wouldn't be in favor of that.

 

[Joe Mama]

Scottie Pippin was nothing more than average when he and Michael were no longer together.

I disagree. Pippen was still a good player, and it's not really fair to say that anyhow. Pippen was past his prime when Jordan finally retired for good. However, in the one complete season when Jordan was retired (played baseball) Scottie Pippen was one of the top three players in the NBA.

I like Shawn Marion, but he's nowhere near the player's Scottie Pippen was in his prime. Pippen was better at everything except rebounding.

Joe

 

[Goldfield]

Marion, Barbosa, ATL #1, Phx #1

For

Garnett

Get it done in the offseason fellas.

I would do that in a heart beat....

I actully think Miny would consider that offer. But we would have to move KT's contract to do it.

I could see a trade of Marion/KT/James Jones/ 2 first round picks for Garnett

Garnett, Amare, Diaw, Bell, Nash

Barbosa subbing for both Nash & Bell. And Bell would move over to SF When ever any of the three bigs sit.

That team would be fast, tall, would rebound, play d, pass & score...

That team would win championships

 

[Nasser22]

That is giving up way, way, way too much in my opinion. Not worth it. You need to take away a player and a pick away from that offer.

 

[George O'Brien]

I'm not sure why Marion has so much trouble finishing off the dribble in the half court, but it is probably the only part of his game that is seriously subpar (although he is not where he should be from the outside.) I have a concern that Marion is still not comfortable with contact going to the basket off the dribble. I think it is mental, but it keeps him from getting to the ultra elite level.

Trade Marion for KG? IMHO, this sounds like a fan trade rather than a serious proposal.

 

[elindholm]

Trade Marion for KG? IMHO, this sounds like a fan trade rather than a serious proposal.

What is that supposed to mean? NBA general managers don't participate on this board, so every single hypothetical trade that is ever discussed is a "fan trade."

Several posters have provided abundant reasoning for why the proposed trade might be realistic, and you choose to disregard it without saying why. Instead, you chime in every week or so with a drive-by dismissal, then run away again. So I challenge you again to answer the following questions:

1. Why is Minnesota certain to hang onto Garnett this summer, when it's obvious their franchise is going nowhere and he's miserable?

2. Who is going to pony up a better offer than Marion, Barbosa, and the two Joe Johnson picks?

 

[George O'Brien]

Trade Marion for KG? IMHO, this sounds like a fan trade rather than a serious proposal.

What is that supposed to mean? NBA general managers don't participate on this board, so every single hypothetical trade that is ever discussed is a "fan trade."

Several posters have provided abundant reasoning for why the proposed trade might be realistic, and you choose to disregard it without saying why. Instead, you chime in every week or so with a drive-by dismissal, then run away again. So I challenge you again to answer the following questions:

1. Why is Minnesota certain to hang onto Garnett this summer, when it's obvious their franchise is going nowhere and he's miserable?

2. Who is going to pony up a better offer than Marion, Barbosa, and the two Joe Johnson picks?

I've said why. The Wolves can get a lot more for KG than what the Suns are reasonably going to offer because the Suns can't offer a big nor a dominate one on offensive player. Trading an elite big for anything less than Kobe is not a great way to keep your job. Doing it within the same conference is even more unusual.

My other concern is that I am not convinced the Hawks 2007 pick is worth as much as this proposal rquires. While I expect the Hawks to do badly, they are playing a terrible conference and could even make the playoffs without being a good team. The Suns experience with the Bulls pick is a case in point.

The only scenrio I can see where it might happen would be if KG effectively insisted on going to the Suns.

 

[elindholm]

So are you ready for a signature bet?

If Garnett is not traded this summer, there is no bet.

If Garnett is traded for a more attractive package than the board proposal, you win.

If Garnett is traded for a less attractive package than the board proposal (or, miraculously, for the board proposal itself), I win.

You can name the terms.

 

[asudevil83]

any trade for Garnett is going to involve some SERIOUS salary shedding. Marion/Kurt/Barbosa would most likely be shipped out, giving us the look of a revolving door team (much like Dallas).

 

[boisesuns]

KGhttp://www.kevingarnett.com/

CAREER HIGHLIGHTS
Eight-time NBA All-Star
2003-04 NBA MVP
Six-time All-NBA
Six-time All-Defensive (2000-05)
Led league in rebounding (13.5 rpg) and double-doubles (69) in 2004-05.
The first NBA player to receive four Player of the Month honors in one season
Has earned the award eight times in his career
On Feb. 2, named Player of the Week for the fourth time of the season and the 12th time in his career
MVP of the 52nd Annual All-Star Game in 2003
Four-time All-Interview
Has recorded 14 regular-season triple-doubles and two playoff triple-doubles
A member of the gold-medal-winning USA Men's Basketball team at the 2000 Olympic Games
Named to the 1995-96 NBA All-Rookie Second Team

18 Defensive Rebounds 232 Times

22 Total Rebounds 252 Times

Total Career Points: 17,337
Total Career Rebounds: 9,567

 

[George O'Brien]

So are you ready for a signature bet?

If Garnett is not traded this summer, there is no bet.

If Garnett is traded for a more attractive package than the board proposal, you win.

If Garnett is traded for a less attractive package than the board proposal (or, miraculously, for the board proposal itself), I win.

You can name the terms.

Less attractive to whom?

For example, everyone got upset about how little the Magic got for T-Mac, it was based on the rather low opinion we had for Steve Francis and Cato. We were right, but based on stats only, the deal looked better on paper than it did on the court. Being able to include a starter of Cato's size was a huge plus, even though his value was overstated due to playing with Yao.

The Suns deal for Barkley only looked like a steal in retrospect. They gave up three guys who had been solid contributors the season before in 91-92:

Hornacek 20.1 ppg 51.2%, 43.9% for three, 5.1 assists 5 rpg in 37.8 minutes
Perry 12.3 ppg, 52.3%, 6.9 rpg in 31 minutes a game
Lang 7.7 ppg, 47.5%, 6.7 rpg in 24 minutes a game

Lang at 6"11', 245 looked like he was coming into his own, but never played at that level again. Perry got progressively worse and was never a factor in Philadelphia. Horney was the only guy in the deal that had a good career and that came mostly after he was traded to the Jazz.

So what? In both the T-Mac deal and the Barkley deal, there was an overvalued big man. I don't see anybody like that on the Suns.

 

[elindholm]

Less attractive to whom?

In case there is a dispute, we'll put it to a vote on the board. Are you in or not?

 

[Goldfield]

any trade for Garnett is going to involve some SERIOUS salary shedding. Marion/Kurt/Barbosa would most likely be shipped out, giving us the look of a revolving door team (much like Dallas).

Marion/KT/James Jones and 2 first rounders was my idea.

Minny gets 2 bigs(one all-star)and an up and comming 6'8" shooter with D. Pluss the 2 draft picks gives them optimism for the future to sell to the fans.

The Suns get a superstar who will put the team over the top in wins & Salary. He brings tuffness, rebounding, defence. A HALF COURT GAME

The Suns would lose some depth but would be a MUCH better team and it would take alot of pressure off Nash.

 

[elindholm]

Marion/KT/James Jones and 2 first rounders was my idea.

The Marion/Barbosa/picks package would be more attractive to Minnesota. They have no interest in Thomas at this stage, and Barbosa is much more appealing than Jones. The only reason they might want Thomas would be if they could convince Phoenix to take on a bad contract (most likely Hudson) in return.

 

[Goldfield]

Marion/KT/James Jones and 2 first rounders was my idea.

Minny gets 2 bigs(one all-star)and an up and comming 6'8" shooter with D. Pluss the 2 draft picks gives them optimism for the future to sell to the fans.

The Suns get a superstar who will put the team over the top in wins & Salary. He brings tuffness, rebounding, defence. A HALF COURT GAME

The Suns would lose some depth but would be a MUCH better team and it would take alot of pressure off Nash.

Trade works at realgm

 

[Goldfield]

The Marion/Barbosa/picks package would be more attractive to Minnesota. They have no interest in Thomas at this stage, and Barbosa is much more appealing than Jones. The only reason they might want Thomas would be if they could convince Phoenix to take on a bad contract (most likely Hudson) in return.

But the trade also has to make sence for the Suns.
Adding Garnett and not moving KT makes a huge log jam at forward/center spot.

It wouldnt make sence to have Amare, KT, Diaw, Garnett, Grant. Pluss if we didnt send KT the Suns would be WAY over the cap. I dont see Sarver going way over the cap to win.

KT still has some value Bigs allways do. Minny adds like 17pts and 11 rebounds in stats pluss 2 first rounders. Not to mention KT's contract is up in two years giving the Wolves cap relief a year earlier...

I think it makes sence for both teams.

 

[Cheesebeef]

But the trade also has to make sence for the Suns.
Adding Garnett and not moving KT makes a huge log jam at forward/center spot.

It wouldnt make sence to have Amare, KT, Diaw, Garnett, Grant. Pluss if we didnt send KT the Suns would be WAY over the cap. I dont see Sarver going way over the cap to win.

KT still has some value Bigs allways do. Minny adds like 17pts and 11 rebounds in stats pluss 2 first rounders. Not to mention KT's contract is up in two years giving the Wolves cap relief a year earlier...

I think it makes sence for both teams.

The deal you proposed above makes NO SENSE for Minnesota. KT on a completely rebuilding team (like Minny would be) would be USELESS - Barbs and the picks and Marion is the only way Minny does that deal - 1) because Jame Jones hasn't proven ANYTHING - Barbs is young, the fastest guard in the league and has wowed people in the playoffs - period - he has to be in the deal.

As far as a log jam at PF and Center and that being a problem with us... Brian Grant creating a logjam? Are you kidding me? The only place Grant creates a problem is sitting in Amare's seat on the bench when Amare come sout of the game. With Amare, Diaw, Garnett and KT we have 4 guys who will man the entire frontcourt, allowing us to go big or small. I mean, God forbid the Suns ACTUALLY have depth with big guys with KT and Diaw coming off the bench - or more than likely, just KT coming off the bench because Amare, Diaw and Garnett would start

Minnesota would laugh at Marion, KT, JJ and the picks - and as well they should - like I said, IF they decide they have to trade Garnett, they're gonna be looking for Barkley-type deal = an established star (Marion = Horny), an up and comer (Barbosa much > Tim Perry and picks (Two draft picks, one likely lotto pick). They're not gonna get a better offer than that from anyone - especially considering that the Hawks are STILL going to suck next year and next year's draft is shaping up as one of the best in a very long time with all the Florida kids going back to school and with Oden and OJ Mayo likely coming out, not to mention whoever else shoots out fo nowhere like Tyrus Thomas did this year.

 

[Goldfield]

The deal you proposed above makes NO SENSE for Minnesota. KT on a completely rebuilding team (like Minny would be) would be USELESS - Barbs and the picks and Marion is the only way Minny does that deal - 1) because Jame Jones hasn't proven ANYTHING - Barbs is young, the fastest guard in the league and has wowed people in the playoffs - period - he has to be in the deal.

As far as a log jam at PF and Center and that being a problem with us... Brian Grant creating a logjam? Are you kidding me? The only place Grant creates a problem is sitting in Amare's seat on the bench when Amare come sout of the game. With Amare, Diaw, Garnett and KT we have 4 guys who will man the entire frontcourt, allowing us to go big or small. I mean, God forbid the Suns ACTUALLY have depth with big guys with KT and Diaw coming off the bench - or more than likely, just KT coming off the bench because Amare, Diaw and Garnett would start

Minnesota would laugh at Marion, KT, JJ and the picks - and as well they should - like I said, IF they decide they have to trade Garnett, they're gonna be looking for Barkley-type deal = an established star (Marion = Horny), an up and comer (Barbosa much > Tim Perry and picks (Two draft picks, one likely lotto pick). They're not gonna get a better offer than that from anyone - especially considering that the Hawks are STILL going to suck next year and next year's draft is shaping up as one of the best in a very long time with all the Florida kids going back to school and with Oden and OJ Mayo likely coming out, not to mention whoever else shoots out fo nowhere like Tyrus Thomas did this year.

I agree Barbosa would be alot more attractive to minny.

I dissagree that Jame Jones hasn't proven ANYTHING, he has averaged 9.3 ppg, 3.4 rpg comming off the bench. Not a star in any sence but he is a solid player who is tall, a good shooter, and does play solid D.

KT would be nice to bring off the bench for the Suns, I just dont see Sarver spending the money to do it.

If it is an absolute deal breaker for Minny to include Barbs I would still do it to get Garrnett in a heartbeat.

But you cant offer top dollar right off the bat. I dont think my idea is way off base. I just hate to trade one of the only guys on our team that takes the ball to the hole(Barbosa). But all in all Garrnett outways that...

 

[Evil Ash]

Trade works at realgm

True but would they prefer a package of Barbosa/Marion/2 bad draft picks in what is considered to be a fairly mediocre draft and face him regularly in the Western Conference or have the Tyson Chandler/NY draft pick/ fill-ins to make the salary cap work and only have to face him a few times a year because he's in the Eastern Conference?

Unless he makes a demand to be traded to a Western Conference team, the T'wolves would lean toward the latter