Marion

[cly2tw]

For the same reason you want to trade away Marion, why would another team want to get him? Marion is not a franchise player, i.e. not a player you build a team around him. He is the best utility player of all time, but it'd be stupid if you commit 14mil salary cap to such a player first without knowing who the go-to guys on your team is.

As for getting KG, it's no way Minny aim at getting Marion as their main goal in the deal. They'd prefer another franchise player first. If not possible, they'd be more interested in the route Suns went in the Marbury to Knicks deal, salary cap and picks. So, they want to dump some bad contracts like those of Blount, Hudson, Hassel on us.

Since they have McCant, they don't nec. want LB. I'd see, thus, a trade like KG, Blount, Hassel for Marion, KT, Bell, plus the two picks be discussed. Even, then the Minny team after the trade is still a desaster.

 

[Cheesebeef]

True but would they prefer a package of Barbosa/Marion/2 bad draft picks in what is considered to be a fairly mediocre draft and face him regularly in the Western Conference or have the Tyson Chandler/NY draft pick/ fill-ins to make the salary cap work and only have to face him a few times a year because he's in the Eastern Conference?

Unless he makes a demand to be traded to a Western Conference team, the T'wolves would lean toward the latter

there's no way Chandler/NY Draft pick and filler beats our deal and there's no way they'd take that anyway - either Deng or Gordon is gonna be the centerpiece of any KG deal along with that pick - not Chandler is who is absolute garbage and injury prone.

That being said, Deng/Gordon and the Knicks pick and say a Duhon is probably more attractive than our package and gets him out fo the West - so they could make that deal.

It'll be really interesting to see what happens with Garnett this summer - does Minny get Stephon back? Does Garnett get traded... and if so... to whom?

 

[TBaslim]

I've been amazed at the Marion hostility, considering all of the elements he brings to this team.

Marion's our Herb Sendek...completely under-appreciated, until he is replaced by someone that proves how valuable he was.

Agreed 100%

 

[Nasser22]

I think you guys are offering way too much for a guy who will be past his prime. There's no way the Suns trade away so much and the Bulls would be stupid to trade away half of their very good young group. I'd love to have Garnett but not for as much as you guys are offering for him. I think we'll have a championship team next year. There's no need to screw that up, lose a key part of the team and our depth which is really important with Nash getting older and having back problems and not being sure about Amare and Kurt's age if he isn't traded.

 

[Goldfield]

Marions stats are allmost identical to KG's, He is an Allstar(although IMO Garrnett bring alot more than stats). He was mentioned as an MVP canidate.

Adding two draft picks to that pluss a solid Big in KT pluss JJ = 5 players none of whom are garbage throw in's...

Minny is at a point where they need to make a change. I think the Suns could make a deal that would get it done.

IMO Marion/KT/JJ/2picks would be ideal. But if it had to be Barbosa instead of JJ & KT I would still do it.

 

[Goldfield]

I think you guys are offering way too much for a guy who will be past his prime. There's no way the Suns trade away so much and the Bulls would be stupid to trade away half of their very good young group. I'd love to have Garnett but not for as much as you guys are offering for him. I think we'll have a championship team next year. There's no need to screw that up, lose a key part of the team and our depth which is really important with Nash getting older and having back problems and not being sure about Amare and Kurt's age if he isn't traded.

I think they would to win a championship. Nash isnt getting younger. The window doesnt stay open long.

KG isnt getting younger either but with Amare along side of him He wouldnt HAVE to be amazing everynight.

KG & Amare in the same frountcourt would be even better than the Spurs twin towers...

Diaw at SF would work out great. We would be a very good rebounding team. And also have a half court O.

 

[elindholm]

Trade works at realgm

RealGM checks salary cap rules, nothing more. It has nothing to do with whether the trade is balanced from a talent standpoint. I'm amazed by how many people don't understand this.

 

[elindholm]

True but would they prefer a package of Barbosa/Marion/2 bad draft picks in what is considered to be a fairly mediocre draft

The proposal that discussion on this board has focused on is Marion, Barbosa, and the two Joe Johnson picks. One is the #21 pick of this summer's draft, and the other is Altanta's pick next summer.

 

[Nasser22]

Beerz, I think we'd have a better chance winning with the team we got with all the depth and the Nash, Bell, Marion, Amare, Diaw line-up would be great with Kurt backing them up. If only we could get a good, experienced back-up point guard to back up Nash.

 

[Skkorpion]

Beerz, I think we'd have a better chance winning with the team we got with all the depth and the Nash, Bell, Marion, Amare, Diaw line-up would be great with Kurt backing them up. If only we could get a good, experienced back-up point guard to back up Nash.

I agree, with one exception: Amare is done. Get over it. And while we are at it, Kevin Garnett has never run the floor, so how do you teach a 30 year old to change his game?

 

[Nasser22]

Umm, no...Amare isn't done. He'll be fine. They said his surgery wasn't as serious and I think after a whole summer of rehab he'll be doing alright. Then add in his improved shooting.

 

[Maximus]

Phoenix Suns
LEADERS
PTS/G
S Marion
21.8

AST/G
S Nash
10.5

REB/G
S Marion
11.8

MIN/G
S Marion
40.3

BLK/G
S Marion
1.7

STL/G
S Marion
2.0

'nuff said.

 

[Gaddabout]

KT has two more years topping out at $8 mil. That's not a bad contract, and he's still reasonable healthy. If the Suns thought they were getting a legitimate 4/5 in return, KT might be somewhat attractive to another team.

I still think some team would offer more than what the Suns had. I don't know which one, but I believe an available Garnett would make plenty of teams up the ante.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I agree, with one exception: Amare is done. Get over it. And while we are at it, Kevin Garnett has never run the floor, so how do you teach a 30 year old to change his game?

Jeez Skkorp - the guy's DEFINITELY not gonna be the same player next year and probably never will be the dominant, legendary player he was going to be, but you're a fool if you think he's just flat out DONE. If an older guy like Kidd could come back from this surgery and a total schmuck like Zach Randolph can comeback and play decently after this surgery, then a guy with his head screwed on straight, and with more drive than any Sun I can ever remember, can certainly do the same.

He'll still be an above average player who explodes occassionally - never what he was, but he'll still be a player to be reckoned with and anyone who thinks otherwise just WANTS him to fail for whatever reason.

I do believe that anyone who thinks he'll be AMARE next season has their head buried in the sand, but anyone who thinks he's completely done is just as naive.

As far as KG running the break - the guy used to run all the time when he was in his youth and he actually had people to play with and even when Sam was running the show. Besides, you don't think a player of KG's magnitude can learn new tricks while watching something as successful as our attack?

 

[Nasser22]

Well, i'll continue to be optomisitc because if I think of Amare not playing like Amare it'll make me cry. So...Amare WILL be as dominant and he will dunk over KG when we play Chicago. :-D

 

[George O'Brien]

I think the most likely move would be a deal that involved KG and Jermaine O'Neal. O'Neal's name has come up as possibly on the market and is only 28.

Jermaine O'Neal $18.6 next season
6-11 PF from Eau Claire (HS)
20.1 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 2.6 apg in 35.3 minutes

Kevin Garnett $20
6-11 PF from Farragut Academy (HS)
21.8 ppg, 12.7 rpg, 4.0 apg in 39.0 minutes

If the Pacers include a Fred Jones or the like and picks, this looks more like what I would expect the Wolves to covet.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is this a better deal that one involving draft picks? That's hard to say since you can't tell until the picks are used. Is it better or worse than a deal involving Marion, Barbosa, and the picks? That is too subjective for me to try to bet.

 

[hcsilla]

Is it better or worse than a deal involving Marion, Barbosa, and the picks?

Definitely worse. You can debate if Marion or O'Neal is better but the package of Barbosa, the Lakers pick and 2007 ATL's pick is worth much more than zero.

Edit: Probably your offer was O'Neal, young talent, draft picks for KG.

Although Fred Jones can't be traded this summer since he is a RFA if the Pacers' offer is O'Neal, Granger and a 1st rounder that is definitely comparable to Suns-elindholm's offer.

 

[elindholm]

I agree that a Garnett/J. O'Neal trade seems possible. However, O'Neal has only a single advantage over Marion: height. They are basically the same age, Marion is much healthier, Marion is a better rebounder, and Marion shoots a much higher percentage. In fact O'Neal's FG% is surprisingly low for an allegedly dominant power player. Oh, O'Neal is a somewhat better shot blocker, so he has that advantage.

Tell you what. For the purposes of the bet, I'm willing to stipulate that a package of O'Neal, Jones or a "comparable" player, and at least one lottery pick is better than Marion/Barbosa/lottery pick. (I think we'd agree that the #21 pick in this draft isn't of enough value to make a huge difference one way or the other.) I'm not sure I actually believe that -- for instance, I'd be horrified if the Suns traded their package for the Pacers group -- but I'll agree to call the Pacers package superior for these purposes.

 

[Evil Ash]

True but would they prefer a package of Barbosa/Marion/2 bad draft picks in what is considered to be a fairly mediocre draft

The proposal that discussion on this board has focused on is Marion, Barbosa, and the two Joe Johnson picks. One is the #21 pick of this summer's draft, and the other is Altanta's pick next summer.

Ah now that makes things different. I misinterpreted then. Then yes, we'd possibly have a shot at him if they are willing to listen to proposals to Western Conference teams

However, I'm guessing it will be a similar situation to Shaq a couple of years ago. They'll trade him but only to an Eastern Conference team

 

[George O'Brien]

Definitely worse. You can debate if Marion or O'Neal is better but the package of Barbosa, the Lakers pick and 2007 ATL's pick is worth much more than zero.

My contention is that Marion is worth a lot more to the Suns than he does to other teams due to the Suns' style. If I'm wrong and the Suns can get KG for Marion, Barbosa, and picks, then I'm wrong and I owe Eric a pint or dinner or whatever. But if there is some other deal for KG, deciding that the deal is worse requires an objective valuation of Marion and Barbosa. Voting on it doesn't make it any more objective.

 

[Chaplin]

I agree, with one exception: Amare is done. Get over it. And while we are at it, Kevin Garnett has never run the floor, so how do you teach a 30 year old to change his game?

Skkorp, your the owner of this board, and you STILL don't understand the situation regarding Stoudemire?

 

[Goldfield]

RealGM checks salary cap rules, nothing more. It has nothing to do with whether the trade is balanced from a talent standpoint. I'm amazed by how many people don't understand this.

Of course. It just makes it nice to know that it works salary wise...

 

[Joe Mama]

I agree, with one exception: Amare is done. Get over it. And while we are at it, Kevin Garnett has never run the floor, so how do you teach a 30 year old to change his game?

please, I don't think Amare Stoudemire will ever be as athletically gifted as he was before the surgery, but to say he's done is ludicrous. Jason Kidd looks great, and even Chris Webber is an adequate player now. By all accounts their knees were 10 times the mess that Amare Stoudemire's were, and they are 10 years older than him.

Next year Amare Stoudemire will be a borderline All-Star at the least.

I also have to wonder what Kevin Garnet you've been watching. The guy can run the floor as well as about any big man in the game. Besides, if Kurt Thomas can learn to hang with this team, so can KG. He's not going to be Shawn Marion on the fast break, but he makes up for the difference and then some everywhere else. Defensively there is no comparison between KG and Shawn Marion.

As far as Minnesota's interest in Shawn Marion... I can honestly understand questioning this part of a possible trade. I can't imagine Minnesota wanting to hold on to Shawn Marion. IF Minnesota will actually trade KG to Phoenix I think it's got to be part of a bigger deal where Shawn Marion ends up somewhere else and Minnesota gets more building blocks (draft picks and good, young players).

If a deal with Indiana would bring Jermaine O'Neal and not much else back to Minnesota, the Timberwolves might as well just stay with KG. Jermaine O'Neal makes almost as much as Kevin Garnett, and he's played a total of 96 games in the last two seasons (44 & 51). Frankly, I think he's one of the more overrated players in the league.

If Kevin Garnett has any say he would surely want to go to the Phoenix Suns over Chicago or Indiana. Oh yeah, I forgot to say that the Chicago Bulls could put together the most attractive package for KG, and he is from that area. I'm not sure they would do it or KG would want to go there though because even with him they wouldn't be a championship contender. If KG's ultimate goal is to win a championship phoenix makes the most sense.

That said, KG doesn't have the ultimate say in his destination. This isn't Shaquille O'Neal's situation from a couple years ago. KG has 3 years left on his current contract. Of course it would deter trade partners if he was openly complaining about going to particular team or teams.

Lastly, everything I've seen and read on this draft indicates that it's a deep one. There isn't a lot of top-notch quality at the top of the draft, but good, solid players should be found throughout. The #21 taken this year's draft will be worth the same as it is an almost any other draft. I think Atlanta will improve next year, but I still see them as a lottery team (top 10 pick). The next year's draft should have some damn good quality at the top. That pick has to look good.

For the record, I don't think there's a great chance of the Phoenix Suns pulling off a trade for KG. I don't think there's a great chance he'll be traded. If it is a possibility that they could get him for Shawn Marion, Barbosa, and some draft picks I would say it's a no-brainer though.

Joe

 

[Savage58]

Stupid thread, Matrix is a badass, always has been, if you got a problem with his game you're not paying attention, he's great defensively and can score when he wants too, his outside shot is something to be desired at times, but he can still hit it.

He showed what he can do in game 7 vs Kobe and then again in game 3 the other night vs the Clippers, oh yeah he's worthless, @#%@#$ narrow sited.

While we're at it lets trade Stat and Nash hell lets just trade the franchise to LA so we can really hate him. Idiotic thread.

 

[elindholm]

Stupid thread, Matrix is a badass, always has been, if you got a problem with his game you're not paying attention, he's great defensively and can score when he wants too, his outside shot is something to be desired at times, but he can still hit it.

Do you understand the concept that even if a player is good, someone else might be better?