Here's your Suns first round pick in 2005 draft...

[Cheesebeef]

no we are talking about a player youve never watch play.

we're talking about a WHITE PF - I don't need to watch him play.

 

[Mulli]

Bill Wennington.

Will Purdue and Jon Koncak were much better than Bill.

okay not really.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

This thread makes me want to:

Who cares if he's white? If he can play...really, who cares?

Agree. With that said though, if he can play decently I am scared. The Suns have a history of passing on better athletes/players for a white player that can hold his own.

It is something subconscious most likely, but it is a trend for sure.

 

[corrado]

MaoTosiFanClub

My whole point is this. You cannot pass judgement on whether a player (be it a lotttery pick or a later 1st round pick) will or will not live up to expectations after just ONE year of getting playing time in the NBA and after coming off a major injury the year before. Do you agree with that statement?

If you do let's wait and see how much Collision improves over the next year or two before making a statement that he didn't make it in the NBA.

If you don't agree with that statement then I believe you are being very narrow-minded and short-sighted and I rest my case.

 

[Cheesebeef]

My point exactly. They must all suck at basketball, so why bother ever drafting one?

what's you point exactly? I'm talking about a type of player who has consistently failed in the NBA - you're talking about the unknown - how are they the same?

 

[Cheesebeef]

this thread's fun.

 

[Mulli]

this thread's fun.

I agree.

 

[Kolo]

this thread's fun.

I wish Jimmy the Greek was an ASFN'er.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

If you don't agree with that statement then I believe you are being very narrow-minded and short-sighted and I rest my case.

I agree with the statement. However, it isn't the dead beat truth. Look at Zarko.

Of course, by making a statement like this I believe you are being very narrow-minded and short-sighted and I rest my case.

 

[Cheesebeef]

is anyone else going to actually watch tonight's Game?

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

My whole point is this. You cannot pass judgement on whether a player (be it a lotttery pick or a later 1st round pick) will or will not live up to expectations after just ONE year of getting playing time in the NBA and after coming off a major injury the year before. Do you agree with that statement?

If you do let's wait and see how much Collision improves over the next year or two before making a statement that he didn't make it in the NBA.

If you don't agree with that statement then I believe you are being very narrow-minded and short-sighted and I rest my case.

I should have amended my comment from "never make it in the NBA" to "never will be anything more than an average NBA player." I'm sure he will improve some with time but his lack of range, ball handling skills, and athleticism will prevent him from ever becoming a great or even good modern NBA power forward. And when you're drafted in the lottery those will always be the expectations.

The point remains though that Collison was about 100x the collegiate player that Lee was. And since I don't think Collison will ever be anything special in the NBA, I find it hard to believe that Lee somehow will.

 

[Chaplin]

Tom Chambers is pounding his keyboard reading this thread.

 

[Chaplin]

is anyone else going to actually watch tonight's Game?

Besides you? No.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

is anyone else going to actually watch tonight's Game?

I have to work it - not too happy about it.

 

[elindholm]

Couldn't that be one of the reason WHY those 5 teams won those titles? BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE BIG WHITE SOFTIES in the game and WE'RE TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THOSE TEAMS THAT DID?

Do you think putting things all in caps makes your point stronger? It doesn't.

Yes, athleticism rules in today's NBA. No argument there. And it does seem that, as a trend, black players tend to have better developed athleticism. Maybe that's because the inner-city culture rewards athleticism more than "skills," I don't know. But I agree that, among the sample of NBA players, the black players tend to be more athletic than the whites.

However, it's going quite a bit beyond that to state point-blank that white athletic players don't exist, or that they don't exist at certain positions. I think you're narrowing the discussion to PFs because it's easier for you, but how about Ginobili? No one can claim that he's not an athlete. Chambers was a bit too long ago, but it's hard to argue with him as an example; his game would translate today just fine. Troy Murphy isn't on a good team -- yet -- but he strikes me as a pretty athletic power forward who could get the job done in the playoffs. Don't write Nowitzki or Gasol off yet, because their careers are still getting started.

I do agree that a soft PF or C is more likely to survive in the league if he is white.

 

[Kolo]

is anyone else going to actually watch tonight's Game?

I didn't know there was one. When the Suns lost Game 5, I lost all interest in the NBA this year, at least until we draft a big soft white stiff at #21 in a few weeks.

 

[Cheesebeef]

However, it's going quite a bit beyond that to state point-blank that white athletic players don't exist, or that they don't exist at certain positions. I think you're narrowing the discussion to PFs because it's easier for you

good lord Eric - I "narrowed down the discussion to PFs" BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A PF(caps because apparently you don't get the discussion - hopefully it makes it a little CLEARER FOR YOU). I got nor problem with us drafting that PG talked about in the thread below - he's a Euro. I'd be STOKED drafting Andrew Bogut - because he's a C - but you know why I'm not talking about thsoe guys int hsi thread - because Biff from Back to the Future ISN'T A C OR A PG.

Sheesh. And again - I'm not saying they don't exist - I'm saying they don't exist on championship teams in this era - and that can't be refuted.

 

[PhxGametime]

Wow. I just read 8 pages in who knows how many minutes...

I'm not sure David Lee (although an athlete) is the defensive stopper at #21 but quite honestly, there is no defensive bigman stopper at #21 - I would more upset with Drafting Johan Petro. I'm not sure he's my favorite bigman at #21 either but he's not a scrub - he is however a better skilled Jackson Vroman or a player in the mold of Tom Gugliotta, Brian Grant, Kurt Thomas, etc. If the Suns Drafted him, IMO it'd be because he has a role on team... I believe there is a few better Prospects and IMO Drafting a wing at #21 is more likely to garner minutes than a PF but he has talent. He had 1 of the better games, I remember at the McDonalds recently (now what 4 years ago)...


Most of the members here, think there won't be TALENT at #21, so I'm not sure why there's so an uproar for David Lee?

If the Suns, feel they have-to get a bigman and Frye, Diogu, Taft, May, Simien, etc. are off the board... who would everybody rather Draft at PF? David Lee might be the BPA, if they are off board - I like Pops Mensah-Bonsu but that could be reaching and he's more likely a better athlete than Steven Hunter but at 6'9 1/2. Only averages around 12 PTS, 6 REBS, 1.7 BLK, in around 25 minutes but man that guy is an athlete...

The Suns have worked out both Pops and David Lee...


IMO Drafting a wing is BPA but David Lee, Jason Maxiell, Pops Mensah-Bonsu, Brandon Bass, Ronny Turiaf, etc. are best on board after the top-tier.

 

[elindholm]

good lord Eric - I "narrowed down the discussion to PFs" BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A PF

Please. You're using the case of this one particular prospect to launch into an entire diatribe against white "power players." We aren't just talking about one PF, or even all PFs, and you know it.

 

[Cheesebeef]

good lord Eric - I "narrowed down the discussion to PFs" BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A PF

Please. You're using the case of this one particular prospect to launch into an entire diatribe against white "power players." We aren't just talking about one PF, or even all PFs, and you know it.

No - we're talking about WHITE POWER FORWARDS - why the hell would I bring up Ginobli in a convo about white power players? Besides the fact - again - that Ginobli is Argentinian and definitely not WHITE.

 

[Chaplin]

No - we're talking about WHITE POWER FORWARDS - why the hell would I bring up Ginobli in a convo about white power players? Besides the fact - again - that Ginobli is Argentinian and definitely not WHITE.

I'm trying to understand the reasoning why you discount white power forwards because they're right (and for no other reason), but yet you don't discount players in other positions because they're white. What's the difference?

 

[Cheesebeef]

For a White Guy/Black Guy comparison, he plays a bit like Al Harrington.

here's what I don't get - for a white/white guy comparison he plays Mark Madsen but for a White Guy/Black Guy comparison he plays like Al Harrington.

Uh - so Mark Madsen and Al Harrington are comparable? How are those two comparison compatible with another?

Clif - what color is the sky in your world?

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm trying to understand the reasoning why you discount white power forwards because they're right (and for no other reason), but yet you don't discount players in other positions because they're white. What's the difference?

performance - period.

 

[PhxGametime]

David Lee also averaged over 2 assists and that's right there with Andrew Bogut and Brad Miller in College... if Lee can be anything at PF with his passing ability as these 2 are at F/C... averaged 9 rebounds, didn't need to average that many points with an explosive team like Florida's, over 1 steal a game (which I like PF's to be set at)... he's really not that bad of an athlete and I know he may not be my choice but a few of you have mentioned the Suns won't get much help at #21 in Draft period...

Lee may be BPA at PF in the Draft, Jason Maxiell is the next BPA available and is a strong shot-blocker but the guy is like 6'7 (can run the court though and is a better athlete)...

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm trying to understand the reasoning why you discount white power forwards because they're right (and for no other reason),

and it's not for no other reason - it's because they are USELESS in the NBA for any team that hopes to win a title.